The Luke Jackson trade.

[Firesharter]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Darcy on the Dees list in a couple of years time. Gawn will need replacing soon enough and Dogga will be the best ruck in the comp in another season or two. Darcy won't be required.

If he goes anywhere it’ll be to the Cats

 

[WillHayward]

Watched Reidy during the preseason, believe me he's still got a while to go before he's AFL ready

Fair enough.

 

[Sully90]

Seems most watchers think Jackson is a better prospect as the main ruck. For some reason Freo supporters are convinced he is not.

Probably because we've watched them both the most out of everyone?

In the past 12 months Jackson has had his colours lowered significantly by Nankervis, Briggs and in the first half on the weekend by Xerri. Yes he's awesome around d the ground hut he has some clear physical weaknesses that can be exploited in the midfield. For a team who's one wood is it's goals from stoppages, Darcy remains our most important player.

 

[The 747]

Probably because we've watched them both the most out of everyone?

In the past 12 months Jackson has had his colours lowered significantly by Nankervis, Briggs and in the first half on the weekend by Xerri. Yes he's awesome around d the ground hut he has some clear physical weaknesses that can be exploited in the midfield. For a team who's one wood is it's goals from stoppages, Darcy remains our most important player.

I see. No chance any of these views are coloured by bias.

 

[Sully90]

I see. No chance any of these views are coloured by bias.

I've seen this take pop up on this thread often and it still makes no sense to me. Freo lose nothing by trading Darcy this year compared to last year. He would instantly make what is already one of the juiciest draft hands this year into borderline the best range of draft selections ever. If anything our fan bias should be packing Darcy's bags for him.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Its noteworthy that Freo have 5 Rucks on their list (including Jackson). Liam Reidy isnt that far off AFL level.

If someone comes hard for Darcy - Freo can consider it. Could get them a top 10 draft pick.

Hmmm, Liam Reidy is far away off AFL level they preferred to play a half done Cox up forward rather than play Reidy with Jackson. He's a break in case of emergency depth dude, not someone you want close to your best 22

 

[WillHayward]

If he goes anywhere it’ll be to the Cats

Toby Conway is a similar player. Pure old fashioned Ruck and developing.

So Id say he goes somewhere where he is clear number 1.

I dont think he goes to Geelong just because hes from the area. He will go somewhere he is clear number 1 and where he is wanted (and paid the most).

Melbourne would make sense.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Looking forward to Darcy coming back and Jackson kicking a bag so this media drivel can subside.
Jackson is losing Hitouts (ave 26)
Darcy is not just a lump ruckmen
He won a bnf @ 23yr, last year he averaged 40 Hitouts.
Darcy feeding serong AB Fyfe young delivering to Amiss Treacy Jackson
Is exciting.
Jackson is averaging more goals than the best young fwd in the game Lewis.
Imagine Jackson being in the fwd line for 75% of the time.
Please don’t consume knowledge from king purple cones and the like.
Stubborn as a mule
Smart as donkey

Why would you want Jackson in the forwardline 75% of the time? He's a good forward, he's a generational onball player

 

[The 747]

I've seen this take pop up on this thread often and it still makes no sense to me. Freo lose nothing by trading Darcy this year compared to last year. He would instantly make what is already one of the juiciest draft hands this year into borderline the best range of draft selections ever. If anything our fan bias should be packing Darcy's bags for him.

I am not suggesting Darcy should be traded. I was just commenting that most watchers think one thing, Freo fans seem to think another - and that just happens to line up with how the Freo side is configured when everyone is fit.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I am not suggesting Darcy should be traded. I was just commenting that most watchers think one thing, Freo fans seem to think another - and that just happens to line up with how the Freo side is configured when everyone is fit.

Freo fans are admittedly extremely stubborn on this, we do love Hodor. The intangibles of trading a dude loved by everyone and who is from interstate but loves the club makes it a complete non-starter but I think the number of people that just trash any mention of the idea is pretty silly. It makes sense from a pure value perspective.

If it ever happens though, it happens in like 4 years when Jackson is in his absolute prime and Darcy has shielded him from getting beaten up by 120kg big boys.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Why would you want Jackson in the forwardline 75% of the time? He's a good forward, he's a generational onball player

Because I still see he’s potential averaging 20+ disposal 2+ goals from half fwd

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Because I still see he’s potential averaging 20+ disposal 2+ goals from half fwd

20+ from the forwardline? Dogga kicks goals whether he's in the ruck (because rucks cant compete with him, poor OMac last week...) or whether he's up forward. Cant get clearances from up forward though

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

If you look a bit deeper into the discussion on the Acres contracts at the time Walshy, you would see people (that know more than your I) suggesting that Freo and Carlton's offers were the same if Blake played all his games for the year (As Freo's contract was less in base but higher in match payments) than Carlton's (which was higher in base and not as determined by match payments). In other words, yes the base contract was lower at Freo - but what is not reported on the article you have quoted, is that he could make up the difference with match payments.

