Who is the best midfielder of the 21st century?

[Coach_Required]

Even though he played for Geelong peak Gary Ablett Jnr was a joy to watch. I'm just glad my club was crap when he was really dominating the comp. His first few seasons at Gold Coast were top notch as well.

 

[Cleansweep17]

I didn't say they would change the Martin results. I said that using the criteria Martin was marked on, Ablett would also have 3 Ayres awards. So he has him covered for Norm Smith's only, the same way McLeod and Hodge have Matthews covered for BOG performances in grand finals (hint: it's not enough to swing the ledger their way).

No he wouldn’t have 3. I’ll give you 08 to be nice under Martins rules for this discussion.

But if you use the 1.5x rules (which will be used indefinitely by everybody now) he has 0.

The record books will also say 0, therefore he will he known as a 0 time finals MVP, 0 times NS winner and vastly inferior to Martin in finals forever. We don’t need to discuss this any further it’s settled.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Oh right, you haven't actually seen the games and your hearing also needs checking.

You're bringing out a new treat each post.

I saw them all but he was invisible most of the time. Had to double check everything after the 07 prelim.

 

[Mr Meow]

No he wouldn’t have 3. I’ll give you 08 to be nice under Martins rules for this discussion.

But if you use the 1.5x rules (which will be used indefinitely by everybody now) he has 0.

The record books will also say 0, therefore he will he known as a 0 time finals MVP, 0 times NS winner and vastly inferior to Martin in finals forever. We don’t need to discuss this any further it’s settled.

Sadly you're not any kind of authority on the subject and by your own admission haven't even watched any of the matches.

It's been a pleasure informing you that GAJ's supreme standards in no way dropped for the 2007-2010 finals series compared to his outstanding H&A output though. It appears you genuinely weren't aware.

 

[Mr Meow]

I saw them all but he was invisible most of the time. Had to double check everything after the 07 prelim.

Yep, explaining why he was Geelong's number one ball winner, clearance winner, territory winner and creator for 4 consecutive finals series. Featuring in the best players more than any other player. Because he was invisible. This is really desperate stuff.

Look at the poll. 103 votes to 5. It is an actual landslide victory. It makes Rance vs Scarlett look close.

 

[Cleansweep17]

It's even more basic than that because the stats sheets and list of best players quite clearly shows Ablett as an ever present those finals series. It's "Did he get a medal?" (even if some medals didn't exist).

I saw the stats, he shat the bed against port in 07, got outplayed by a defender in 08, shat the bed again in 09.

I even checked some of his prime H&A games in 2008. Then remembered Cooney had a better season so I switched over to his highlights.

 

[RonnieRaven]

It’s the mayo, and it puts players above others because of it.

I mean the Dusty v Danger debate ended in 2019 when Danger s**t the bed in the prelim and Dusty won another Gary Ayers medal and Norm Smith.

Only puts players above others if the sandwich is the same.
In Dusty’s case he needs the mayo because the chicken ain’t as good as others

 

[Mr Meow]

I saw the stats, he shat the bed against port in 07, got outplayed by a defender in 08, shat the bed again in 09.

I even checked some of his prime H&A games in 2008. Then remembered Cooney had a better season so I switched over to his highlights.

So a quick stats check of just 3 finals and you didn't even watch those games? One of which he was runner up Norm Smith, one of which he received votes and was in the best players despite receiving a hard tag? So we're pretty much left marking him down for a fairly pedestrian display in a 119 point thumping (I'm not sure you can "s**t the bed" in the easiest game of the year, a week after dominating the toughest one. There wasn't a bed. Port were off camping.). BOG or close to it in 8 of 12 finals, compared to 9 of 12 for Martin 2017-2020. And this is your basis for saying one was an elite finals performer and one wasn't.

The Cooney comment shows none of this is any more than a trolling attempt anyway. Laughable.

Ablett's 10 combined Brownlow/League MVP/Coaches Awards was probably unders on what he deserved, but stands over Martin's 3. Oh but Martin played one extra outstanding final in total. That makes up for it.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Only puts players above others if the sandwich is the same.
In Dusty’s case he needs the mayo because the chicken ain’t as good as others

Sometimes chicken nuggets with sauce is better than a plain roast chicken.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Don't know how you watched Judd,but he certainly did not have a poor left foot.Was very good on the left.

