Roast "The Brownlow is just a midfielder's award"

[Some Idiot]

People pointing to Franklin in 2008 just going to ignore the fact that Gary Ablett Jr had an insane year? Was easily the deserved AFLPA winner.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Predictably, the umpires once again copping it for only awarding the medal to midfielders.

This annual commentary, of course, totally ignores the fact that EVERY individual award is now a “midfielder’s medal”. The players award, the coaches award and basically every media award too.

The umpires’ voting trends are exactly in line with the players, coaches and everybody else.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

People pointing to Franklin in 2008 just going to ignore the fact that Gary Ablett Jr had an insane year? Was easily the deserved AFLPA winner.

I’d honestly respect the Brownlow more if GAJ had won them all between 07-09 and 12-14 (okay maybe not 14 but if he hadn’t been injured…)

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Gawn should have won in ‘18. Might have done if Brayshaw hadn’t come from the clouds to pinch so many votes

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Predictably, the umpires once again copping it for only awarding the medal to midfielders.

This annual commentary, of course, totally ignores the fact that EVERY individual award is now a “midfielder’s medal”. The players award, the coaches award and basically every media award too.

The umpires’ voting trends are exactly in line with the players, coaches and everybody else.

You're making a pretty good argument we should ignore all awards in that case, seeing as they're so clearly unrepresentative.

And as someone who probably enjoys watching defenders and forwards more than anything else anyway, I'm fine with that.

 

[Tomford]

How do they judge the "fairest" component and what weighting does it have, eg 50-50? Is it if they don't give away free kicks; talk back to umpires; sledge; throw the ball back directly and not in the mud... etc?

 

[Schauermann]

People pointing to Franklin in 2008 just going to ignore the fact that Gary Ablett Jr had an insane year? Was easily the deserved AFLPA winner.

Its a bit this magical ton. Midfielders getting a lot of touches and kicking a few goals goals. Not so much romantism about it, no matter how damaging they are.

 

[Philth]

People who call for another system simply need to look at the Norm Smith for an award that is done by the media and frankly gets it right about 50% of the time.

If you look at past brownlow medalists i can think of only 2-3 in the past 20 years where you can point to the result as clearly wrong (Woewodin, Priddis). And frankly woewodin had a ripper and most likely chemically enhanced year.

Big call. care to elaborate?

 

[Philth]

Franklin should have won in 08, McLeod should have won 2001, Carey should have won a charlie at some point before 2000.

The Cooney/woewodin/priddis brownlows all jokes

I have always disagreed with this, especially the Cooney one.
Those guys played consistent good football, and I'm assuming played every game.
It's not always a superstar's award.

 

[Belnakor]

Big call. care to elaborate?

shane charter was his personal coach for that time period

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The point is, once the Brownlow is awarded, people immediately start sooking that it’s only a midfielder’s medal and nobody else can win it.

The umps get it right. The players and coaches have exactly the same take.

Or perhaps they’re all midfielder awards.

 

[hutchy31]

Don’t think the problem is that the Brownlow is a midfielders award - as others have said mids win most awards and will poll more consistently across a season. It’s the vote domination.

Sam Taylor

15

Sam Taylor

Age

24

Ht

198cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.1

4star

MG

130.5

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

2.5

1star

HB

5.5

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.5

3star

MG

60.8

1star

D

8.6

3star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.2

2star

T

2.8

5star

MG

110.8

2star

’s game v Geelong has been touted as the most obvious one. The coaches aren’t going to vote him the best player across a season but he got 9 votes that night and was clearly in the best 1-2 players if you watched any of the game. No votes in the Brownlow.

I’m sure there are other examples, particularly with forwards kicking 4-5 goals and having a dominant game but some mid gets 30+ and a goal and gets the three votes.

So my issue with the Brownlow isn’t that a midfielder wins it - that’s going to happen in every award. It’s the lack of recognition for other players within the count. There’s theoretically a chance a defender or forward wins the coaches award or the AFLPA, can’t see it happening with the Brownlow if games like Taylor’s are considered outside of the votes.

 

[Hazardinho]

"The Colemen medal is just a forwards award"

 

[SSwans2011]

"The Colemen medal is just a forwards award"

Well yeah, but the Coleman medal recognises the leading goalscorer. The Brownlow is supposed to recognise the best player that season, not the best midfielder. The two aren't really comparable.

 

[HairyO]

People pointing to Franklin in 2008 just going to ignore the fact that Gary Ablett Jr had an insane year? Was easily the deserved AFLPA winner.

Buddy kicked 5+ goals 12 times. In one game where he only kicked 3 goals he did take 11 marks.

Whats an insane year for a forward in your view?

 

[Grockadoc]

Don’t think the problem is that the Brownlow is a midfielders award - as others have said mids win most awards and will poll more consistently across a season. It’s the vote domination.

Sam Taylor’s game v Geelong has been touted as the most obvious one. The coaches aren’t going to vote him the best player across a season but he got 9 votes that night and was clearly in the best 1-2 players if you watched any of the game. No votes in the Brownlow.

I’m sure there are other examples, particularly with forwards kicking 4-5 goals and having a dominant game but some mid gets 30+ and a goal and gets the three votes.

So my issue with the Brownlow isn’t that a midfielder wins it - that’s going to happen in every award. It’s the lack of recognition for other players within the count. There’s theoretically a chance a defender or forward wins the coaches award or the AFLPA, can’t see it happening with the Brownlow if games like Taylor’s are considered outside of the votes.

