Which is the best team of the 21st century?

[Meteoric Rise]

Correction. No, it doesn't kill me...

Give me a Grand Final appearance once every three seasons, meaning many great wins along the way, compared with periods of two and three decades on end floating between 9th and bottom of the ladder, seeing supporters regularly abuse their teams' players and coaches alike...

But I guess I've just been very fortunate as a Collingwood supporter.

Done, you can have it. Watching your team get make every 4th Grand Final for 64 years and only win twice in that period must bring you so much more joy than watching 8 Grand Final wins and having loads of relaxing years in between to enjoy them Fadge.

 

[cliffdrabble]

Never beaten a Div 1 finals team in a Grand Final. Only Swans Magpies Saints and Port Adelaide. These are some of the weakest clubs in the comp for Grand Finals won v finals lost in the TV era. During that time Geelong have had the following chances to win Grand Finals v Div 1 finals teams, the ones who know how to get it done in September:

1967 LOST to Richmond FC

1989 LOST to Hawthorn FC

1992 LOST to West Coast Corporation

1994 Ditto

1995 LOST to Carlton FC

2008 LOST to Hawthorn FC

2020 LOST to Richmond FC

0-7 in Grand Finals v TV era Div 1 finals teams. Looks to me like the Cats are fine v clubs who aren't good at converting finals appearances into flags, but woeful against clubs that know what they are doing in September.

Hawks comfortably is the answer to this thread.

What a load of rubbish.

Geelong beat Collingwood in 2011 in what was arguably the highest quality GF in history. We were a super side that year and only beaten by one other side. Geelong. That's how good Geelong were.

Collingwood of 2011 would have thrashed the Richmond sides of 2017 onwards and I would hate to think how much Geelong of 2011 would have put Richmond to the sword.

There has been an inevitable decline in quality since 2011 with the introduction of GWS and Gold Coast. Winning a GF in 2023 was easier because of the lowering of the bar in terms of quality but harder due to the evenness of the competition.

The answer to the OP has to be Geelong in terms of quality of their team and performance. Hawthorn second on performance with Brisbane a close 3rd due to the quality of their team. A midfield of Voss, Black, Lappin all in the one team at the same time is mouth wateringly good, with only Geelong and WC since matching them.

Maybe Port, with Butters, Rozee and Horne Francis, can soon equal those 3 super midfields.

 

[Fadge]

Done, you can have it. Watching your team get make every 4th Grand Final for 64 years and only win twice in that period must bring you so much more joy than watching 8 Grand Final wins and having loads of relaxing years in between to enjoy them Fadge.

64 years? Is that immediately following Richmond's FIRST multi-decade period of complete irrelevancy when they barely won a game?

Very convenient.

 

[Fadge]

What a load of rubbish.

Geelong beat Collingwood in 2011 in what was arguably the highest quality GF in history. We were a super side that year and only beaten by one other side. Geelong. That's how good Geelong were.

When you analyse via stats sheets in the way this fellow does, there is no opportunity to appreciate the varying levels of quality across different seasons.

He likes to keep it very simple, because the alternative is not in his interests...

If Gold Coast win the flag this season, they will become the most successful Club in the history of the game using MR's Div 1/ Div 2 algorithm. It really is phenomenal and how could anyone possibly argue against that?

 

[Nugett]

Funnily enough your two critiques of the Hawthorn side would be solved if we were to pick what I think is our best team (consistent with all the other proposed teams from your other thread) as I argued in that thread before seeing this.

If you put (AA CHB) Croad at CHB (with Lake at full back) and have one or both of Sicily and Gibson as 3rd tall/rebounders, the backline is definately not undersized. Put (3xAA) Peter Everitt into 1st ruck with McEvoy as back up and the ruck division is one of the strongest.

Not a knock on McEvoy with Roughhead, he could be that 2nd Ruck option. Where you could than replace McEvoy with Sicily, playing a duel role.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

The New England Patriots

 

[Meteoric Rise]

64 years? Is that immediately following Richmond's FIRST multi-decade period of complete irrelevancy when they barely won a game?

Very convenient.

Jesus you are paranoid about my posts.

I went back to 64 years ago, 1960 to generously give you a couple of extra Collingwood Grand Finals and capture several years of the first great Richmond funk.

I was taught years ago always leave a bit for the other guy in each deal. But if this is what I get for my generosity, forget it.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

When you analyse via stats sheets in the way this fellow does, there is no opportunity to appreciate the varying levels of quality across different seasons.

He likes to keep it very simple, because the alternative is not in his interests...

If Gold Coast win the flag this season, they will become the most successful Club in the history of the game using MR's Div 1/ Div 2 algorithm. It really is phenomenal and how could anyone possibly argue against that?

My algorithm has nothing to do with being the most successful club. It just simply measures how well clubs do when they make finals.

If a club wins the flag the first time they qualify for finals they will rightly be seen as the highest performing finals team at that point with the best Grand Finals won:finals lost ratio in the competition. Only you Fadge would be petrified of that possibility.