I don't really expect you to look more closely though. And the truth is neither of us really know, as neither of us are the Fremantle list manager. We are going off what has been reported in the media - so it's really just third hand speculation.

Blake was offered 180k a year at Fremantle with some ridiculous triggers that would only just bring him ahead of what Carlton (and multiple other clubs) offered. Triggers that wouldn’t be met by any winger in the comp, and not just “match payments” as all players get those. I know this as fact.

An insulting offer to a 27 year old AFL quality player coming off a career best year, who was a massive part of the Freo culture. Do you know how badly you have to balls up the negotiation to send a WA boy back to VIC 3 years after he requested a trade home? Bell was pretty poor that off-season.

Don’t think Acres leaving had a lot to do with the Jackson arriving. The club probably had too much faith in O’driscoll and Henry, and thought they had Sharp over the line. But if they had their time again I think Freo would do it differently.

 

[T2B_]

Seems most watchers think Jackson is a better prospect as the main ruck. For some reason Freo supporters are convinced he is not.

I think Freo fans just understandably are very fond of Darcy and probably see him as their Sandilands 2.0. So they probably naturally want to defend their own if they perceive he's being put down for Jacko.

Reality is though I don't think anyone is downplaying Darcy, just the dynamics of the two in the same side and what that means for their roles. A lot of people also see Jackson's potential and hate the idea he might be "wasted" down forward.

 

[RonnieRaven]

20+ from the forwardline? Dogga kicks goals whether he's in the ruck (because rucks cant compete with him, poor OMac last week...) or whether he's up forward. Cant get clearances from up forward though

There’s lots of stoppages and throw ins in the fwd half.
Hodor stays a kick behind the play has a breather.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Blake was offered 180k a year at Fremantle with some ridiculous triggers that would only just bring him ahead of what Carlton (and multiple other clubs) offered. Triggers that wouldn’t be met by any winger in the comp, and not just “match payments” as all players get those. I know this as fact.

An insulting offer to a 27 year old AFL quality player coming off a career best year, who was a massive part of the Freo culture. Do you know how badly you have to balls up the negotiation to send a WA boy back to VIC 3 years after he requested a trade home? Bell was pretty poor that off-season.

Don’t think Acres leaving had a lot to do with the Jackson arriving. The club probably had too much faith in O’driscoll and Henry, and thought they had Sharp over the line. But if they had their time again I think Freo would do it differently.

For someone who likes to twist the knife sometimes, you do sometimes know more about Freo than most. The only think I'd say was incorrect here was Blacres didnt request a trade from memory, more basically St Kilda offered him up and didnt want him anymore

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

20+ from the forwardline? Dogga kicks goals whether he's in the ruck (because rucks cant compete with him, poor OMac last week...) or whether he's up forward. Cant get clearances from up forward though

It’s yet to be seen whether Jackson can kick enough goals up forward.

19 goals in the 15 games he played alongside Darcy last season.

I feel Fremantle supporters are underestimating the big mismatches he gets in the ruck. He will dominate against Xerri, McInerney and 80% of the other rucks in the comp, because they cannot move like him or cover the ground like him. Does he have the same advantage against the oppositions best full back or best big bodied midfielder?

 

[RonnieRaven]

I think Freo fans just understandably are very fond of Darcy and probably see him as their Sandilands 2.0. So they probably naturally want to defend their own if they perceive he's being put down for Jacko.

Reality is though I don't think anyone is downplaying Darcy, just the dynamics of the two in the same side and what that means for their roles. A lot of people also see Jackson's potential and hate the idea he might be "wasted" down forward.

But he will attend ruck contests in the fwd half.
He can swap with Fyfe as a ruck rover
Or swap with Darcy and go into ruck.
He’s not taking amiss position near the goals.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

For someone who likes to twist the knife sometimes, you do sometimes more about Freo than most. The only think I'd say was incorrect here was Blacres didnt request a trade from memory, more basically St Kilda offered him up and didnt want him anymore

As a lot of people know Freo are my second team and I genuinely like what they are building, I do take an interest in their list. That has been amplified by the Cerra and Acres trades, and the mini rivalry we have been building over the last few years.

