Society/Culture The left do not represent the poor anymore

[smokingjacket]

That's funny. The below chart seems to prove you WRONG! If you do the same research for state governments you will also see similar results. The left have no idea about responsible government, probably because many of them come from the unions where corruption, intimidation and rorting is rife. That's why they are always the ones growing the debt, rorting the funding for their elections, wasting money on cancelling projects in order to stay in power, running projects where the costs always blow out, etc, etc.

Trying to claim that the current Liberal government is responsible for the debt growing is childish. The only reason it's still growing is because Labor and The Greens won't pass any of their policies through the senate. Had Joe Hockey's budget been allowed five years ago the debt would have been reduced. Maybe you can give me an example of where a right wing government has been fiscally irresponsible?


View attachment 417024

Convenient time period to cut the graph off

Costello couldn't run a balanced budget over the cycle in the the middle of the largest resources boom in history but you want us to be amazed at their economic proficiency that essentially boils down to: they were in government as the Chinese were urbanising.

 

[Jello_B]

Has privatisation of power, water, transport of communications lead to any real gains in efficiency? cost of quality of service? Nope more inefficient, more costly, less quality of service, The Government and the private sector do have different strengths. But private sector is a magically thing that always does things better and cheaper.

Has communications? Seems like phone and data plans have gotten cheaper over the years.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

But wherever private health systems more prevalent, health costs are much more expensive and the outcomes worse.

They ARE funding their health care needs, through taxation. Which has been shown to be more efficient, to get better outcomes at lower costs.

Health funds/insurance is every bit a middle man /bearucracy as the Government. Just one has much better historical and international performance.

Based on what is private health insurance worse than public ?

In the private system you have shorter wait times , you're choice of doctors , better facilities and better support services. How is the private system not better ?

Private schools get better results than government schools do so why wouldn't you want more kids in private schools ?

When someone pays tax they have very little say in how that money is spent and its always the case that most of that money will be spent on other people who themselves pay not tax at all . When someone pays for something themselves they get to choose what they are paying for and the money is spent on them .

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Has privatisation of power, water, transport of communications lead to any real gains in efficiency? cost of quality of service? Nope more inefficient, more costly, less quality of service, The Government and the private sector do have different strengths. But private sector is a magically thing that always does things better and cheaper.

Just because the costs of something goes up in the private sector does not mean it would not of gone up more if it was run by the government , in fact all these companies are balancing their budgets while the government cant even get close .All of those things you have mentioned have increased in costs because of government policies .

The bottom line is compared to the private sector the government is lazy because they have no incentive to work hard or efficient . They have guaranteed income and don't have the incentive of a profit .

Why do companies have to sack bad workers and reward good workers ? to give them a reason to work hard or they will just be lazy

 

[geelong_crazy26]

The Australian people have repeatedly shown they they WANT government service, healthcare, education, welfare rather than lower taxes. It is a democratic if flawed system. They have decided this is how they would rather look after themselves, through THEIR government rather than private organisations.

Why do you think the liberals have spent more than twice as much time in government as labour ?

When someone gives money to a private company they do so because the are choosing to in return for a good or service , they are not being forced to .

When someone pays taxes the money is taken out of their wages without them having a choice and spend how and on whoever the government decides.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

No I not advocating increasing taxation. Just fixing loop holes and rorts so taxation system is more fair.

You have a problem with some people keeping more of their own hard earned money but your fine with the fact that 6 out 10 households pay no net tax at all ?

Only 4 out of 10 households pay any level of net tax at all , they are more than entitled to reduce their taxes as much as possible .

 

[pugsville]

You have a problem with some people keeping more of their own hard earned money but your fine with the fact that 6 out 10 households pay no net tax at all ?

no it's able fairness people on the same incomes should pay roughly the same amount of tax.

source?

Only 4 out of 10 households pay any level of net tax at all , they are more than entitled to reduce their taxes as much as possible .

so no one should pay any tax?

the current system is full of loopholes. Are you opposed to closing loopholes and letting people avoid paying tax if there is no direct benefit to society?