If you want a list of the most successful clubs in the TV era it looks like this:

Premierships

12 Hawthorn
8 Richmond, Carlton
4 Geelong, West Coast, Essendon, North Melbourne
3 Collingwood, Brisbane
2 Sydney, Adelaide
1 St Kilda, Bulldogs, Melbourne, Port Adelaide

Collingwood are actually ahead of 4 other teams who have been in the competition for the entirety of the period. You should be very proud Fadge.

 

[STPer18]

Geelong.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

Brisbane Lions
Hawks
Cats
Tiges

Lakers
Cavs
Spurs
Heat
Warriors


Patriots
Chiefs
Seahawks had potential. How the * could they not hand Marshawn the ball?


Spain 2008-12
France
Barca
Milan
Man U
City
Liverpool if not for Stevan '' Skater '' Gerarrd lol

The Money Team

NHL
MLB

Both excluded.

Let's be honest that Champions League they won against Spurs was bought. Barca blowing that lead? Like they did vs Roma? Com'on man!!!!

Man City - TBD

 

[Meteoric Rise]

What a load of rubbish.

Geelong beat Collingwood in 2011 in what was arguably the highest quality GF in history. We were a super side that year and only beaten by one other side. Geelong. That's how good Geelong were.

Collingwood of 2011 would have thrashed the Richmond sides of 2017 onwards and I would hate to think how much Geelong of 2011 would have put Richmond to the sword.

There has been an inevitable decline in quality since 2011 with the introduction of GWS and Gold Coast. Winning a GF in 2023 was easier because of the lowering of the bar in terms of quality but harder due to the evenness of the competition.

The answer to the OP has to be Geelong in terms of quality of their team and performance. Hawthorn second on performance with Brisbane a close 3rd due to the quality of their team. A midfield of Voss, Black, Lappin all in the one team at the same time is mouth wateringly good, with only Geelong and WC since matching them.

Maybe Port, with Butters, Rozee and Horne Francis, can soon equal those 3 super midfields.

Yep, pretty hotly contested Grand Final when a player who has never finished top 5 B & F can slot 4 cheap uncontested goals on one leg. Fmd, you campaigners have all swallowed the hyperbole hook line and sinker.

Collingwood and Geelong of 2011 were only an average of 10-11 goals better than Richmond 2011 both when they played them and on the ladder. And Richmond 2011 had a seriously under-funded football department. So unless you think Richmond 2017 onwards is somehow worse than Richmond 2011 your so called super teams wouldn't have been doing anything other than scraping to compete with the great Tiger teams of 2017-20 who produced a Grand Final percentage of 222%.

Your conclusion that the competition has deteriorated due to the evenness of the competition is absurd. The reverse is true. the competition has become tougher to win due to:

a) more teams to compete against, and
b) all clubs having fully funded football departments, which certainly was not the case in 2011.

 

[JackFlash]

Has anyone mentioned 2000 isnt in the 21st century?
Its the final year of the 20th.

That said, having 1 great year, 3 good years and 20 bad years simply doesnt come close to the team you dont want to recognise.

Yes, but i was going to say Geelong of 2008, but they lost that 1 game in ten and the Grand Final. That said, Essendon of 2000 beats all of the past 23 years except maybe Geelong. They play a different game in the 21st century.

 

[Forward Press]

If you want a list of the most successful clubs in the TV era it looks like this:

What about most successful in the 21st century?

Which is what this thread is about.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

What about most successful in the 21st century?

Which is what this thread is about.

Grand Final victories

4 Hawthorn, Geelong
3 Richmond, Brisbane
2 Sydney, West Coast
1 Port Adelaide, Bulldogs, Melbourne, Collingwood


Grand Final victories v Div 1 finals opponents:

2 Richmond, Hawthorn, Sydney
1 Brisbane, Port Adelaide, Collingwood

Geelong conspicuously absent.


And just so Collingwood supporters don't start throwing their toys out of the cot...


Premierships

4 Hawthorn, Geelong
3 Richmond, Brisbane
2 Sydney, West Coast, Collingwood
1 Port Adelaide, Bulldogs, Melbourne

You needed me to tabulate that for you?

 

[Forward Press]

Grand Final victories v Div 1 finals opponents:

lmao

 

[Meteoric Rise]

lmao

Don't worry, Eagles won 2 v Div 1 opponents in the 90's.

 

[Forward Press]

Don't worry, Eagles won 2 v Div 1 opponents in the 90's.

lmao

Edit - you should post here Bay 13 instead of clogging up the main board with nonsense.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

lmao

Edit - you should post here Bay 13 instead of clogging up the main board with nonsense.

This is the correct place for facts imo.

You should post advice to other posters about their posting policies on Bay 13, it would go down a treat.

 

[cliffdrabble]

Yep, pretty hotly contested Grand Final when a player who has never finished top 5 B & F can slot 4 cheap uncontested goals on one leg. Fmd, you campaigners have all swallowed the hyperbole hook line and sinker.

