The Official Matthew Pavlich Thread

[subfocus99]

Re: Pavlich - What would You Give Up For Him?

IMO

VB + top 10 pick + 1st rd pick

Would have to agree, we're talking about one of the top 5 players in the comp.

dockers target will surely be van berlo. having said that surely if van berlo ever came back, he'd want that to be with the eagles. fremantle are so pump.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Re: Pavlich - What would You Give Up For Him?

2 first round draft picks and a subway voucher

 

[Markthirtytwo]

Re: Craigy's Interview On Pavlich.

I fully support Craigs feelings on trading.
Football players lives revolve around their club. I don't think it's fair to expect players to give 100% for their club if that same club will happily trade them away to another club, effectively forcing them to make new friends, fit in with their new teammates, and even live in another city, if a player the club sees as superior or more useful is on offer.

I find it immensely hypocritical of supporters to whinge about blokes like Fergus Watts and then turn around and suggest we trade players who love this club and have given it nothing but their full and total commitment for the duration of the time they've been here.

What kind of message does constantly trading players give to the remaining players anyway? How can we expect 100% dedication from them when we don't give it in return? One of the reasons Craig has been a successful coach to date is because he has the players on his side. The evidence of this is in the resurgance of the careers of several of our players - most notably Andy McLeod. We all knew he wasn't Ayers's biggest fan, and his career was going downhill as the years went by under him. Under Craig, this has turned around, and I'm sure that the loyalty he shows to his players is a strong part of this.

I hate the "meat market" too.

The only times I'll support trading our players are 1. when they want to leave or 2. if both parties feel they'll get better opportunities at another club.

Loyalty from the club translates to loyalty from the players.

Dandy you mention the words loyalty & meat market in your post.

How does that equate to the proposed player union wanting to introduce a free agent agreement down the track? More than likely the players themselves have requested this action be mooted.

What then does those words mean if the majority of players have requested this be proposed in the future?

 

[J-Train]

Re: Craigy's Interview On Pavlich.

I fully support Craigs feelings on trading.
Football players lives revolve around their club. I don't think it's fair to expect players to give 100% for their club if that same club will happily trade them away to another club, effectively forcing them to make new friends, fit in with their new teammates, and even live in another city, if a player the club sees as superior or more useful is on offer.

Buddy, as long as those players continue to put their hand out for a hefty pay cheque, they should be expected to give 100% and the club is free to treat them as commodities and trade them/play them as they see fit. I won't boo-hoo for a player who has to move to another city to continue their career - for the most part, footballers live charmed lives and most of them make more in a season that a regular joe makes in 3-5 years.

 

[Vader]

Re: Pavlich - What would You Give Up For Him?

I can't remember a club who kept a player on their list out of 'spite' who they knew didn't want to be there, and knew ultimately that he would return home.

Carlton did this to one of their players last year, who was (apparently) desperately keen to be traded to Hawthorn. He eventually re-signed with the blues, after they refused to trade him.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Re: Pavlich - What would You Give Up For Him?

What would you give us for pick #1 or #2 as part of the Pav deal?

 

[macca23]

Re: Pavlich - What would You Give Up For Him?

Carlton did this to one of their players last year, who was (apparently) desperately keen to be traded to Hawthorn. He eventually re-signed with the blues, after they refused to trade him.

That was Thornton, wasn't it??

 

[Vader]

Re: Pavlich - What would You Give Up For Him?

That was Thornton, wasn't it??

Couldn't remember the name of the player - though Thornton sounds right. Not sure how long he re-signed for, nor how he has performed since re-signing. Would have commented on these if I had such knowledge.

 

[PAVnTAZ]

Re: Pavlich - What would You Give Up For Him?

Would have to agree, we're talking about one of the top 5 players in the comp.

dockers target will surely be van berlo. having said that surely if van berlo ever came back, he'd want that to be with the eagles. fremantle are so pump.

You lot are on fire atm as well.

 

[johnnypanther]

Re: Pavlich - What would You Give Up For Him?

......

Also Port supporters gloating we could have had him the year before remember Adam Morgan

ah yes - Adam Morgan the bloke Port Power chose ahead of McGregor

and the same Adam Morgan Port Power chose ahead of Pavlich

and Port and every other club had a pick before we did (since we were premiers the year before) and they all missed Pavlich

 

[Dandy_GO]

Re: Craigy's Interview On Pavlich.

not a bad post at all

what's missing is the value of that rapport. you have presumed it is worth more, that I'd argue it is. there is value to be placed on loyalty and comfort, their is also a negative value to placed on complacency and a lack of a competitive edge.

