2nds The SANFL Thread

[Dujon11]

Solid game by Lyons given his fatigue issues.

I'd give Shaw a little bit longer (and everyone knows I'm a huge fan) but it's time to release the mini beast. Playing Grigg may however unbalance our team that doesn't know what a left footer looks like.

Lyons played a great game today, would be close to leading Glenelgs best and fairest ATM and that says plenty about him and the club. The kid gives 100% every time he pulls on the Bays guernsey and am of the belief that if Adelaide dont play him many other AFL clubs will. He is a contested ball talent.

Crouch is a gun, no doubt about it, the negativity towards him on this board is unwarranted. He is young, aggressive and does things other players cannot.

Im a big fan of Sammy Shaw, however believe he could be injury prone and regrettably never see the best of him. I hope im wrong.

 

[Magma]

unfortunately didnt get to the game but the criticism of crouch is absurd. he's a kid going back and forth between teams right now, usually because of an injury. i agree with the sentiment that he needs to work harder, but being lazy seems to be an adelaide midfield speciality currently. he'll be fine. just needs to get a run going.

 

[Elite Crow]

I can't believe we wasted our pick on Crouch! After all, four games is all we need to see how great a player will be....


Ablett: averaged 10 disposals a game after four games.
Pendlebury: averaged 11.75 disposals a game after four games.
Swallow: averaged 7.5 disposals a game after four games.
Bartel: averaged 13 disposals a game after four games.
Watson: averaged 8.5 disposals a game after four games.
Dangerfield: averaged 10.5 disposals a game after four games.
Selwood: averaged 16.5 disposals a game after four games.
Beams: averaged 17.25 disposals a game after four games.
Thompson: averaged 13.25 disposals a game after four games.
Kennedy: averaged 14.25 disposals a game after four games.
Cotchin: averaged 17.25 disposals a game after four games.

etc.....


FFS give the kid a chance. He's doing just fine, particularly seeing as though he's had an injury interrupted season. He'll learn that being lazy won't cut it in the AFL and hopefully Danger/Sloane will take him under his wing and mentor him in the ways of the AFL player. Calls from posters saying that he is 'ordinary' compared to a man child and a once in a decade freak are just embarrassing.

No doubt Crouch needs to be given a chance and overall he's mostly received support but listing a heap of players whose first 4 games were underwhelming who turned out to be stars doesn't mean much. You could easily do a list of those who played 4 average games to start with who didn't make it.

 

[Mismatched]

No chance. The kid is massively out of shape and seriously struggling in an ordinary side. He would be on no AFL recruitment list at the moment.

Really? I'm happy to be corrected by someone who's actually watching him, but his stats over the past few weeks suggest he's anything but struggling.

 

[headache1]

The other difference with Crouch and people like O'Meara and Wines, is that the latter are already being given major roles within their midfields, as they don't have the same kind of senior players in there that we have. Give Crouch the role that Scott Thompson plays*, and I'm sure he'd be getting more of the ball. As it stands, he seems to find it ok for a rookie player anyway.

*No, I am not suggesting we drop Thompson for Crouch.

 

[Dujon11]

Really? I'm happy to be corrected by someone who's actually watching him, but his stats over the past few weeks suggest he's anything but struggling.

Without being harsh, the kid is badly out of shape. Gets the footy but burns it badly, I recommend you have a look at a Bays game. Bearing in mind it's like watching a train wreck ATM.

 

[Jack is Back]

Patty Dangerfield turned up for his first pre-season (and second year on our list after spending his first year in Moggs Creek completing year 12) well below the physical condition required of an AFL player (by his own admission). He was nursed through the pre-season and went on to play 21 games that year.
In contrast Brad Crouch had a full season with the Bloods last year and was BOG in the prelim. He had a fantastic pre-season, played superbly in the MMC and has now played 5 games with West Adelaide by the half way point of the season.

As mentioned, Brad's first 4 games have been much better than Pattys.

Different Folks, Different Strokes?

 

[WAG]

No doubt Crouch needs to be given a chance and overall he's mostly received support but listing a heap of players whose first 4 games were underwhelming who turned out to be stars doesn't mean much. You could easily do a list of those who played 4 average games to start with who didn't make it.

Of course it doesn't mean much other than to highlight the fact that 4 games at AFL is too early to tell.

As you say I could easily have highlighted players who never made it, but that would hardly support my point. Oh ok, I'll do one player who never made it.

Brent Reilly: averaged 7.25 disposals a game after four games.