The Judd I watched it was a serviceable left/ a couple freak goals on the left but was right foot dominant and there was a fair discrepancy between his right and left.
Jnr and aker types you forgot which foot was their preference.

 

[Cleansweep17]

So a quick stats check of just 3 finals and you didn't even watch those games? One of which he was runner up Norm Smith, one of which he received votes and was in the best players despite receiving a hard tag? So we're pretty much left marking him down for a fairly pedestrian display in a 119 point thumping (I'm not sure you can "s**t the bed" in the easiest game of the year, a week after dominating the toughest one. There wasn't a bed. Port were off camping.). BOG or close to it in 8 of 12 finals, compared to 9 of 12 for Martin 2017-2020. And this is your basis for saying one was an elite finals performer and one wasn't.

The Cooney comment shows none of this is any more than a trolling attempt anyway. Laughable.

Ablett's 10 combined Brownlow/League MVP/Coaches Awards was probably unders on what he deserved, but stands over Martin's 3. Oh but Martin played one extra outstanding final in total. That makes up for it.

I saw all the games, was invisible in most of them. But to be fair I was going for hawks in 08 and Dew, Hodge, Rioli stole the show.

And the Cooney comment isn’t a joke. Cooney in 08 beat prime GAJ, it’s quite concerning.

 

[RUNVS]

Even though he played for Geelong peak Gary Ablett Jnr was a joy to watch. I'm just glad my club was crap when he was really dominating the comp. His first few seasons at Gold Coast were top notch as well.

I know Geelong fans won't like to hear this but I think Gary Ablett Jnr was at his best at Gold Coast. Too bad he was in a crap team and he himself was a very crap captain.

 

[Mr Meow]

I saw all the games, was invisible in most of them. But to be fair I was going for hawks in 08 and Dew, Hodge, Rioli stole the show.

A more blatant lie there hasn't been told and goes completely against consensus views and reports of the time.

This all comes down to you being unhappy at the poll results. The people have spoken.

 

[Mr Meow]

I know Geelong fans won't like to hear this but I think Gary Ablett Jnr was at his best at Gold Coast. Too bad he was in a crap team and he himself was a very crap captain.

No there's nothing wrong with that opinion at all. He was the best player in the league 2007-2010 and then improved the 4 years after.

Starting up a new football club there are a million more factors than who is captain by the way. The coaching staff, recruitment (even with advantages) and development for starters. Michael Voss at his peak wasn't going to take that group to success.

 

[Cleansweep17]

A more blatant lie there hasn't been told and goes completely against consensus views and reports of the time.

This all comes down to you being unhappy at the poll results. The people have spoken.

I agree with the poll.

 

[RUNVS]

No there's nothing wrong with that opinion at all. He was the best player in the league 2007-2010 and then improved the 4 years after.

Starting up a new football club there are a million more factors than who is captain by the way. The coaching staff, recruitment (even with advantages) and development for starters. Michael Voss at his peak wasn't going to take that group to success.

That is true, though I do wonder if Ablett actually set Gold Coast back with his captain style which seemed to fracture the group quite a lot between the God Squad, the druggies and the normal players caught in the middle.

I definitely think Ablett in hindsight should have stayed with Geelong, and as crazy as this sounds both clubs may have been better in the long run for it.

 

[Mr Meow]

That is true, though I do wonder if Ablett actually set Gold Coast back with his captain style which seemed to fracture the group quite a lot between the God Squad, the druggies and the normal players caught in the middle.

I definitely think Ablett in hindsight should have stayed with Geelong, and as crazy as this sounds both clubs may have been better in the long run for it.

He was the best choice from what was available but like many great players over the years, he was lead by example rather than a natural leader. People have said bringing Riewoldt in after his prime would've been better, but I really doubt it. Who would've kicked it to him? GWS just did far, far better with recruitment and development and a well rounded bunch of senior players.

For footballing only/legacy reasons, yes. As evidenced by the poll people still rate him incredibly highly. But if you plugged his ridiculous Gold Coast output into 2011-2017 Geelong (the latter years the Cats would've cotton wooled him until finals) I think people would hold him in considerably higher esteem. And the Cats would probably have an extra couple of flags.

