Society/Culture The seemingly growing anti 'western' sentiment in 'western' societies.

[demondavey]

But but you’ve been complaining that white people shouldn’t interfere because everything they do is wrong.

Do you know the difference between interfere and assert authority? You can’t really interfere that well if you’re not in control. White people / governments have always been in control.

 

[Episode IV]

Interesting isnt it? Colonists came here in 1788 and aboriginals weren’t able to vote in a parliamentary system that was supposed to be democratic until 1967.

No, I think teaching within the curriculum would be fine. You know, how we do with Chinese?

No, the point was that teaching the "Chinese" language has relevance to modern society and global affairs. If you want to become involved in all that, it's a good subject to take.

Aboriginal languages do not have the same importance or relvence. If you want to learn one of them (There are quite a few from what I understand) then go do that. No one is stopping you.
And that's the general tone, isn't it. "No one is stopping you".

Offering one of them as a standard subject in public schools would seem fairly counterproductive though.

 

[South of the Yarra]

I hope you are encouraging them to look forward, not backward, make the most of their opportunities, be proud of their heritage but not wallow in pointless grievance. They can’t control what other people say or think, but they can work for their own future. Plenty of others have made a great success of their lives.

I think the words empowering snd engaging may suggest looking forward but they must never forget the past.
Have plenty for you to do if you want to throw your hand up. Here is your chance.

 

[demondavey]

No, the point was that teaching the "Chinese" language has relevance to modern society and global affairs. If you want to become involved in all that, it's a good subject to take.

Aboriginal languages do not have the same importance or relvence. If you want to learn one of them (There are quite a few from what I understand) then go do that. No one is stopping you.
And that's the general tone, isn't it. "No one is stopping you".

Offering one of them as a standard subject in public schools would seem fairly counterproductive though.

In your opinion

 

[Episode IV]

Sorry, could you highlight all that equality that is present even though the closing the gap report suggests otherwise? Or are we just taking your word on it?

That's what I asked you to do, earlier. Point out where this inequality of opportunity still exists, using the report if you think you have a need to. Give us details.
You have chosen not to. I can surmise why, but you'd just start shouting again I'm sure.

You were asked quite a few questions, actually. You do spend considerable amounts of time and effort not answering things, don't you?

 

[demondavey]

I hope you are encouraging them to look forward, not backward, make the most of their opportunities, be proud of their heritage but not wallow in pointless grievance. They can’t control what other people say or think, but they can work for their own future. Plenty of others have made a great success of their lives.

Pointless grievance.

Yeah, I guess killing all their ancestors was pointless to them. Just forget about it. I guess the Jews who had relatives killed in the Holocaust should think the same.

 

[Episode IV]

In your opinion

I'd say its a fairly common one.

 

[demondavey]

That's what I asked you to do, earlier. Point out where this inequality of opportunity still exists, using the report if you think you have a need to. Give us details.
You have chosen not to. I can surmise why, but you'd just start shouting again I'm sure.

You were asked quite a few questions, actually. You do spend considerable amounts of time and effort not answering things, don't you?

Read the report. There’s my answer. You aren’t getting any traction with your so called gotcha moments even though you think they work.

 

[demondavey]

I'd say its a fairly common one.

In your opinion

 

[South of the Yarra]

I'd say its a fairly common one.

For someone who has no idea

 

[Episode IV]

In your opinion

One shared, at the very least, by the Australian education system. And probably the wider population.

Know why French, once considered an important part of education and taken by a great many kids back in the day, isn't widely taught any more?
Because it's just not that important. You can still learn it if you want, though.

Read the report. There’s my answer. You aren’t getting any traction with your so called gotcha moments even though you think they work.

Ok, that's your answer.
Are we done?

 

[Episode IV]

For someone who has no idea

No idea how many people would be interested in learning one of (a couple of hundred?) Aboriginal languages as opposed to learning Mandarin, the aim of which would be to pursue an area of interest in later employment opportunities, and why the schools would generally cater on a needs basis with regard to education?

Oh, I think I do.

 

[South of the Yarra]

No idea how many people would be interested in learning one of (a couple of hundred?) Aboriginal languages as opposed to learning Mandarin, the aim of which would be to pursue an area of interest in later employment opportunities, and why the schools would generally cater on a needs basis with regard to education?

Oh, I think I do.

Nope you don't. No idea. You hate that I can see straight through you. Dealt with people like you my entire life. Can read you like a book. That is how little you listen and how little you know. I am not asking for Aboriginal languages to be taught in schools, I am asking for Aboriginal students to be empowered by schools to maintain a connection to culture, language and country.

 

[barreness]

So you made it up. Right.

You really need me to hold your hand?

