Strategy The case for a third tall forward

[Forzaport]

"Not being ready for AFL football" is a kind way of Kenny saying I don't trust Shaw. The thing that made ken so good in 2013 was he backed his players in no matter what size or age they were... So mason Shaw isn't ready for AFL a 197cm 97kg man but jake Neade and Sam Colquhoun were last year?

It's a fair question and it's arguable that Shaw could play now to give us some structure.

I remember when Shaw first played last year in pre-season, he didn't get a touch - fast forward 18 months and he's put on a decent amount of weight and has hit purple form in the SANFL. With Butcher struggling for confidence and lacking the bread and butter lead up/kick goal consistency you'd think we would debut Shaw.

I wouldn't draw comparisons with Neade and Colquhoun though - totally different players, roles and positional difficulty.

 

[Seanybruz]

Freo would be playing Shaw alongside Pavlich now & definitely would've played him after Pav went down before the game yesterday. They played raw first year Apeness, he only got 5 touches but gave them a big target that demanded a defender.

I was a little worried that Shaw would ask for a trade home but I am growing concerned if we don't debut him after performing in the SANFL Freo will offer him more game time. What's the worse that could happen could he underperform worse than Mitch?

Right now on experience Butch would be my first picked even if he's a little down on form but I don't see how we'd ruin Shaw by debuting him against the Tiges or Dees.

 

[Macca19]

"Not being ready for AFL football" is a kind way of Kenny saying I don't trust Shaw. The thing that made ken so good in 2013 was he backed his players in no matter what size or age they were... So mason Shaw isn't ready for AFL a 197cm 97kg man but jake Neade and Sam Colquhoun were last year?

Shaws readiness isn't to do with his size and body size. Its to do with his two way running capability and defensive pressure.

 

[finbarr]

Shaws readiness isn't to do with his size and body size. Its to do with his two way running capability and defensive pressure.

I remember this was Neil Craig's excuse for not picking Taylor Walker. It was a load of shit.

 

[Jello_B]

How much responsibility should our forward coach Tyson Edwards take for this? Does anyone know how influential Tyson is on selections for forward line and making recommendations. I am assuming Tyson executes Kens planning but provides advice for selections.
This is not a jab at Tyson.
If we had a great forward coach that was highly respected (not saying Tyson isn't) that promoted his big forwards would they be getting games. Squeaky wheel oil styles.

 

[ploppy]

I cant see the point of another tall forward unless we are prepared to actually leave forwards in our forward line. If our plan was to leave some forwards in our 50 to kick too then a tall forward would be great..but Ken just wants forwards who are midfielders following the ball around the ground in a rolling maul.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Shaws readiness isn't to do with his size and body size. Its to do with his two way running capability and defensive pressure.

**** if it means we have someone who stays inside our forward 50 then play him.

The Richmond game will be under the roof or no roof because the weather is perfect. best time to bring in a young new marking foorward. Tell chad and gus to stay at his feet ajd they may kick goals from crumbs.

 

[Dave Omsby]

I think we kick too much at Shulz when he's got two guys on him and no room to move , having that extra tall would give an extra option and allow Shulz to only have one on him sometimes . I'd pick Shaw myself , maybe his tank isn't big enough but I'd still play him

 

[Dylan8]

His tank is fine if the talk that he ran 15kms in a recent SANFL game is true. Defensive pressure aside he offers far too much not to put in. But this conversation will go on forever because we inevitibly go in with 2 tall forwards again next week.

 

[Powerstufff]

I cant see the point of another tall forward unless we are prepared to actually leave forwards in our forward line ....

That doesn't require another tall forward, which is the point of this thread. If our midfield are doing their job Schulzy or Westhoff can hang back in our 50. If we're being whipped in the centre Mr 3rd tall will be up the ground with them.

..... Ken just wants forwards who are midfielders following the ball around the ground in a rolling maul.

Obviously not true. Ken simply wants forwards of any size to convert more than 7g 18b.

 

[ploppy]

That doesn't require another tall forward, which is the point of this thread. If our midfield are doing their job Schulzy or Westhoff can hang back in our 50. If we're being whipped in the centre Mr 3rd tall will be up the ground with them.
Obviously not true. Ken simply wants forwards of any size to convert more than 7g 18b.

It was true last night. There would have been a dozen times we won the ball in defence and ran it out only to have no one in our half to kick too. It has to be an instruction from the coach to play like that. Doesnt matter how tall your forwards are if there in the oppositions half.