This is my issue. Players don't need to get a heap of stats to influence a game. This is where defenders get the raw end. You can keep your man goalless, to very little possessions and still not get anywhere near a brownlow vote unless you also find the football. If a player against the Giants is able to keep Toby Greene goalless and sub 10 possessions, I'd say they were one of the best players on the ground, regardless of how many disposals or intercepts they got.

Sometimes having an influence on the game means taking away other players influence.

Taylor is one. Rance polled 31 votes in his career. Dylan Grimes has only polled 3 votes in his career despite towelling up Betts, Greene, C. Cameron etc several times. Robbie Tarrant has been a gun defender for a long time. 5 career votes. Jeremy McGovern has polled 15. All of these players have definitely had massively influential games, stopping opponents, but don't get rewarded. Defenders get screwed in the Brownlow. Forwards do too, but less so than defenders.

 

[HairyO]

"The Colemen medal is just a forwards award"

Leigh Matthew won one didnt he?

This is my issue. Players don't need to get a heap of stats to influence a game. This is where defenders get the raw end. You can keep your man goalless, to very little possessions and still not get anywhere near a brownlow vote unless you also find the football. If a player against the Giants is able to keep Toby Greene goalless and sub 10 possessions, I'd say they were one of the best players on the ground, regardless of how many disposals or intercepts they got.

Sometimes having an influence on the game means taking away other players influence.

Taylor is one. Rance polled 31 votes in his career. Dylan Grimes has only polled 3 votes in his career despite towelling up Betts, Greene, C. Cameron etc several times. Robbie Tarrant has been a gun defender for a long time. 5 career votes. Jeremy McGovern has polled 15. All of these players have definitely had massively influential games, stopping opponents, but don't get rewarded. Defenders get screwed in the Brownlow. Forwards do too, but less so than defenders.

Exactly. If someone kept Buddy or Kennedy goalless that is pretty much a BOG effort.

Im not sure Ben Stratton got any votes but he would routinely keep tall or small forwards quiet or goalless.

Lake was probably top 3 or 4 defenders of the last 20 years. I doubt he got any votes either.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

The point is, once the Brownlow is awarded, people immediately start sooking that it’s only a midfielder’s medal and nobody else can win it.

The umps get it right. The players and coaches have exactly the same take.

Except there's been many non-midfielders who have won the coaches award, and everyone hates the umpires. It's astonishing people hype The Brownlow up when it's judged by those who have never played or coached the game. The umpires have zero merit.

 

[Falcon3518]

Before people freak out, how many times have they got the award wrong though? Not many, of course they have sometimes but most of the time whoever they pick is correct. Dusty, Neale, Ablett, Judd, Fyfe and the 2003 tie have been correct etc. Wines was a bit iffy last year but the coaches award and MVP were all different players as well.

I think people mostly focus of the memes like Woewoden, Priddis and Cooney. But there isn’t many apart from those 3 since 2000 that didn’t deserve it.

Also buddy has around 180 career Brownlow votes I think which is 20 of all time. It is possible to poll votes as a non midfielder Richo almost won in 08 as well. It is very difficult though.

Midfielders “generally” get the award because they are actually the best players on the team, which is why they are put in the mid in the first place to influence the game the most. It doesn’t matter how good the fwd is, if they don’t get it there he has 0 impact on the game.



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[demondavey]

Before people freak out, how many times have they got the award wrong though? Not many, of course they have sometimes but most of the time whoever they pick is correct. Dusty, Neale, Ablett, Judd, Fyfe and the 2003 tie have been correct etc. Wines was a bit iffy last year but the coaches award and MVP were all different players as well.

I think people mostly focus of the memes like Woewoden, Priddis and Cooney. But there isn’t many apart from those 3 since 2000 that didn’t deserve it.

Also buddy has around 180 career Brownlow votes I think which is 20 of all time. It is possible to poll votes as a non midfielder Richo almost won in 08 as well. It is very difficult though.

Midfielders “generally” get the award because they are actually the best players on the team, which is why they are put in the mid in the first place to influence the game the most. It doesn’t matter how good the fwd is, if they don’t get it there he has 0 impact on the game.



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Richo played on the wing in 08

 

[boncer34]

Buddy kicked 5+ goals 12 times. In one game where he only kicked 3 goals he did take 11 marks.

Whats an insane year for a forward in your view?

Him saying Ablett had an insane year doesn't actually mean he thinks Franklin didn't.

 

[HairyO]

Him saying Ablett had an insane year doesn't actually mean he thinks Franklin didn't.

It was the 2nd bit where Ablett "easily deserved"...

We wont see any forward come close to what Buddy did ever again. We have seen midfielders do what Ablett did.

 

[iameviljez]

2004 is the last year that I remember a tall forward clearly being the best in the league (Tredrea and Riewoldt, 1 and 2). Deservedly midfielders since.

 

[iameviljez]

It was the 2nd bit where Ablett "easily deserved"...

We wont see any forward come close to what Buddy did ever again. We have seen midfielders do what Ablett did.

Didn’t Fev nearly do it the next year?

 

[HairyO]

Didn’t Fev nearly do it the next year?

He came close, but he didnt do it. That is correct. He is another who should have got far more Brownlow votes than he did.