The conclusion about your view I came to by reading this post was

It’s not that they didn’t give a damn(so colonial aus apparently gave a damn), they took strategies that didn’t work.(was this the massacres or the stealing of land) Even over 200 years(so since the beginning of colonolisation), it was still too sudden, they hoped for fast results, which was impossible, and they met resistance(implying they needed to be massacred, stolen, enslaved and later assimilated). It’s going to take a few more generations to “bridge the gap”, and education is the key.

Your definitive History of white Australia is just a charity project with a few little unintentional hiccups

 

[ferball]

That’s rubbish. From kindergarten upwards indigenous studies are embedded into curricula.

There are numerous efforts being made to blend Aboriginal culture and language into schools, particularly in NT.

https://ministers.pmc.gov.au/burney/2022/remote-aboriginal-students-learning-two-worlds

Unfortunately attendance rates of Aboriginal children have stagnated. This needs to improve and comes down to parents seeing the value of education and making sure their children go to school.

Education | Closing the Gap

www.niaa.gov.au

• The target to close the gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous school attendance is not on track.
• Attendance rates for Indigenous students have not improved between 2014 and 2018 (around 82% in 2018), and remain below the rate for non-Indigenous students (around 93%).
• The gap in school attendance is evident from when children start school. During primary school the attendance gap was around 8 percentage points in 2018. Attendance falls when students reach secondary school – particularly for Indigenous students – and the attendance gap widens to 14 percentage points.
• In remote areas, school attendance by Indigenous students is lower and the attendance gap is larger. In 2018, attendance rates for Indigenous students ranged from 86% in Inner Regional areas to 63% in Very Remote areas.

Maybe those parents would see value in education if they felt that as a result their kids would get a fair go in Australia.

 

[ferball]

I was referring to your posting style before that. On two occasions at least, your posting history has consisted of little more than a list of bad things that happen. To everyone, at some point in history.
It has about as much use a condom vending machine in the Vatican when it comes to resolving any gap issues in Australia. It is inflammatory, rhetorical, polarising, and a complete waste of everyone's time other than the me-toos who give you a lot of likes in support.

You weren't asking anything "nicely". I used it once, that does not qualify as "pushing".
I know quite a lot about the similarity (and differences) in systems, and compatibility in cultural values between China and India and Australia.
It's one reason a lot of them are coming here. They like it here, and they like "our" system.
Where do you stand on the immigration debate anyway?

Your train of thought might have gone something along the lines of something along the lines of:
"He called me lad"
"that's sort of like boy"
"Americans in the South often refer to African American people as "Boy" in a derogatory manner".
"I'm black"
"he's racist!"

...I'm waiting for the next step in your ah... thinking.

Perhaps you'd like to actually address some of the questions asked of you - respectfully - rather than getting all wound up over me calling you "lad".
There have been a lot of people calling others a lot worse around here. I don't really take offence at much of it.

Was that last bit a threat? Or are you asking me nicely?

What the ****?

He's talking about bad things that happened to him you ****en peanut.

 

[ferball]

I'm not particularly interested in your personal history. I have one of my own, you don't see me bandying it about for sympathy.
None of it helps resolve any issues with regard to Aboriginals in modern Australia.

A promise to do what?
If you want to be considered an adult, then act like one. Don't stand in my face shouting words at me hoping for a response, and you may as well quit the the empty threats, too. They're not having too much effect.

You're a ****en arseh*le pal.

Maybe you shut the **** up and **** off out of this thread.

 

[Episode IV]

Nope you don't. No idea. You hate that I can see straight through you. Dealt with people like you my entire life. Can read you like a book.

I don't think you're really dealing with anything much at all, and you certainly aren't "seeing through me".

Was your post an example of the kind of respect you'd like to be treated to?

That is how little you listen and how little you know.

Perhaps if you kept up with the conversation a little more, and responded to posts directed at you rather than someone else, you'd find keeping up a little easier.

I am not asking for Aboriginal languages to be taught in schools, I am asking for Aboriginal students to be empowered by schools to maintain a connection to culture, language and country.

Sure. I commented on what I thought that would be worth in the long term to your original post. I don't think it would help Aboriginal kids much other than to isolate them even further from wider society.

The one you've quoted just now was in response to Davey. Not you. That was an assessment of the acceptance among the wider public of teaching Aboriginal languages in schools, as opposed to more meaningful languages (such as Mandarin).

I also said that if you wanted to set something up along cultural lines, "no one is stopping you". Many cultures and ethnicities do, right here in Australia.
I mean, if you did do that, we could conduct some studies in a couple of decades to see how much it did to "Close the Gap".
I'm up for it. The study, I mean. I'm interested in that sort of thing. If I live long enough to see the results, which would take some time and effort.