Have we not created a competitive environment within our own club? It's possible to have the positives without that negative. "Perform or we delist you" is the motivation. It shouldn't be "perform and then maybe we'll trade you anyway". I don't think having an environment where quality players are traded for quick fixes is likely to have a more positive effect on the competitiveness of players.

 

[Dandy_GO]

Re: Craigy's Interview On Pavlich.

Buddy, as long as those players continue to put their hand out for a hefty pay cheque, they should be expected to give 100% and the club is free to treat them as commodities and trade them/play them as they see fit. I won't boo-hoo for a player who has to move to another city to continue their career - for the most part, footballers live charmed lives and most of them make more in a season that a regular joe makes in 3-5 years.

My real question in all this is would you "boo-hoo" if Chris Knights, for example, decided at the end of the season to go home?
My main issue with all this is the fickleness of supporters. The amount of whinging I heard about Watts when he left ("after all we've done for him!") was disgraceful, especially when it came from the very same people who constantly suggest we trade off certain players who have been very loyal to the club. I see that as hypocritical and it annoys me.

For the record, I'm not advocating stopping all trading, I just happen to agree with Craig's dislike for an environment where players are treated like livestock. I don't think we have to function like that to be a successful club.

 

[Dandy_GO]

Re: Craigy's Interview On Pavlich.

Dandy you mention the words loyalty & meat market in your post.

How does that equate to the proposed player union wanting to introduce a free agent agreement down the track? More than likely the players themselves have requested this action be mooted.

What then does those words mean if the majority of players have requested this be proposed in the future?

That's a tough question. Perhaps this feeling amongst the players is born of the uncertainty that the pro-trade environment creates. Players know they could be traded off to a shit club for a superior product at the end of every season and have little say in the matter under the current system. If they didn't have to worry so much about being traded and felt that their club displayed some degree of loyalty towards them, perhaps they wouldn't feel the need for free-agency. But I conceed that I can't really give you much of an answer to that - it's a very tricky question.

 

[Dandy_GO]

Re: Craigy's Interview On Pavlich.

actually this is wrong. the clubs do not have the ability to address their needs, they are forced to rely on a restrictive and broadly ineffective mechanism that may or may not help.

Can you elaborate?

clubs shouldn't need the ability to correct the outcomes of inappropriate and uncertain mechanism? are you sure.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be available, I'm saying it shouldn't be abused, and if the system is functioning then it shouldn't be in constant need. My argument is that it's possible to be a successful club without the constant use of trading, if you improve the other areas, and doing so will improve morale. Trading is a failsafe and it should be treated as a last resort, rather than something that's done at the drop of a hat.

A good employer always values the welfare of their workers, and seeks to create an environment conducive to greater productivity, irrespective of industry. where your argument lacks substance, is the validation of your idea that a worker cannot do his job unless he is mollycoddled in every possible way. sometimes you just have to get on with it. a healthy environment is one which creates the best possible atmosphere - within the rules of the industry.
you seem to suggest that the poor petals cannot do the job they're paid for, unless we hold their hands. no sorry.

You're exaggerating what I've said, but I do feel that players will perform to a higher capacity when they don't have the fear of being traded on their minds. 1% can mean a lot - how many times do we hear coaches and players say this? .

player trading is a fact of life for professional sports.

Just because it is doesn't mean it has to be.

 

[finn]

Re: Craigy's Interview On Pavlich.

loyalty is an interesting subject - yes, clubs owe loyalty to players and players owe loyalty to clubs. we must remember that football is more than a business and more than a sport and, that any one stage, the club may have 38-44 players on their lists + staff + volunteers + supporters. all these facets are in search of several things, stability, competitiveness, but, overarchingly, the premiership.

my theory is that the club owes it to itself, its players and supporters to give itself the best chance to win a premiership. yes, keep a stable list but if certain parts of the whole are missing, being only competitive leads to frustration and an inability to transform that competitiveness into a premiership. the club should not be loyal to one player above its greater loyalty to its raison d'etre - that of winning premierships and putting good sides on the ground.

the club also said this am that the players realise that they're in a business and can or have the ability to move. this means that by putting themselves in the draft, players know that they could go anywhere to pursue their chosen career - football.

in other words, seeking a trade for a player that could potentially turn a competitive unit into a potent premiership threat makes good football, as well as unfortunately, business sense. Adelaide would be fools to not try to get Pavlich but not at an inflated cost - the worry is that craig's reluctance to trade means that an avenue that can be as important as the draft does not have the same emphasis placed upon it. it would be wonderful for crows supporters if sellar became the new pavlich (took pavlich approx 4 years to play consistently good footer)but I'm not sure that the core of the side that craig has playing so competitively has another four years to wait for that possibility to eventuate.

if a win win trade can be worked - see stenglein/thompson, jarman & the other 57 players involved, n thompson & the hawks etc, then adelaide would be silly to take it up - even it costs a player or two.

utilitarian i know.

