Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread

[Aphrodite]

Never forget!






Whateley

 

[Gethelred]

Gerard Whately on AFL 360 "I expect it (Carltons development) to result in more than a handful of wins this year." He was quite positive about the Blues future. Probably makes him look a bit flakey after last years comments.

You mean, you expect people to remember what he said more than 2 minutes ago?

When you're a rent-a-quote merchant, not many expect consistency.

 

[Soapy V]

Never forget!






Whateley

Whateley is one of those people that absorbs big words to make himself seem smart. Doesn't make him intelligent. I've met a lot of people in my time that aren't great at articulating but are smarter than most. Don't rate him at all as a person or a commentator

 

[ferrisb]

Whateley has become an intelligent version of Cornes

That's an oxymoron.

As opposed to Cornes....who is a poxy moron.

 

[Arr0w]

That's an oxymoron.

As opposed to Cornes....who is just a moron.

 

[HARKER]

It's unfortunate that all we have, is to rubbish these commentators.
Not because many don't deserve it, but unfortunate that's the quality either being sought after, or simply the best that's out there.

Is it our fault that we've asked for this new 'humour' that seems to permeate into every broadcast call and on the airwaves in general?

There has to be a better way. Maybe we've all just forgotten what it can be like.

 

[JustaBattler]

He'd be around 10th imo

Cripps, Charlie, Murphy, SPS, Simpson are clearly ahead of him in 2019 (not a bad thing).

He is so far past Murphy already it is amazing. Murphy was embarrassing in JLT - in player debriefing - I wouldn't be surprised if a few players started pointing out to him his continual hospital passes are getting tiresome and his continual turnovers from basic kicks after someone else has positioned him correctly for an easy run and kick are shameful.

and no I dont buy into he is taking it 'easy' - leaders show the way they dont stuff around whilst kids are going 100% as if to mock the whole exercise.

I hope the Murphy fans are right I really do - bu I was disappointed with performance and attitude and lack of respect for his fellow players.

Walsh isn't Cripps or Charlie - he is atm a very creative and correct and careful playmaker - the more other players look to him - the better - bloke was gliding across the ground covering huge distances right till the end of the game, bobbing up everywhere - freak.

 

[Juddernaut08]

He is so far past Murphy already it is amazing. Murphy was embarrassing in JLT - in player debriefing - I wouldn't be surprised if a few players started pointing out to him his continual hospital passes are getting tiresome and his continual turnovers from basic kicks after someone else has positioned him correctly for an easy run and kick are shameful.

and no I dont buy into he is taking it 'easy' - leaders show the way they dont stuff around whilst kids are going 100% as if to mock the whole exercise.

I hope the Murphy fans are right I really do - bu I was disappointed with performance and attitude and lack of respect for his fellow players.

Walsh isn't Cripps or Charlie - he is atm a very creative and correct and careful playmaker - the more other players look to him - the better - bloke was gliding across the ground covering huge distances right till the end of the game, bobbing up everywhere - freak.

In 2018, Murphy had an interrupted season, yet still averaged 26 disposals and 4 tackles. In 2017, Murphy averaged 30 and played 22 games.

If Walsh averaged 26 disposals a game this year, it would be historic.

He is an absolute freak for a kid. But let's not get carried away to say he's better than Murphy already.

 

[JustaBattler]

In 2018, Murphy had an interrupted season, yet still averaged 26 disposals and 4 tackles. In 2017, Murphy averaged 30 and played 22 games.

If Walsh averaged 26 disposals a game this year, it would be historic.

He is an absolute freak for a kid. But let's not get carried away to say he's better than Murphy already.

Murphy gets a lot of disposals because players have been conditioned to give it to him and most of the time his execution has become a turnover. I dont like seeing it - but that is what I have been seeing - his disposal stats are not a positive for the team these days I am sorry to say.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Murphy gets a lot of disposals because players have been conditioned to give it to him and most of the time his execution has become a turnover. I dont like seeing it - but that is what I have been seeing - his disposal stats are not a positive for the team these days I am sorry to say.