 

[Allefgib]

Patty Dangerfield turned up for his first pre-season (and second year on our list after spending his first year in Moggs Creek completing year 12) well below the physical condition required of an AFL player (by his own admission). He was nursed through the pre-season and went on to play 21 games that year.
In contrast Brad Crouch had a full season with the Bloods last year and was BOG in the prelim. He had a fantastic pre-season, played superbly in the MMC and has now played 5 games with West Adelaide by the half way point of the season.

As mentioned, Brad's first 4 games have been much better than Pattys.

Different Folks, Different Strokes?

Ive started to enjoy some of your insights.
My biggest problem is understanding them.

Are you mainly sticking it to those who gave it to craigy, or are you really concerned about our current man management?

 

[AdelaideFan14]

Atkins 29 touches 2 goals in reserves might get him an instant recall into league team. Siggins 16 touches 1 goal.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

Atkins 29 touches 2 goals in reserves might get him an instant recall into league team. Siggins 16 touches 1 goal.

Of which 1 was ineffective, in driving rain. Time will tell whether he can actually defend or not, but the stats say that his ball use is immaculate. Has been running at around 90% since recovering from injury. It's a shame that the Roosters league team is a tough one to crack at the moment.

 

[raymagoo]

In 4 games Crouch has averaged 20 touches and 4 tackles. For what is essentially a first year player, that is outstanding. If you actually thought he would come in and dominate, you're a silly. Will become a star, just be patient

& i thought the in fighting on the blues board was bad!

I know you got him as a mini draft pick but what did you actually give up for him? has looked very solid IMO!
been injured & hard to get continuity in your game in a first year like that!

No he hasn't shaped up like o'meara, but tell me many first year players that ever have? He is magnificant!

 

[Jack is Back]

Ive started to enjoy some of your insights.
My biggest problem is understanding them.

Are you mainly sticking it to those who gave it to craigy, or are you really concerned about our current man management?

I simple believe that time will enable us to put all things into perspective.

Craig was all things evil, Sando is the new messiah.

Maybe, maybe not.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

& i thought the in fighting on the blues board was bad!

I know you got him as a mini draft pick but what did you actually give up for him? has looked very solid IMO!
been injured & hard to get continuity in your game in a first year like that!

No he hasn't shaped up like o'meara, but tell me many first year players that ever have? He is magnificant!

We gave up the first round compensation pick we got for Phil Davis and pick 10 (Liam Sumner) for Crouch and Luke Brown.

GWS activated the compo pick last year and watched in despair as we had a completely unforeseen good year. It ended up being pick 21, which landed with Collingwood via Melbourne through the Jesse Hogan and Chris Dawes deals. It then became pick 20 after we surrendered our first round pick and Collingwood used it on Tim Broomhead.

I think Crouch is tracking ok and the criticism on here is largely a result of unrealistic expectations. Having said that, he is not being helped by our selection policy. I thought he should have come back into the side earlier after his injury, and he was unfairly scapegoated after an all round awful performance against Sydney in his first game back. Since then, he has been mediocre at SANFL level and there are probably others ahead of him in line for a recall.

 

[raymagoo]

We gave up the first round compensation pick we got for Phil Davis and pick 10 (Liam Sumner) for Crouch and Luke Brown.

GWS activated the compo pick last year and watched in despair as we had a completely unforeseen good year. It ended up being pick 21, which landed with Collingwood via Melbourne through the Jesse Hogan and Chris Dawes deals. It then became pick 20 after we surrendered our first round pick and Collingwood used it on Tim Broomhead.

I think Crouch is tracking ok and the criticism on here is largely a result of unrealistic expectations. Having said that, he is not being helped by our selection policy. I thought he should have come back into the side earlier after his injury, and he was unfairly scapegoated after an all round awful performance against Sydney in his first game back. Since then, he has been mediocre at SANFL level and there are probably others ahead of him in line for a recall.

You cant expect all young guns to kill it straight away! He seems much more of a clearance handballer is that correct? He will turn out fine! Was hogan available at that mini draft pick? gee he looks handy!

 

[cmndstab]

Way too early to be worried about Crouch. He's already shown "enough" at AFL level in his first season pre-injury to excite us. I'm not interested in his dominating in 2013 - it's beyond that I care about.

That said, assuming he's past his injuries I don't see a compelling reason to leave him out of the AFL side. Let him find his feet against the strongest opposition possible.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

On topic, I went out to Prospect on Saturday and watched North and Sturt. It was cold. Like, really really cold. The only time I can remember being colder at a sporting event was at Anfield on a Monday night in January.

