Mega Thread The 2017 'Buckley's Chances' Thread

[Bad Horse]

We'll hold you to that.

You even think about picking Mayne for anything other than cleaning out the pisser, and the screens will be going up...

To Mayne I will always say neigh.

 

[jadami1973]

Again - you use the 6 years as a crutch, as if injuries, rebuilding and inexperience, etc. don't count.
The sample size is only relevant if these variables are relatively stable.
That's why other metrics are needed to assess progress.

But let's just agree to disagree.

so when we have all those aligned like an eclispe or hayley's comment will you accept the facts ?
Fact all team have injuries
Fact all teams have inexperience ( Do you not recall many of our experienced players moved on)
Fact all teams re-build or sort of (Geelong) but Wells, Mayne etc rebuild ?????
Do teams rebuild after losing 3 games the previous season ? Do they rebuild after winning a flag or do they supplement their list for sustained success like Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney all have done.
We were in the same position with a younger team.

The game changes that is a fact but we have been left behind and we won't get ahead of the curve without some fresh eyes. Buckley has had his chance the list is his, he built this list over the last 6 seasons.

Fact, the rebuild was forced and not required but has failed as their is a total lack of direction and appears to be lingering on a downward curve. Alarmingly there is no realization of where the list is at on the "premiership clock" either.

 

[jadami1973]

Sorry - the regression argument is the way people justify that Bucks can't coach. I am simply pointing out that no one complained about Buck' performance in the 2 years we made finals. So by definition 6 is not the relevant number 4 is, if you genuinely wish to link regression as a basis for bagging Bucks as a coach.
You can't NOW choose to bag him for the years we made finals - that's adsurd.

Fact is we wasted those years and should have been challenging not just making finals. His finals record in the 4 we've played under him is 1-4. We were down in that final at half time too and just pulled it out. So to win a flag under him is crazy.

 

[jadami1973]

We are already pumping games into young players, the question is if we lost to Hawthorn do we bother bringing back guys like Varcoe and Wells into the team?

If Buckley starts putting his own interest's ahead of the club, punting on short term instead of long term, and it isn't working than by all means move him on....but he simply isn't doing that. Since he took over he has erred on the long term side instead of short term, many supporters think we should have been more aggressive in 13-14 period and tried to top up instead of moving on guys like Dawes and Thomas etc.


?? You are quoting wins.

Did we improve from 2010 to 2011? We won more games.

Hawthorn have regressed, the fact that they were still better than all the other sides is a different story...after Clarkson built the side and took them to the peak, they have regressed...it is what happens. Clarkson was masterful with his build and ability to sustain it, but powerless to stop the inevitable regression.

Is Simon Goodwin some master coach, or did he just get his timing right??

Ditto Beveridge

 

[10571z]

so when we have all those aligned like an eclispe or hayley's comment will you accept the facts ?
Fact all team have injuries
Fact all teams have inexperience ( Do you not recall many of our experienced players moved on)
Fact all teams re-build or sort of (Geelong) but Wells, Mayne etc rebuild ?????
Do teams rebuild after losing 3 games the previous season ? Do they rebuild after winning a flag or do they supplement their list for sustained success like Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney all have done.
We were in the same position with a younger team.

The game changes that is a fact but we have been left behind and we won't get ahead of the curve without some fresh eyes. Buckley has had his chance the list is his, he built this list over the last 6 seasons.

Fact, the rebuild was forced and not required but has failed as their is a total lack of direction and appears to be lingering on a downward curve. Alarmingly there is no realization of where the list is at on the "premiership clock" either.

We are in no mans land with no clear plan. If greenwood, Mayne, wells, aish ect weren't on our list we would be in the same position with close to 2 million in spare salary cap room. We have no direction. Just seem to be interested in everyone who is available every off season.

 

[jadami1973]

In 2012 we lost Luke Ball and Krak to ACLs, missed a dozen players to major injury throughout the season, still had a patch where we won 10 games in a row and lost a prelim final by 4 goals.

Naturally, when you take on a job in which a team has come off a Premiership and a Grand Final loss, the only way is down.

Do people who use this "nothing but decline" argument so vehemently not accept that?

What exactly was he supposed to do? Top up the list forever?

I think Nathan's biggest crime was taking on the job in the first place.

For some, it was always going to be a no-win situation.