 

[RossFC]

It's a fair question and it's arguable that Shaw could play now to give us some structure.

I remember when Shaw first played last year in pre-season, he didn't get a touch - fast forward 18 months and he's put on a decent amount of weight and has hit purple form in the SANFL. With Butcher struggling for confidence and lacking the bread and butter lead up/kick goal consistency you'd think we would debut Shaw.

I wouldn't draw comparisons with Neade and Colquhoun though - totally different players, roles and positional difficulty.

Speaking of Hoon he would have been very handy last night.
Cool under pressure and has great skills in terms of kicking accuracy.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Shaws readiness isn't to do with his size and body size. Its to do with his two way running capability and defensive pressure.

We're not at the stage where we can pick people without clear deficiencies in their game yet. Mitchell and Sam Gray have clear deficiencies that make them below AFL quality, even if they can contribute.

(For the record I think Gray can get there, he'll get better as he gets more experienced)

It seems like Hinkley will make every excuse under the sun not to pick a tall because of one limitation or another. Why doesn't he apply the same set of rules to Mitchell? Butcher is noted for his hard running and defensive pressure in the forward line. Yes he has goalkicking issues and has issues maintaining impact over 4 quarters, but based on Mitchell's continual selection, I can't see how that excuse can be used to leave him out of the side.

 

[edgie]

We're not at the stage where we can pick people without clear deficiencies in their game yet. Mitchell and Sam Gray have clear deficiencies that make them below AFL quality, even if they can contribute.

(For the record I think Gray can get there, he'll get better as he gets more experienced)

It seems like Hinkley will make every excuse under the sun not to pick a tall because of one limitation or another. Why doesn't he apply the same set of rules to Mitchell? Butcher is noted for his hard running and defensive pressure in the forward line. Yes he has goalkicking issues and has issues maintaining impact over 4 quarters, but based on Mitchell's continual selection, I can't see how that excuse can be used to leave him out of the side.

Agree with this 100%

 

[Macca19]

I'd be happy enough for Butcher to come in.

 

[Portia]

I don't mind Butcher coming in, but I don't believe it would've won us this game

 

[Port01]

Interesting to see in other wet games that key forwards are still getting their fair share of goals.

 

[edgie]

Interesting to see in other wet games that key forwards are still getting their fair share of goals.

Choco, Richmond disaster 2010: "Today wasn't a day for key forwards"

Riewoldt kicked 4

 

[finbarr]

Too much is being made of GPS numbers by clubs these days. I understand they serve a strong purpose and have their place but sometimes you just need to ignore the data and play a guy. There's plenty of examples of young key forwards who come into AFL, been up and down in form, but ultimately contributed and found their level. How ling did Geelong carry Tom Hawkins and all his demons for? I'm sure they're now saying it was worth it.
Butch does admittedly seem like a guy who's head drops pretty easily and for that reason he's a pretty risky proposition. But Shaw has none of those issues. I want him to debut badly, see what he can do in a few games. If he struggles a bit, so be it. I doubt he'll be worse for the fun. Just play him. I'm so keen to see him in the AFL side.

 

[itisnt2hard]

Choco, Richmond disaster 2010: "Today wasn't a day for key forwards"

Riewoldt kicked 4

Riewoldt can play though. So can all the other talls that may or may not have performed well in the wet. We arent playing a 3rd tall because at present we havent got one that is ready or can play. Plus our pre-season game plan did include Butch but he just didnt cut it. Seriously anyone not living in fairy land will see there will be no tall changes this week because we had a bye in the twos today. Butch has one year left on his contract. Shop him around (as no doubt his manager is doing) off load and target a ready made trade. Who that is? who knows. Harsh but honest.

 

[Pedro59]

I remember this was Neil Craig's excuse for not picking Taylor Walker. It was a load of shit.

Hmm
Cam ark kick and run so is getting close but to know where to run ,and where to kick to is prob the last part
Hoping he comes in late this year
Paul Stewart has kicked bags of goals and knows the system
Is he an option for now?

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Hmm
Cam ark kick and run so is getting close but to know where to run ,and where to kick to is prob the last part

I read that sentence and had the sudden urge to assemble a child's toy.

 

[Pedro59]

I read that sentence and had the sudden urge to assemble a child's toy.

He he iPhone spell check

 

[RossFC]

Just give Nick Salter a game already!

Oh Wait.

 

[Puddy]

Nick Salter is the answer here