The game was on tv so I'm not sure how useful most of this is, but anyway, my thoughts:

Aidan Riley was the pick of the Crows players for mine. Got a lot of ball in close, showed a willingness to stand up in tackles and try to create by hand. He was heavily tagged by Max Thring (who is a good footballer) and still had an influence on the game. Kicked into the man on the mark when kicking for goal at a crucial moment in the 2nd quarter when the game was in the balance.

Tambling had a lot of touches loose across half back. He was neat and tidy with his disposal, but too safe. He didn't hurt the opposition in the slightest. I was more impressed with his last quarter when he went into the midfield and probably got less numbers but had more effect on the game.

Graham was serviceable enough for Sturt but nowhere near good enough. He was nullified in the ruck by James Craig, and probably did his best work up forward where he managed to find space and take a few marks. He didn't take any with even the slightest hint of pressure though - the one contested mark he did take inside 50 was pretty dubious, he held it for about a microsecond. His ruckwork in the forward 50 was good, as well it should be when your opponent is 2 inches shorter than you are.

Kerridge was anonymous and racked up stats in the last quarter when the game was well and truly over. Not sure what's happened to him since that incredible performance v North Melbourne.

I like Tim McIntyre which is why I hope he has a trade or something that will allow him to make a living next year. Did one or two nice things. Kicked two goals, one of which was a nice (albeit wind assisted) finish from outside 50 after being hit on the lead. The other was a cheap one from a downfield free kick. In fairness to him, it's not easy to influence a game as an opportunist forward when your team gets pummeled.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

If we see Brad Crouch, Mitchell Gregg, Jarrod Lyons, Sam Kerridge, Rory Laird and the injured pair in Sam Shaw and Lewis Johnson as a long term players at our football club, I feel it is essential that they play anywhere between 5 and 8 of the remaining 10 games.

This will give them a very good taste of what AFL football is all about and then over the summer the coaches MUST push each and every single one of those boys and make it known to them that he has to earn there place. This season is gone, therefore, lets get something out of it by giving him and a few others a good taste of it.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

You cant expect all young guns to kill it straight away! He seems much more of a clearance handballer is that correct? He will turn out fine! Was hogan available at that mini draft pick? gee he looks handy!

No, sorry I probably wasn't clear. Hogan went in the mini-draft the year after we got Crouch. He wasn't available to us. It is just by coincidence that the compensation pick we gave to GWS as part of the Crouch deal ended up being activated the next year and used in the deal which got Melbourne the mini-draft pick which they used on Hogan.

And you're right, at this stage Crouch has shown a tendency to win contested ball and handball. He does have a turn of speed on him though and is a strong kid - he is not unlike Dangerfield in terms of his physical attributes but probably with a lower top speed. So we are hoping to see him develop as a more inside-out mid.

I think everyone on here is just hoping he racks up 40 in the SANFL so that there can be no excuse to leave him out of the Crows side anymore. Every week he gets 15-20 touches for Westies is a disappointment because we know it means we won't get to see him in the Crows side for another week.

 

[raymagoo]

No, sorry I probably wasn't clear. Hogan went in the mini-draft the year after we got Crouch. He wasn't available to us. It is just by coincidence that the compensation pick we gave to GWS as part of the Crouch deal ended up being activated the next year and used in the deal which got Melbourne the mini-draft pick which they used on Hogan.

And you're right, at this stage Crouch has shown a tendency to win contested ball and handball. He does have a turn of speed on him though and is a strong kid - he is not unlike Dangerfield in terms of his physical attributes but probably with a lower top speed. So we are hoping to see him develop as a more inside-out mid.

I think everyone on here is just hoping he racks up 40 in the SANFL so that there can be no excuse to leave him out of the Crows side anymore. Every week he gets 15-20 touches for Westies is a disappointment because we know it means we won't get to see him in the Crows side for another week.

Nothing wrong with 20 in close if they are coming out to the right player! From what i saw he has those dangerfield attributes! just hard to get a gauge in melbourne with what happens! I never really understood the mini draft concept

 

[Allefgib]

I simple believe that time will enable us to put all things into perspective.

Craig was all things evil, Sando is the new messiah.

Maybe, maybe not.

Fair enough.
My view is craigy had to go and that Sando may not be hard nosed enough. As you say time will tell.

 

[craig crowing]

Fair enough.
My view is craigy had to go and that Sando may not be hard nosed enough. As you say time will tell.

Some of his selections have been more than puzzling especialy after some young ones performed well to be sent back .
My concerns as far as Crouch goes not so much not going to be good player but doesnt seem a impact player we need or hoped for with the highest pick we will see for long time .