So now he has his own team he seems to have shone. Even if you take out the first 2 years and look at the next 4 yes, 4 years where does the decline end and the improvement start !! You can sell potential and future all you like but the future becomes the present and that ship has sailed

 

[Chameleon75]

https://www.zerohanger.com/waldron-...693/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=AFL+Memes

Doubt Bucks ends up at the Suns...

But how do people rate Eade back at Collingwood in some capacity?

Having Eade back at the pies in the football dept might help secure some Vic talent away from the Suns in the same way Sos has at Carlton.

No not eade please no, I'd rather sign bucks for another 6 years than have eade anywhere near the building.

 

[whiskeytown]

No not eade please no, I'd rather sign bucks for another 6 years than have eade anywhere near the building.

Why? I agree in the sense that if we get rid of bucks we should flush out the footy dept and get fresh blood in

 

[Chameleon75]

Why? I agree in the sense that if we get rid of bucks we should flush out the footy dept and get fresh blood in

All I've heard from him at multiple clubs is excuses for why they're under performing, I'd rather someone with a track record of achievement.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

You could actually see we played crap in 2012 but our star players got us over the line many times. I remember arrogance after we won 10 in a row by the coach even though we were playing shithouse and the writing was on the wall. Once our stars fell away we are where we are today.

Games played by the following may tell a story
Johnson 8
Tarrant 12
Ball 3
Krak 3
Didak 11
This was the depth we called upon.
Wood. No need to say anything more.
Keefe. Jury was out.
Williams. Turned out alright depending who you speak to.
Yagmoor
Paine
Tom Young
Luke Rounds
Caolan Mooney
Kirk Ugle

The lowest amount to games played by a Sydney best 22 player was Mumford at 17. They used 31 players.
For Hawthorn, Hodge played 10. They used 34 players
Very few long term or persistent injuries to best 22 players for the two grand final sides.

Anyhow, none of that would matter to you because I doubt you'd consider interrupted seasons for senior players having an affect on anything other than their position on the ground.

 

[pie time]

Anyone interested in Clarkson ?

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Anyone interested in Clarkson ?

Of course but he's not interested in us. No use entertaining it.

 

[jdpie]

Of course but he's not interested in us. No use entertaining it.

Unfortunately very few senior football people are interested in the Pies whilst the CEO sits in the chair. G Wright has been in the building , via invitation, several years in a row only to walk out lamenting the lack of shift in the Pert "I this, I that" attitude. I know i keep banging on about this but without movement in that seat we are doomed to this current mire no matter who the senior coach is.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Unfortunately very few senior football people are interested in the Pies whilst the CEO sits in the chair. G Wright has been in the building , via invitation, several years in a row only to walk out lamenting the lack of shift in the Pert "I this, I that" attitude. I know i keep banging on about this but without movement in that seat we are doomed to this current mire no matter who the senior coach is.

Not surprised but also know that Wright has said he has no real affinity with Collingwood in relation to going back to work there. I've also heard that the sticking point for Wright is that the job is a move sideways rather than up. Dunno how accurate that info is, just what I'd heard.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

so when we have all those aligned like an eclispe or hayley's comment will you accept the facts ?
Fact all team have injuries
Fact all teams have inexperience ( Do you not recall many of our experienced players moved on)
Fact all teams re-build or sort of (Geelong) but Wells, Mayne etc rebuild ?????
Do teams rebuild after losing 3 games the previous season ? Do they rebuild after winning a flag or do they supplement their list for sustained success like Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney all have done.
We were in the same position with a younger team.

The game changes that is a fact but we have been left behind and we won't get ahead of the curve without some fresh eyes. Buckley has had his chance the list is his, he built this list over the last 6 seasons.

Fact, the rebuild was forced and not required but has failed as their is a total lack of direction and appears to be lingering on a downward curve. Alarmingly there is no realization of where the list is at on the "premiership clock" either.

Stated facts are fine but they are only a starting point. To analyse each one would turn this into a typical TLDNR post.
I'll work with a couple.
All teams do have injuries but they will differ in terms of position, experience and how important they are in terms of on ground leadership and effect on other positions. Comparing injury lists is futile because very few will go into detailed analysis of how each team suffers in its own way when it comes to injuries. Many of the commentators /experts won't go into it because it seems like a taboo thing to do and takes too much effort. It's also a time thing because they only have a short time to go into the details of each team.