He has a few glaring weaknesses, but he's also got strengths that a first player does not.

1) Ultra consistent
2) Can beat a tag
3) Although makes errors, has elite delivery to our forwards
4) Can deal with pressure moments well

 

[JustaBattler]

Fun, albeit meaningless, exercise. Assuming fit I'd very arbitrarily have top 10 rankings something like:
Cripps
Docherty
C Curnow
Weitering
Simpson
Kreuzer
SPS
Walsh
Murphy
Marchbank

Incredible that Walsh could easily be argued higher.

it is an interesting exercise especially if one 'stereotypes' different roles for different players..

An easy filter system I use is to categorise expected output in three broad categories - obviously there is overlap...and I'm not including what we dont really have atm - matchwinner.

1. Ball getter /runner
2. Key defense/attack target
3. Playmaker

Cripps ticks all three boxes for me and is top of my ratings
A fit Docherty ticks all three boxes too - but he is scratched.
Charlie has evidenced ability to be a key target AND a playmaker and hints of matchwinner
Walsh without a game played is already ticking all three boxes
SPS I have a tad below at this stage but fingers crossed.

that is my top5 rating.

Weitering could develop into a top5 player if he started actually using his kicking ability and improved running capacity to become a playmaker as well as a key defender.

 

[RedFury]

I see that Watson is now getting in on the act too.

Absolute campaigners. They'll flip-flop their attitude on us another 4-5 times over the next couple of years before we actually click and hit our straps.

 

[Gethelred]

It's unfortunate that all we have, is to rubbish these commentators.
Not because many don't deserve it, but unfortunate that's the quality either being sought after, or simply the best that's out there.

Is it our fault that we've asked for this new 'humour' that seems to permeate into every broadcast call and on the airwaves in general?

There has to be a better way. Maybe we've all just forgotten what it can be like.

My biggest issue with commentary the way it has become is that we've legitimately lost the 'expert' commentator. We still have people who sit in that seat, whose resume reads that position, but these days it's ex players, ex coaches; people with names to make you sit up and listen, opinions to share, personalities to reckon with. You don't disagree with Malcolm Blight, or Leigh Matthews; you don't get into an argument with Jonathon Brown, Matthew Richardson, Luke Darcy, Bryan Taylor, Dermott Brereton. These roles used to be filled with people who knew the game like the back of their hand, who didn't need to reach to Gridiron or Basketball for a reference but could refer to something someone did in the VFA in the 40's or in the WAFL in the 60's to describe what was happening out there; they were not necessarily players, or commentators, but were lovers of the game, fascinated by it and privileged to call it. They were articulate fans, whose game knowledge could rival historians.

Those people have been shunted aside, for the people with the connections and the profile, and have instead either turned away or become the opinion merchants we so decry, because they're as determined as they ever were. You get muppets like this on the Roar, or in the Fairfax papers; their familiarity with the game is on the level as is their affection for it, but they've been subsumed by the industry they inhabit, so in their desire to be read/spoken about they join the ranks of the Healy's, the Robinson's, the Whateley's.

It is a shame that the best AFL journalist of the past 20 years is Caroline Wilson; not because she is unworthy of that appellation, but because she doesn't discuss the football!

There's a thing called the 'White-line Wireless' for cricket, where if there's an Australian game going on overseas that those of us without foxtel would like to follow, where those calling the game do not take themselves too seriously and have exceptional knowledge of the game. I wish that there was the equivalent to that for footy, provided it could bring the community feel of the game back to the sport. It's why Marngrook's the best footy show on air, makes it feel like it's entrenched in the community rather than an amorphous corporate blob whose best attribute is that it once resembled AFL.

 

[JustaBattler]

He has a few glaring weaknesses, but he's also got strengths that a first player does not.

1) Ultra consistent
2) Can beat a tag
3) Although makes errors, has elite delivery to our forwards
4) Can deal with pressure moments well

I agree with 1 and disagree with the next three points you make - only because I haven't seen it on display for more than a year now,

 

[Opine]

I see that Watson is now getting in on the act too.