I'm getting a little tired of repeating myself over and over.
I'd also appreciate it if you two stopped responding to me using each other's posts to make it look like I've said something I haven't. It does appearing you're confusing yourselves more than anyone else, particularly me.

 

[ferball]

I hope you are encouraging them to look forward, not backward, make the most of their opportunities, be proud of their heritage but not wallow in pointless grievance. They can’t control what other people say or think, but they can work for their own future. Plenty of others have made a great success of their lives.

Mate this is exactly the sort of paternalistic bullshit that aboriginal people constantly put up with. You can hope what you want but SotY has agency is acting in the manner they think is appropriate, not what you think is appropriate.

I'm sure you're trying to be positive too and even supportive but it comes across as being so patronising.

 

[Episode IV]

You're a *en a-hole pal.

I probably appear so. I assure you I'm really not (most of the time), but addressing these sorts of people takes a great deal of patience, and I'm afraid it's not my strongest suit.

If Yarra wants to tell his story, that's fine. That's his decision. He's done so may times before. I'm not of a mind to do so, personally. I don't think it has any particular relevance.

If you think having had a hard time of it should completely trump anything else with regard to solving issues, though, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you.

A great many of the conflicts occurring globally are occurring exactly because everyone thinks their pain trumps everyone else's, and they should be submitted to on the strength of that alone, and furthermore that personal pain should determine policy in a multicultural democracy.

I find the display of emotion in the context of a discussion forum to come across a bit like contestants on "America's Got Talent" speaking about how they've overcome adversity in the hopes that the judges don't notice they really can't sing.

Would you prefer it if I preface every comment by saying that I light a little candle, every night, for all those suffering in the world?
Perhaps I should shed a single, prefect tear, just for the cameras? Cry just enough to let you know I'm human?
Or, you know, type words in to that effect anyway.

Would you give my opinions more weight then?

Maybe you shut the * up and * off out of this thread.

If you have some way of proving me incorrect about anything, feel free to do so. I'd prefer it if your opinion had some basis to it though. Some meat. Argue the point, you know?
Come up with something more substantial which actually addresses the problems at hand. I've been considerably more polite than those addressing me, and also some other posters from the last few pages.

 

[Episode IV]

What the *?

He's talking about bad things that happened to him you *en peanut.

No, The ones in question were the earlier ones where his contribution consisted of listing a whole heaps of things with no particular application.
Rape murder, theft, etc etc etc. Twice, I think, from memory.

What I actually said, and I quote directly, was

"I was referring to your posting style before that. On two occasions at least, your posting history has consisted of little more than a list of bad things that happen. To everyone, at some point in history.
It has about as much use a condom vending machine in the Vatican when it comes to resolving any gap issues in Australia. It is inflammatory, rhetorical, polarising, and a complete waste of everyone's time other than the me-toos who give you a lot of likes in support."

Those two posts were not directly referring to things that happened to him personally, he was talking about the Aboriginal People.

This was what he was referring to when he said he'd "asked nicely" for me not to refer to him as lad:
"Lad ? Would you like to refer to me as boy next? Keep the derogatory crap out of it or I won't bother responding again."

I mean if that's what passes for asking nicely these days, then... well. The language certainly is changing, isn't it.

 

[Freomaniac]

This is like boasting about large worldwide cattle, sheep, and chicken populations as evidence to our kindness towards animals lol

good point...

Strange you brought that up about Live Stock.

I remember a random post on a ross lyon thread many years ago.... Briefly talked about Animal cruelty and ethical treatment of Animals.

One random dockers poster said that bashing a cow or sheep to death with a bloody sledgehammer was considered "ethical".

I replied back to that poster. What do you see at unethical? Having Tough Man Tony abbott wearing budgie smugglers and teabagging livestock to death? lol

 

[bzparkes]

I replied back to that poster. What do you see at unethical? Having Tough Man Tony abbott wearing budgie smugglers and teabagging livestock to death? lol

 

[Freomaniac]

you eagles fans were always right. The average Freo supporter is crazy. No wonder your mods have been good gate keepers of the eagles big footy board lol

 

[Captivating]

Nope you don't. No idea. You hate that I can see straight through you. Dealt with people like you my entire life. Can read you like a book. That is how little you listen and how little you know. I am not asking for Aboriginal languages to be taught in schools, I am asking for Aboriginal students to be empowered by schools to maintain a connection to culture, language and country.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with this. Establish schools where they have a core curriculum whoch is set nationally and then tailor the rest of the curriculum based on the school's core objective, be it, a Jewish school, an Adventist school or an Aboriginal school.

Is their value adding aboriginal language to the core curriculum of all schools in the country - no, not at all.