Some sides have the luxury of replacing one soldier with another, others don't. To throw a blanket over the whole lot and blurt out the line "injury is no excuse", is stuff from another era that even the professionals won't let go of.
Injury depleted sides may win a few games against more fancied opponents but most of the time, that level performance is unsustained. If it ends up being a knock on list management, so be it.

As for your fact that the rebuild was forced and not required, whether it was required is based on opinion so it's not a fact.

 

[Spatfers]

We are in no mans land with no clear plan. If greenwood, Mayne, wells, aish ect weren't on our list we would be in the same position with close to 2 million in spare salary cap room. We have no direction. Just seem to be interested in everyone who is available every off season.

This. No plan with recruitment like Roos has said.

 

[Jafo]

For me whether we have the cattle or not is not the question. It is the direction we have taken and it's been all down hill.
We haven't played with any kind of grit or heart on a regular basis. I can't see 1) who's in our best team 2) who are the next generation coming in
3) who are the understudy forwards/defenders

There are teams that are getting the best out of their lists we are not and it's simply the coaches job to do that

I think our boys club's assistant coaches need to be upgraded- Tarks, Rocca and co. Whilst maybe good to great Clubmen, I don't think cut it in our development of players.

 

[Vicky Park]

https://www.zerohanger.com/waldron-...693/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=AFL+Memes
But how do people rate Eade back at Collingwood in some capacity?

Having Eade back at the pies in the football dept might help secure some Vic talent away from the Suns in the same way Sos has at Carlton.

I'd like Eade back. In his first two years with us, he was the Director of Coaching (before the role was abolished) and mentoring Bucks. Coincidence that we made the finals in those two years? Probably, as I know most attribute that to the lingering influence of MM and the fact that we still had most of our premiership players.

Then Eade joined the merry-go-round of heads of our football department following Walsh's departure.

What position would he take up?

 

[Vicky Park]

Can anyone confirm if Bucks actually said - on radio, at a presser, anywhere? - that he has to make his own mind up about staying on as senior coach next year?

I've seen it implied on here. If so, that is either a proud man wresting back some control of his destiny...or preparing to leave with some dignity intact.

 

[Lockyer24]

Only one debutant shows we totally overestimated where the list is at, after 5 years of being bad. Bucks and Hine will lose their jobs over this I suspect.

 

[jackcass]

This. No plan with recruitment like Roos has said.

Disagree, think we've had very clear understanding of what we've needed.

 

[jackcass]

I'd like Eade back. In his first two years with us, he was the Director of Coaching (before the role was abolished) and mentoring Bucks. Coincidence that we made the finals in those two years? Probably, as I know most attribute that to the lingering influence of MM and the fact that we still had most of our premiership players.

Then Eade joined the merry-go-round of heads of our football department following Walsh's departure.

What position would he take up?

Eade has had his time. Think we should have grabbed McCartney when the Doggies let him go.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Can anyone confirm if Bucks actually said - on radio, at a presser, anywhere? - that he has to make his own mind up about staying on as senior coach next year?

I've seen it implied on here. If so, that is either a proud man wresting back some control of his destiny...or preparing to leave with some dignity intact.

What he said on Footy Classified was that whether he stays or goes is not solely a decision for the club. He said if he felt he wasn't doing the job well and getting the best out of the players, regardless of what the club wanted, he also had a decision to make about whether he would want to continue as coach.

 

[Robroy22]

Eade has had his time. Think we should have grabbed McCartney when the Doggies let him go.

But Maccas a preparer of men, not a head coach. He'd be a ripper to get though.

 

[SprooseMoose]

One thing that's been consistent in these discussions all along is that for most, if not all, of the reasons people put out their in favour of sacking Bucks, there's always several responses (often rooted in truth) about how "criticism X isn't Buck's fault, it's actually excuses 1, 2, and 3 that explain that".

Bucks has been probably the most unluckiest of coaches that I can remember, but all that means is that it's possible to come up with reasons why we shouldn't sack him, rather than the flip side, which is to come up with good coaching merit based reasons for keeping him. All these (perfectly valid) excuses do, is mask his actual coaching ability. After 6 years, we still haven't seen anything that demonstrates that he's a capable coach that deserves reappointment - only reasons that show how unfair it'd be to sack him.

Given our declining results each year, the decision on whether to keep/fire him based on thus far obscured coaching merit, is therefore a massive gamble. It could pay off or fall apart in extreme equal measures. Or it could be more of the same.