Society/Culture The tax system explained in beer

[geelong_crazy26]

You're actually the one that brings up your parents (specifically, daddy) all the time.

If the employee doesn't want to work that extra time it's less likely - in my opinion - because they've done a mental calculation of their real hourly rate once the tax is taken out, and more to do with a general mentality of not wanting to work more, or sacrifice their lifestyle for additional income. A point that's often missed by both sides of politics when discussing this topic.

What you value your time at, versus someone else their own time will be highly subjective, if I offered you $18.29 / hr (gross) to do a job - would you do it? Or do you value your time higher than that, and are willing to sacrifice doing that work in order to spend your time doing something else?

I don't know what your trying to argue, socialism has failed each and every time because people will not work hard and take risks for the benefit of big government, not once has it been a success. Capitalism is not perfect but you just have to look at capitalist countries in Europe and Asia and compare them to socialist countries in Europe and Asia. Capitalism produces are far superior quality of life.

I would not do a job for $18.29 personally and I will not take a risk on an investment for a small return, people will still tho work extra hours and take more risks is the compensation is high enough.

 

[11sjw]

Is it me or are RD and GC26 yelling at clouds at opposite ends of the sky?

 

[Mofra]

Is it me or are RD and GC26 yelling at clouds at opposite ends of the sky?

Anti-cloud-yellist.

Post reported, enjoy your ban.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Firstly, I'm comparing median income Australians to the median income Australians of way way way back in the pre-2000s.
Secondly, if poor people have it so good why don't the current rich people live the same?
Thirdly, I have stated this to you before, if there were 11 people at a table and 10 of them had a bowl of ice cream for dessert, the 11th could have an MCG-sized ice cream and I would not give a shite, but in reality what happens is the 11th has an MCG-sized ice cream and the expense of the other ten. It is not jealousy, it is thuggery.

1. Changes in Australia from the pre-2000s has nothing to with rich people. More to do with climate change polices, high levels if immigration, a bad IR system and a government that taxes and spends too much.

2.Why do you keep on comparing yourself to rich people ? I went to 1 of Melbourne's most expensive Schools and so I have a number of friends who have families with much more money than me. In fact 1 of the students in my year levels family was worth a few $billion so if I compared myself to these super rich families I would get miserable too.

3.Totaly false , money gets recirculated while ice cream does not. Also there is nothing fair about making something that is not equal, equal.

If a business owner invest 100% of the capital required to set up a business why is he not than entitled to 100% of the profit ?

If someone thinks they are entitled to a share of a business profits than they should invest some capital into the business.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Is it me or are RD and GC26 yelling at clouds at opposite ends of the sky?

No I am just stating the obvious that socialism has failed each and every single time its been tried. Many on this board can not accept this.

 

[owen87]

I don't know what your trying to argue, socialism has failed each and every time because people will not work hard and take risks for the benefit of big government, not once has it been a success. Capitalism is not perfect but you just have to look at capitalist countries in Europe and Asia and compare them to socialist countries in Europe and Asia. Capitalism produces are far superior quality of life.

I would not do a job for $18.29 personally and I will not take a risk on an investment for a small return, people will still tho work extra hours and take more risks is the compensation is high enough.

I'm just trying to unpack your views of what should actually be done about those people who don't inherit the opportunities that you did, and what level of social safety net should be provided in order to help ensure we don't live in a society on the verge of anarchy - as much as some would love to see anarchy rule of course.

 

[11sjw]

Anti-cloud-yellist.

Post reported, enjoy your ban.

Who said I was against it?

 

[RupieDupie]

1. Changes in Australia from the pre-2000s has nothing to with rich people. More to do with climate change polices, high levels if immigration, a bad IR system and a government that taxes and spends too much.

2.Why do you keep on comparing yourself to rich people ? I went to 1 of Melbourne's most expensive Schools and so I have a number of friends who have families with much more money than me. In fact 1 of the students in my year levels family was worth a few $billion so if I compared myself to these super rich families I would get miserable too.

3.Totaly false , money gets recirculated while ice cream does not. Also there is nothing fair about making something that is not equal, equal.

If a business owner invest 100% of the capital required to set up a business why is he not than entitled to 100% of the profit ?

If someone thinks they are entitled to a share of a business profits than they should invest some capital into the business.

1. Wouldn’t this contradict your statement that rich people are improving lives?

2. I was addressing your statement which compares poor people today with rich people one century ago. The comparison came from you.

3. Awesome, so when everyone checks their bank account tomorrow they’ll all have the same as the rich... the last part of your sentence makes no sense.