Probably a bit of both in regards to the Saints trade. Underperforming 24 year old WA boy, it definitely made sense for everyone to get that Hill trade across the line. But he was contracted so still had to agree to the move.

 

[MadMundy]

Seems most watchers think Jackson is a better prospect as the main ruck. For some reason Freo supporters are convinced he is not.

Most of these watchers don't actually watch, they listen to what media pundits say and take it as gospel because most of them don't actually watch Fremantle.

We watch every week, we know Darcy and Jackson are better as a duo. Like I said, people just parrot what they hear in the media.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

It’s yet to be seen whether Jackson can kick enough goals up forward.

19 goals in the 15 games he played alongside Darcy last season.

I feel Fremantle supporters are underestimating the big mismatches he gets in the ruck. He will dominate against Xerri, McInerney and 80% of the other rucks in the comp, because they cannot move like him or cover the ground like him. Does he have the same advantage against the oppositions best full back or best big bodied midfielder?

I would put an asterisk on hose games played because it took him about 7 games to figure out his role and how to play but I agree with the general premise. I think he kicks 40-50 goals a year in his prime if you stuck him at FF every week - good player, not special though. He can probably kick 20-30 goals while playing out of the ruck and generating ridiculous clean clearances playing in the middle though.

A lot seem focused on the other ruck sometimes playing well while Jackson rucks or losing some ruck battles last year to the big Witts/Darcy type rucks. But that basically forgets he's still 21/22 and that's perfectly normal. I want to see what happens when he plays more midfield under Darcy before I write either option off, I'm steadfast he needs to be on ball as much as possible, I'd like to see if the mobility advantage he gets over rucks is the same as the potential size advantage he gets over mids.

A slightly leftfield option if this all gets to humming is that Jackson takes centre bounces basically always because Swaggy is a lot worse in there where it's traditionally harder to body up then around the ground stoppages (Darcy could start forward or something). Then he plays as mid roving Darcy taps who doesnt lose many around the ground hitouts.

Regardless, I'm excited to see where it all ends up, but do think Freo fans are very stubborn not accepting it's at least a discussion point

 

[Piggy Smalls]

I'm aware of that chatter. However, incentive based/performance based contracts are a bit insulting imo, especially when you're talking about a quality contributor... Which Acres was in 2022. If it was Harley Bennell or Nathan Freeman or something I could understand a performance based contract, it was a miracle for them to make it back from the rehab group most years. Acres put together a good season (hamstring set back aside) and was arguably your best performer in the finals that year too.

Clearly Acres felt the offer Freo put to him wasn't up to scratch. There were no rumours of him wanting to leave, no talk of disharmony or issues with other players... Then he just up and left. Pretty easy to infer from there.

Pure speculation on my behalf but this is my take: Reading between the lines it seems maybe Acres lifted his standards noticeably in the last year of his contract and there was some concern from Freo that he would get comfortable again once he had a guaranteed base salary. The match payment were designed to keep him and his work rate honest.

 

[WillHayward]

Most of these watchers don't actually watch, they listen to what media pundits say and take it as gospel because most of them don't actually watch Fremantle.

We watch every week, we know Darcy and Jackson are better as a duo. Like I said, people just parrot what they hear in the media.

Ok but you are 2 and zip this season with Jackson as the Ruck and you sucked last year with them as a duo.

So not sure it's that simple to say it's just the media and Freo fans know best. There is some correlation. May not be causation but it's a genuine discussion point.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Ok but you are 2 and zip with Jackson has the Ruck and you sucked last year with them as a duo.

So not sure it's that simple.

35 of his 58 coaches votes in the 9 games Darcy didn’t play or was injured in. The stats do not back it up.

These days ruck dominance is less about hitouts and more about outworking your opponents after the initial contest. As long as you aren’t getting belted (which Jackson isn’t) there is no significant advantage to winning hitouts, very little correlation to winning clearances.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Ok but you are 2 and zip this season with Jackson as the Ruck and you sucked last year with them as a duo.

So not sure it's that simple to say it's just the media and Freo fans know best. There is some correlation. May not be causation but it's a genuine discussion point.

This is ridiculously simplistic. There are a multitude of reasons our form is looking better than last season beyond just Jackson being in the ruck.

The immovable object Fyfe is back in the middle

Hayden Young is on the ball

Serong has gone to a new level

Josh Treacy has improved and is impacting all over the ground

We are taking the game on.

I could go on.