Absolute campaigners. They'll flip-flop their attitude on us another 4-5 times over the next couple of years before we actually click and hit our straps.

Are you referring to this? https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/03/11/watson-makes-big-call-on-blues/

 

[Opine]

My biggest issue with commentary the way it has become is that we've legitimately lost the 'expert' commentator. We still have people who sit in that seat, whose resume reads that position, but these days it's ex players, ex coaches; people with names to make you sit up and listen, opinions to share, personalities to reckon with. You don't disagree with Malcolm Blight, or Leigh Matthews; you don't get into an argument with Jonathon Brown, Matthew Richardson, Luke Darcy, Bryan Taylor, Dermott Brereton. These roles used to be filled with people who knew the game like the back of their hand, who didn't need to reach to Gridiron or Basketball for a reference but could refer to something someone did in the VFA in the 40's or in the WAFL in the 60's to describe what was happening out there; they were not necessarily players, or commentators, but were lovers of the game, fascinated by it and privileged to call it. They were articulate fans, whose game knowledge could rival historians.

Those people have been shunted aside, for the people with the connections and the profile, and have instead either turned away or become the opinion merchants we so decry, because they're as determined as they ever were. You get muppets like this on the Roar, or in the Fairfax papers; their familiarity with the game is on the level as is their affection for it, but they've been subsumed by the industry they inhabit, so in their desire to be read/spoken about they join the ranks of the Healy's, the Robinson's, the Whateley's.

It is a shame that the best AFL journalist of the past 20 years is Caroline Wilson; not because she is unworthy of that appellation, but because she doesn't discuss the football!

There's a thing called the 'White-line Wireless' for cricket, where if there's an Australian game going on overseas that those of us without foxtel would like to follow, where those calling the game do not take themselves too seriously and have exceptional knowledge of the game. I wish that there was the equivalent to that for footy, provided it could bring the community feel of the game back to the sport. It's why Marngrook's the best footy show on air, makes it feel like it's entrenched in the community rather than an amorphous corporate blob whose best attribute is that it once resembled AFL.

It is so damn difficult to ever disagree with you. This is an excellent perspective and summation of current state of sports journalism.

 

[Stephene]

Have been watching the footy with the sound down for years...will only turn it up if there's an injury report...with all due respect to commentators I've been around footy for longer than most of them and know enough to make my own judgement....when they stopped adding value to the broadcast that was it for me..I can see what's going on, I can read stats etc etc.... don't need inane comments and calling the wrong players...don't need a commentator if I go to the ground why do we need them to watch the same thing on TV.....only time I listen to a commentator is if I can't watch and have to listen....that's my whinge for the day

 

[Soapy V]

Are you referring to this? https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/03/11/watson-makes-big-call-on-blues/

Dickheads. We turned the corner three years ago it's just these "so called " experts that have just picked up on it. Lose a couple of games this year and they will be criticising us again. Modern day coverage of the game is pathetic and these people get highly paid as well

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Have been watching the footy with the sound down for years...will only turn it up if there's an injury report...with all due respect to commentators I've been around footy for longer than most of them and know enough to make my own judgement....when they stopped adding value to the broadcast that was it for me..I can see what's going on, I can read stats etc etc.... don't need inane comments and calling the wrong players...don't need a commentator if I go to the ground why do we need them to watch the same thing on TV.....only time I listen to a commentator is if I can't watch and have to listen....that's my whinge for the day

I do the same for Married at First Sight - I turn the sound down.......and also the picture....brightness, contrast....

 

[ESKIE]

I see that Watson is now getting in on the act too.

Absolute campaigners. They'll flip-flop their attitude on us another 4-5 times over the next couple of years before we actually click and hit our straps.

I don’t trust that worm

 

[Juddernaut08]

I agree with 1 and disagree with the next three points you make - only because I haven't seen it on display for more than a year now,

Hmmm fair enough man.