 

[pugsville]

Just because the costs of something goes up in the private sector does not mean it would not of gone up more if it was run by the government , in fact all these companies are balancing their budgets while the government cant even get close .All of those things you have mentioned have increased in costs because of government policies .

The bottom line is compared to the private sector the government is lazy because they have no incentive to work hard or efficient . They have guaranteed income and don't have the incentive of a profit .

Why do companies have to sack bad workers and reward good workers ? to give them a reason to work hard or they will just be lazy

but privatisation has failed to deliver any real benefits. Power, Water, Transport, communications.

You are rejecting reality.

 

[pugsville]

Based on what is private health insurance worse than public ?

In the private system you have shorter wait times , you're choice of doctors , better facilities and better support services. How is the private system not better ?

Not comparing apples with apples. Around the world better health outcomes and lower costs are achieved in those countries with greater public health systems.

Private schools get better results than government schools do so why wouldn't you want more kids in private schools ?

Not comparing apples with apples. private schools cherry pick their populations and have greater resources.

When someone pays tax they have very little say in how that money is spent and its always the case that most of that money will be spent on other people who themselves pay not tax at all . When someone pays for something themselves they get to choose what they are paying for and the money is spent on them .

but the Australian public have shown they want a public health system. Are they not entitled to make that choice?

 

[pugsville]

Has communications? Seems like phone and data plans have gotten cheaper over the years.

Communications many of the costs have dropped significantly through technology which would have happened regardless.iT has been argued that costs should have dropped more.

The sector is more inefficient now. overly complex billing systems, duplication of services.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

no it's able fairness people on the same incomes should pay roughly the same amount of tax.

source?



so no one should pay any tax?

the current system is full of loopholes. Are you opposed to closing loopholes and letting people avoid paying tax if there is no direct benefit to society?

https://theconversation.com/factche...ia-paid-by-10-of-the-working-population-45229
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...n/news-story/4cee19a028067cfc4abe8548829f3dfe
http://www.news.com.au/national/wel...x/news-story/4de14525309117fc9dd85537395ea497

Tax should be kept as low as possible because at the end of the day its the poor who at are hurt the most by high taxes not the rich .

 

[geelong_crazy26]

but privatisation has failed to deliver any real benefits. Power, Water, Transport, communications.

You are rejecting reality.

No it hasn't , government policy has .

Have you compared western Europe with eastern Europe ?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Not comparing apples with apples. Around the world better health outcomes and lower costs are achieved in those countries with greater public health systems.


Not comparing apples with apples. private schools cherry pick their populations and have greater resources.


but the Australian public have shown they want a public health system. Are they not entitled to make that choice?

How is it not comparing apples with apples ? private schools and hospitals do better than public ones .

I went to very expensive private school and there is entry requirement other than paying the money .

I would never go a to public school or hospital they are of very poor quality .

 

[geelong_crazy26]

What do you guys think happens when you make a wealthy business owner pay more in tax ? they cut back on wages

 

[pugsville]

How is it not comparing apples with apples ? private schools and hospitals do better than public ones .

I went to very expensive private school and there is entry requirement other than paying the money .

I would never go a to public school or hospital they are of very poor quality .

Exactly , Very expensive. Entry requirement. Comparing to a public school with much less resources and requirement to teach everyone is simply not comparing similar things. If you have much greater resources and chewy pick your school population it's simply not a valid comparison.

how do you public hospitals and schools are poor quality if you don't use them?

I went to a private school briefly it wasn't any better than the public schools

 

[pugsville]

What do you guys think happens when you make a wealthy business owner pay more in tax ? they cut back on wages

But doesn't the market of supply and demand determine wages? Or are you changing your story?

Anyway it simply doesn't make sense. It's a tax of profits. Wages are not taxed. Workers do work X it generates profit. If they cut back on wages surely thus get worse workers wont there profits also decline? How does cutting back on wages increase profits?

 

[pugsville]

No it hasn't , government policy has .