 

[Mismatched]

Aidan Riley was the pick of the Crows players for mine. Got a lot of ball in close, showed a willingness to stand up in tackles and try to create by hand. He was heavily tagged by Max Thring (who is a good footballer) and still had an influence on the game. Kicked into the man on the mark when kicking for goal at a crucial moment in the 2nd quarter when the game was in the balance.

The issue I had watching Riley's game, is that whilst he was decent, there wasn't really anything he did to separate himself from the pack. Sure he's a very good footballer at SANFL level and I certainly don't think he's hopeless at AFL level either from what I've seen. I just think midfielders at AFL level need to be able to separate themselves from the pack. There's plenty of guys who can be "okay" midfielders, to succeed at AFL level though, as Brad Symes or Chris Schmidt found out, you need to be more than just "okay". He might be able to offer something to Melbourne or GWS as a bit of a "bridging" style player, who go into the midfield and take the hard hits and win the contested footy and protect their youngsters to a certain extent whilst they develop.

Unfortunately I don't see much point in us putting too much time and effort into him at AFL level though, we've got many other guys with far more potential.

Tambling had a lot of touches loose across half back. He was neat and tidy with his disposal, but too safe. He didn't hurt the opposition in the slightest. I was more impressed with his last quarter when he went into the midfield and probably got less numbers but had more effect on the game.

I wouldn't even go that far, whilst I understand the conditions were trying, there were still many passes that a player of his experience (9 years on an AFL list and over 100 AFL games) should have been making easily at that level, especially when, as you say, he really wasn't trying anything particularly special with his passes. It was simple get ball, see team-mate, give team-mate ball. If he was genuine about reviving his career he'd actually be looking to really take the opposition on with pace and deliver long and hard to dangerous spots. All he'd do is nothing <5m handballs and 20-30 metre kicks sideways or down the boundary line.

Having said all this, I have a horrible feeling that he'll be recalled to the Crows side. We'll see the way he was able to find the footy and accept that as enough to earn a place in our side.

 

[Mismatched]

Fair enough.
My view is craigy had to go and that Sando may not be hard nosed enough. As you say time will tell.

Craig's time was up, there was little doubt about that, however that doesn't mean he was a hopeless coach. Sando I think has some outstanding qualities as a coach, however there's also some deficiencies in his coaching too that I think we need to address by improving the assistant coaching support structure around him.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

The issue I had watching Riley's game, is that whilst he was decent, there wasn't really anything he did to separate himself from the pack. Sure he's a very good footballer at SANFL level and I certainly don't think he's hopeless at AFL level either from what I've seen. I just think midfielders at AFL level need to be able to separate themselves from the pack. There's plenty of guys who can be "okay" midfielders, to succeed at AFL level though, as Brad Symes or Chris Schmidt found out, you need to be more than just "okay". He might be able to offer something to Melbourne or GWS as a bit of a "bridging" style player, who go into the midfield and take the hard hits and win the contested footy and protect their youngsters to a certain extent whilst they develop.

Unfortunately I don't see much point in us putting too much time and effort into him at AFL level though, we've got many other guys with far more potential.

Fair comment. Put it this way, I thought he was the best of the Crows players. I didn't say he shone. He was good, he tried hard when some of his team mates didn't, despite the fact that he copped a heavy tag and a lot of physical punishment. I agree that he didn't stand out.

I wouldn't even go that far, whilst I understand the conditions were trying, there were still many passes that a player of his experience (9 years on an AFL list and over 100 AFL games) should have been making easily at that level, especially when, as you say, he really wasn't trying anything particularly special with his passes. It was simple get ball, see team-mate, give team-mate ball. If he was genuine about reviving his career he'd actually be looking to really take the opposition on with pace and deliver long and hard to dangerous spots. All he'd do is nothing <5m handballs and 20-30 metre kicks sideways or down the boundary line.

Having said all this, I have a horrible feeling that he'll be recalled to the Crows side. We'll see the way he was able to find the footy and accept that as enough to earn a place in our side.

Again, fair comment. What I will say is that unless you were there, you don't know just how trying those conditions were. The wind sock was above horizontal for the entire first half.

More importnatly, I'm concerned that the AFC are not really watching SANFL footy with the vigour that they should be. It's a weak example, but remember how there used to be a little blurb about every player who played in the SANFL on a given weekend on the AFC website? "Player x worked hard and won lots of contested ball" then would give their stats. Usually the stats would be 1 or 2 touches off what Champion Data had recorded, which said to me that they were watching closely and doing their own analysis.

Now all they do is reel off the Champion Data stats. Anyone with an internet connection could do that. It could be that they are keeping their analysis a bit more in house, or it could be that they are not really watching.

If Tambling is in the side this week, we will know it's the latter.