 

[finn]

Re: Pavlich - What would You Give Up For Him?

it's going to have to be high and of quality not quantity.
i'd give van berlo + first round + 2nd round
or van berlo + 8 -15 player such as bock + second round

freo aren't going to be interested in anything over 3 picks or players because they'll have to delist that many to accomodate anybody or picks swapped.
chances are that freo will not be interested in griffin, having warnock & sandilands; perhaps adelaide could liaise with freo, find out sort of desired player and swap with the victorian clubs (where adelaide have more currency) to pass that player on.

van berlo will be a very good player but he is infinitely more replaceable than a mobile and proven key position player.

 

[Kahuna]

Re: Pavlich - What would You Give Up For Him?

How about VB + Mattner + 2nd Round Pick?

 

[n4sir]

Re: Craigy's Interview On Pavlich.

Its a read between the lines thing.......you had to see the interview.

Personally i think Craigy is reluctant.

I actually thought it was a pretty well judged comment by NC.

Yeah, of course Adelaide is interested if Pav wants to get out of Freo, but the last thing we want to do is start a bidding war by stating we'll give up everything & the kitchen sink to get him.

If Pav wants to move (and that's a pretty big if) I'm pretty confident the powers that be will be willing to pay a heavy price to get him (they did it with Carey), but showing your whole hand right now is just silly right at this moment.

 

[ams4crows]

Re: Pavlich - What would You Give Up For Him?

it's all well and good to do this BUT!!! Port are also after him and it's gonna come down to who's offering the best Deal and Quite Frankly by the sounds of it we don't want to give up our Players he'll go to Port and NOW THAT!! is the WORST case Scenario!!

We have to have good trade bait!! otherwise he won't be wearing the tri-colours!

 

[Macca19]

Re: Craigy's Interview On Pavlich.

I think it is fair to say that Craig doesnt like to trade but if Pav stated 'I want to play for the Crows' at the end of the year, he would certainly look at it.

 

[Macca19]

Re: Pavlich - What would You Give Up For Him?

Depends on your finishing position, but:

Bock + 1st Round + Meeson pick.

 

[double07]

Re: Pavlich - What would You Give Up For Him?

Perrie + Bassett + First Rounder

This will never happen because Bassett is so highly rated by the club, fans and media. But personally I think Bassett gets a lot of easy possessions, a lot of low pressure disposals and is not a very good one on one defender. A lot of you will disagree but Bassett only started *looking* like a good player when Truck started playing on the oppositions best forward, routinely leaving Bassett on the 2nd, 3rd or 4th best opposition forward. Highly rated, over rated, very beneficial in a trade situation like this.

 

[Vader]

Re: Pavlich - What would You Give Up For Him?

Perrie + Bassett + First Rounder

This will never happen because Bassett is so highly rated by the club, fans and media. But personally I think Bassett gets a lot of easy possessions, a lot of low pressure disposals and is not a very good one on one defender. A lot of you will disagree but Bassett only started *looking* like a good player when Truck started playing on the oppositions best forward, routinely leaving Bassett on the 2nd, 3rd or 4th best opposition forward. Highly rated, over rated, very beneficial in a trade situation like this.

Two things...

Bassett was never really capable of handling the gorilla type forwards. He simply wasn't big enough, nor strong enough. However, with Truck in position he now takes the 2nd best forward and usually does a great job. Yes, he gets a lot of posessions from being 3rd man up in the marking contest, but this really means that he's read the ball better than his opponent and gone to help out a teammate.

Secondly, Bassett is 30 years old (31 in December). I can't really see anyone wanting to trade for him, given the limited service he is likely to provide.

 

[double07]

Re: Pavlich - What would You Give Up For Him?

Two things...

Bassett was never really capable of handling the gorilla type forwards. He simply wasn't big enough, nor strong enough. However, with Truck in position he now takes the 2nd best forward and usually does a great job. Yes, he gets a lot of posessions from being 3rd man up in the marking contest, but this really means that he's read the ball better than his opponent and gone to help out a teammate.

While I agree that he was never strong enough to take on the Barry Hall type players. He still regularly get rolled in one on one situations.

Secondly, Bassett is 30 years old (31 in December). I can't really see anyone wanting to trade for him, given the limited service he is likely to provide.

Good call, didn't even think about age

Then I'd probably go with:
Perrie-Meesen-1st rounder-Maybe second rounder

 

[Southerntakeover]

Re: Pavlich - What would You Give Up For Him?

While I agree that he was never strong enough to take on the Barry Hall type players. He still regularly get rolled in one on one situations.

Strangely enough i think Barry Hall was one player he had a very good record against.