Have you compared western Europe with eastern Europe ?

so if some government has fails to run things properly all governments will fail to run things properly. Completely different societal and economic framework. Not apples with apples.

 

[Fire]

That's funny. The below chart seems to prove you WRONG!

View attachment 417024

Strange how that graph ends right before it launches into the stratosphere under the libs. Its almost like you're lying in order to create a false narrative.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Exactly , Very expensive. Entry requirement. Comparing to a public school with much less resources and requirement to teach everyone is simply not comparing similar things. If you have much greater resources and chewy pick your school population it's simply not a valid comparison.

how do you public hospitals and schools are poor quality if you don't use them?

I went to a private school briefly it wasn't any better than the public schools

Look at the results of private schools compared to public schools, private schools do so much better.

You only need to walk through a private and a public school to see how much better the facilities are in private schools.

I went to a private school that had 5 full sized ovals, a large gym , indoor fully heated swimming pool, 6 tennis courts, hockey court , archery range , 2 performing art studios , large arts centre , large music school , 3 libraries, 4 private school camps i could go on and on .

I really did spend my high school years in luxury.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I really did spend my high school years in luxury.

And yet can't see entrenched class privilege.

This one is too far gone, but there are still a shitload of people who hang off tabloid mainstream media and parrot its points whenever they get the chance.

 

[Gough]

Good to see your folks don't worry too much about value for money. This must be why you're such staunch Libs.

 

[Opts]

Strange how that graph ends right before it launches into the stratosphere under the libs. Its almost like you're lying in order to create a false narrative.

Let me say it yet again. Everyone knows fully well that the deficit is increasing. Everyone also knows that the Libs have attempted to make cuts to the budget only to have all attempts blocked by the left. IMO, it's help their agenda in spite of what is better for the country becaus their blocking defies logic (the logic of anyone who know about the economy that is).

Even an idiot would acknowledge that they've blocked every attempt to make cuts to the budget. The reason this debt exists is because Rudd and Gillard were so utterly incompetent.

If you guys are going to debate then debate the facts then do so with a proper argument. Seriously, it's like debating with children on here. No wonder not many right wing people bother be a use they're above that.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

And yet can't see entrenched class privilege.

This one is too far gone, but there are still a shitload of people who hang off tabloid mainstream media and parrot its points whenever they get the chance.

Can you explain why we have had previous waves of immigrants who come out with nothing but a strong work ethic that they pass on to their kids who went on to be successful?

Jewish and Asian migrants have done amazingly well .

Anyone born in this country who makes good life choices and works hard can make a good income.

 

[pugsville]

Let me say it yet again. Everyone knows fully well that the deficit is increasing. Everyone also knows that the Libs have attempted to make cuts to the budget only to have all attempts blocked by the left. IMO, it's help their agenda in spite of what is better for the country becaus their blocking defies logic (the logic of anyone who know about the economy that is).

Even an idiot would acknowledge that they've blocked every attempt to make cuts to the budget. The reason this debt exists is because Rudd and Gillard were so utterly incompetent.

If you guys are going to debate then debate the facts then do so with a proper argument. Seriously, it's like debating with children on here. No wonder not many right wing people bother be a use they're above that.

They have not blocked every attempt to make cuts to the budget. And they have suggested alternatives.

There's a long history the libs doing the same in opposition.

It's very rare that any Australian Government has control of the senate.

There's always an excuse for you guys. Basic unwillingness to accept responsibility for one's own actions.

 

[pugsville]

Look at the results of private schools compared to public schools, private schools do so much better.

You only need to walk through a private and a public school to see how much better the facilities are in private schools.

I went to a private school that had 5 full sized ovals, a large gym , indoor fully heated swimming pool, 6 tennis courts, hockey court , archery range , 2 performing art studios , large arts centre , large music school , 3 libraries, 4 private school camps i could go on and on .

I really did spend my high school years in luxury.

And yet this is the result. How it a valid comparison to schools with much less resources that have to accept all comers?

Why should the Australian public devote further resources to such a school? Any money spent is going have marginal impact which could have a greater impact elsewhere.