For argument's sake, pretend that it's Liam Stocker having Murphy's output in his 1st year. We'd be a lot more impressed ey?

 

[Opine]

Dickheads. We turned the corner three years ago it's just these "so called " experts that have just picked up on it. Lose a couple of games this year and they will be criticising us again. Modern day coverage of the game is pathetic and these people get highly paid as well

I can no longer get a sense of whether/when Timmy is being sincere or setting up to take the pissssss.

 

[Opine]

My biggest issue with commentary the way it has become is that we've legitimately lost the 'expert' commentator. We still have people who sit in that seat, whose resume reads that position, but these days it's ex players, ex coaches; people with names to make you sit up and listen, opinions to share, personalities to reckon with. You don't disagree with Malcolm Blight, or Leigh Matthews; you don't get into an argument with Jonathon Brown, Matthew Richardson, Luke Darcy, Bryan Taylor, Dermott Brereton. These roles used to be filled with people who knew the game like the back of their hand, who didn't need to reach to Gridiron or Basketball for a reference but could refer to something someone did in the VFA in the 40's or in the WAFL in the 60's to describe what was happening out there; they were not necessarily players, or commentators, but were lovers of the game, fascinated by it and privileged to call it. They were articulate fans, whose game knowledge could rival historians.

Those people have been shunted aside, for the people with the connections and the profile, and have instead either turned away or become the opinion merchants we so decry, because they're as determined as they ever were. You get muppets like this on the Roar, or in the Fairfax papers; their familiarity with the game is on the level as is their affection for it, but they've been subsumed by the industry they inhabit, so in their desire to be read/spoken about they join the ranks of the Healy's, the Robinson's, the Whateley's.

It is a shame that the best AFL journalist of the past 20 years is Caroline Wilson; not because she is unworthy of that appellation, but because she doesn't discuss the football!

There's a thing called the 'White-line Wireless' for cricket, where if there's an Australian game going on overseas that those of us without foxtel would like to follow, where those calling the game do not take themselves too seriously and have exceptional knowledge of the game. I wish that there was the equivalent to that for footy, provided it could bring the community feel of the game back to the sport. It's why Marngrook's the best footy show on air, makes it feel like it's entrenched in the community rather than an amorphous corporate blob whose best attribute is that it once resembled AFL.

Did you by any chance listen to SEN when it first came to air, many years ago. Although not a pure example of what you're describing above, there was a nightly segment in which a supporter of one club would call in and discuss aspects of the game with, and often against, an opposing supporter. I learned more about the context of the topic being discussed in those fan facilitated segments than the host's commentary.

 

[Gethelred]

Did you by any chance listen to SEN when it first came to air, many years ago. Although not a pure example of what you're describing above, there was a nightly segment in which a supporter of one club would call in and discuss aspects of the game with, and often against, an opposing supporter. I learned more about the context of the topic being discussed in those fan facilitated segments than the host's commentary.

When 1116SEN became what it is today in 2003, I was 14, and had a few things on my mind! Sounds like it could've been terrific, makes you wonder where it lost its way to the extent that it has.

Failing all else, I blame Kevin Bartlett.

 

[JustaBattler]

Hmmm fair enough man.

For argument's sake, pretend that it's Liam Stocker having Murphy's output in his 1st year. We'd be a lot more impressed ey?

No I wouldn't - you are looking at 'numbers' - maybe I look at games differently - effectiveness. I'd be really happy if Murph halved his possessions and doubled his effectiveness - because he has been the playmaker and still considers himself to be - but the whole team needs to learn to spread the duties- especially with talented developing players like SPS/Fisher/Walsh on hand.

The more senior the player the higher the benchmark expectations for their role. No opposition player/coach has been fooled or worried about Murphy for years - they like him having possessions for good reason and players absolutely love running through him. Pretty obvious Marc is playing with bung shoulders....good on him for carrying on and helping the Club and its kids same accolades for Thomas and Simpson. Their collective contribution shouldn't be over stated though.