Collingwood and Geelong of 2011 were only an average of 10-11 goals better than Richmond 2011 both when they played them and on the ladder. And Richmond 2011 had a seriously under-funded football department. So unless you think Richmond 2017 onwards is somehow worse than Richmond 2011 your so called super teams wouldn't have been doing anything other than scraping to compete with the great Tiger teams of 2017-20 who produced a Grand Final percentage of 222%.

Your conclusion that the competition has deteriorated due to the evenness of the competition is absurd. The reverse is true. the competition has become tougher to win due to:

a) more teams to compete against, and
b) all clubs having fully funded football departments, which certainly was not the case in 2011.

When we took Richmond apart in the 2018 PF, we didn't even have a key defender fit to play. That's how much quality has deteriorated since 2011. They may have been great Tiger teams and the best teams of those years but as Premierships go they were ordinary. You cannot mention them in the same breath as the Geelong sides of 2007-2011.

Geelong beat 2 of the best losing GF sides in history in 2009 in Stkilda and 2011 Collingwood. Richmond beat ordinary sides in Adelaide and GWS ffs. And Geelong in a Claytons GF due to COVID.

By your reckoning the Collingwood side of 2023 is the greatest side of all time due to tour so called 'tougher to win' statement. Sadly, I have to say we are certainly not.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

When we took Richmond apart in the 2018 PF, we didn't even have a key defender fit to play. That's how much quality has deteriorated since 2011. They may have been great Tiger teams and the best teams of those years but as Premierships go they were ordinary. You cannot mention them in the same breath as the Geelong sides of 2007-2011.

Geelong beat 2 of the best losing GF sides in history in 2009 in Stkilda and 2011 Collingwood. Richmond beat ordinary sides in Adelaide and GWS ffs. And Geelong in a Claytons GF due to COVID.

By your reckoning the Collingwood side of 2023 is the greatest side of all time due to tour so called 'tougher to win' statement. Sadly, I have to say we are certainly not.

Agree with your last statement. Your finals margins tell you that.

How much better were Richmond in 2017-20 than Richmond in 2011 on a goals per game basis? Or were Richmond 2011 better?

 

[FootyLad0]

Following the logic of not picking my own team who very clearly dominated for nearly two decades it's the Hawks.

No matter how good or bad they are they still strike fear in my heart.

 

[Warwick]

Daniher and Brown vs Franklin and Roughhead is a pretty stark difference though. Michael and Leppitsh would be utterly demolished, whereas Lake and Croad should hold their own reasonably well.

That isn't what is this thread is though is it? Aren't we comparing the best 22 you can make across all 23 years of this millenium? If that is the case I am taking hawthorn over Brisbane every day of the week. The mid and back lines wash each other out a bit, but the forward line discrepancy is pretty massive.

What total rot.

Not sure where you’re getting Daniher from anyway. The listed forward line was:

HF: Akermanis, Brown, Zorko
F: Cameron, Lynch, Bradshaw

It may not be the best, but there is no forward line “daylight” ahead of that one.

Adcock and Rich were thrown in to add some more modern players. Tbf, Rich would probably get in, put you could throw any of Pike, C. Scott, or M. Ashcroft to support Michael, Leppitsch and Andrews. Darryl White also criminally underrated.

 

[p4p1]

Grand Final victories

4 Hawthorn, Geelong
3 Richmond, Brisbane
2 Sydney, West Coast
1 Port Adelaide, Bulldogs, Melbourne, Collingwood


Grand Final victories v Div 1 finals opponents:

2 Richmond, Hawthorn, Sydney
1 Brisbane, Port Adelaide, Collingwood

Geelong conspicuously absent.


And just so Collingwood supporters don't start throwing their toys out of the cot...


Premierships

4 Hawthorn, Geelong
3 Richmond, Brisbane
2 Sydney, West Coast, Collingwood
1 Port Adelaide, Bulldogs, Melbourne

You needed me to tabulate that for you?

Are Essendon and Collingwood not div 1 opponents?

 

[p4p1]

What total rot.

Not sure where you’re getting Daniher from anyway. The listed forward line was:

HF: Akermanis, Brown, Zorko
F: Cameron, Lynch, Bradshaw

It may not be the best, but there is no forward line “daylight” ahead of that one.

Adcock and Rich were thrown in to add some more modern players. Tbf, Rich would probably get in, put you could throw any of Pike, C. Scott, or M. Ashcroft to support Michael, Leppitsch and Andrews. Darryl White also criminally underrated.

You could put either Lappin or Akermanis on a HBF. Both were AA backs.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Are Essendon and Collingwood not div 1 opponents?

Essendon at 1 Grand Final win per 8 finals losses in the TV era are a Div 1 finals club.

Collingwood, most definitely not. 2 Grand Final wins and about 50 finals losses in the TV era firmly entrenches them as a TV era Div 2 finals team. And this is a picture of what it took to get them to win the 2023 Grand Final, Preliminary final and Qualifying Final:

Had to be absolutely carried over the line...

Gimp flag.