 

[RUNVS]

For footballing only/legacy reasons, yes. As evidenced by the poll people still rate him incredibly highly. But if you plugged his ridiculous Gold Coast output into 2011-2017 Geelong (the latter years the Cats would've cotton wooled him until finals) I think people would hold him in considerably higher esteem. And the Cats would probably have an extra couple of flags.

I actually think it is harder for a player to look really good in a bad team, which to me makes Ablett's performances even more impressive.

I remember Prismill looked like a very good player in the amazing Geelong team, but as soon as he moved to an average team at best he looked a lot less good.

 

[Mr Meow]

I actually think it is harder for a player to look really good in a bad team, which to me makes Ablett's performances even more impressive.

I remember Prismill looked like a very good player in the amazing Geelong team, but as soon as he moved to an average team at best he looked a lot less good.

I think so too and will happily bring up Ablett's capacity to dominate in both realms (great sides, terrible sides) but sadly for the average AFL/sports fan relevancy means a lot more. And that means continuing to play in finals or in sides that can cover your weaknesses as you age. Geelong kind of did that 2019-2020 by deploying him in a forward pocket where he could excel, but I mean he was 35 by this point. There's only so much the body can give in any position.

About Prismall (and many players) you're right. The evidence is as recent as 2022 many B grade Cats players looking great in a top team and struggling when the wheels fell off a year later. A bit of a chain reaction too I guess.

 

[bradee]

The Judd I watched it was a serviceable left/ a couple freak goals on the left but was right foot dominant and there was a fair discrepancy between his right and left.
Jnr and aker types you forgot which foot was their preference.

Agree regarding jnr and Aker they were exceptional, along with Leon Cameron and probably many others.But the Judd I saw was better than serviceable on the left.

Not as good as his right but still very good,very rarely missed targets on the left.

 

[Cleansweep17]

I actually think it is harder for a player to look really good in a bad team, which to me makes Ablett's performances even more impressive.

I remember Prismill looked like a very good player in the amazing Geelong team, but as soon as he moved to an average team at best he looked a lot less good.

Depends when Ablett went to Gold Coast their team strategy was to just give it to Ablett. Hence he racks up the stats and got noticed.

Everybody else was 18 and he was a high profile player who went to a new club which contributed as well.

Generally you are correct though.

 

[PhatBoy]

Players would disagree, it’s literally what they play for. H&A is just a qualifier, finals are where it’s at.

Ask Lachie Neale whether he’d want to trade his Brownlow for the NS in the most recent GF. Bad GF performances haunt players and great ones are where legends are made, in every sport really.

Lolllllllllllll

To paraphrase Super Hans, there mustn’t be enough space left on the internet for all your email addresses

 

[PhatBoy]

Depends when Ablett went to Gold Coast their team strategy was to just give it to Ablett. Hence he racks up the stats and got noticed.

Everybody else was 18 and he was a high profile player who went to a new club which contributed as well.

Generally you are correct though.

Probably why he was able to average 17.5 contested possessions a game there at one stage. Because they just gave him the ball. Because that’s how you get contested possessions. By your teammates giving you the ball. They make you look good. By disguising themselves as the other team. And having the ball. And fighting for it. But letting you have it. And giving it to you. It’s what made him look so good. His teammates. Giving him the ball. Not him getting it. The others just handing it to him. That’s what it was.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Probably why he was able to average 17.5 contested possessions a game there at one stage. Because they just gave him the ball. Because that’s how you get contested possessions. By your teammates giving you the ball. They make you look good. By disguising themselves as the other team. And having the ball. And fighting for it. But letting you have it. And giving it to you. It’s what made him look so good. His teammates. Giving him the ball. Not him getting it. The others just handing it to him. That’s what it was.

Lol “at one stage” talk about cherry picking stats mate. Have some credibility, what did he finish with at his time there? Bet my bottom dollar it was less.

 

[The 747]

I know Geelong fans won't like to hear this but I think Gary Ablett Jnr was at his best at Gold Coast. Too bad he was in a crap team and he himself was a very crap captain.

Yeah he became a better player at GC, which is something because he was already an amazing player. Would not have become that player if he stayed at Geelong IMO.