Finally, back to my post, the person who owns the business could have seventy five lambos and an island in the Caribbean for all I care, I’m only concerned when people have to pay obscene amounts of money and do more work because of these degenerates.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I'm just trying to unpack your views of what should actually be done about those people who don't inherit the opportunities that you did, and what level of social safety net should be provided in order to help ensure we don't live in a society on the verge of anarchy - as much as some would love to see anarchy rule of course.

I think we need to take step back, why do I and others on the right want to cut back on government spending ?

Two reasons
1. We have a large government deficit and debt so we have no choice but to reduce expenditure.
2. Because in an economy with low taxes and low government spending wages will be higher and costs of living lower, people will not need as much help from the government and those who do we will be better able to look after.

So what cuts would I like to see ? I made a thread about this a while ago, essentially I would like to see what was in the 2014 federal budget.

Some of the idea I would like to see include the following.

1.Stricter enforcement and greater mutual obligation requirements for those on the dole
2.Tighter screening of those on the disability pension
3.Tighter eligibility for those on the aged care pension

4.Tax cuts for parents who send their children too private schools
5.Closing down small public schools In metropolitan areas and merging them with bigger schools
6.Less commonwealth supported HECS places at university especially in areas that don't lead to many jobs.
7.Student who use HECS to repay a greater amount

8.GP co-payment of $10
9.Tax cuts for those who have private health insurance

10.Shut down or sell the ABC and SBS

 

[geelong_crazy26]

1. Wouldn’t this contradict your statement that rich people are improving lives?

2. I was addressing your statement which compares poor people today with rich people one century ago. The comparison came from you.

3. Awesome, so when everyone checks their bank account tomorrow they’ll all have the same as the rich... the last part of your sentence makes no sense.

Finally, back to my post, the person who owns the business could have seventy five lambos and an island in the Caribbean for all I care, I’m only concerned when people have to pay obscene amounts of money and do more work because of these degenerates.

1. Rich people are improving peoples life's , sadly left wing political ideology has held us back over the past 10 years.

2 and 3. Who cares how much the rich have , just worry about yourself that is my point.

So what you want is a share of a business profits when you invested 0 capital in setting the business up ?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Peta Credlin just on sky news , every month tax payers spend $1.5 billon a year just on interest repayments.

This doesn't even reduce the debt at all, its just interest and it keeps going up and up.

 

[Bombermania]

I think we need to take step back, why do I and others on the right want to cut back on government spending ?

Two reasons
1. We have a large government deficit and debt so we have no choice but to reduce expenditure.
2. Because in an economy with low taxes and low government spending wages will be higher and costs of living lower, people will not need as much help from the government and those who do we will be better able to look after.

So what cuts would I like to see ? I made a thread about this a while ago, essentially I would like to see what was in the 2014 federal budget.

Some of the idea I would like to see include the following.

1.Stricter enforcement and greater mutual obligation requirements for those on the dole
2.Tighter screening of those on the disability pension
3.Tighter eligibility for those on the aged care pension

4.Tax cuts for parents who send their children too private schools
5.Closing down small public schools In metropolitan areas and merging them with bigger schools
6.Less commonwealth supported HECS places at university especially in areas that don't lead to many jobs.
7.Student who use HECS to repay a greater amount

8.GP co-payment of $10
9.Tax cuts for those who have private health insurance

10.Shut down or sell the ABC and SBS

People on the right may want to cut government spending but when push comes to shove they only focus on the social welfare budget instead of the countless areas that they could cut back, yet when someone suggests areas outside of social welfare, the right which is said to want less government spending then turns around and opposes such changes, also this federal government has been very wasteful with its spending.

Why not add the loopholes which are costing the budget billions, if the government was serious about spending then it would do a fair dinkum job rather than just focus on social welfare spending, I notice with your list does little to tackle the structural problems with the budget and in the case of 9. just adds to the budget problem because there is nothing stopping a person with private health insurance from using a public hospital.

 

[RupieDupie]

1. Rich people are improving peoples life's , sadly left wing political ideology has held us back over the past 10 years.

2 and 3. Who cares how much the rich have , just worry about yourself that is my point.

So what you want is a share of a business profits when you invested 0 capital in setting the business up ?

1. Chinese President is wealthy...
2. & 3. Already answered, when their greed doesn’t impact on others

Nope wouldn’t want a cent, most Australians are perfectly capable of working and making their own money and with this income they should be able to afford housing, power etc

 

[Bombermania]

Peta Credlin just on sky news , every month tax payers spend $1.5 billon a year just on interest repayments.

This doesn't even reduce the debt at all, its just interest and it keeps going up and up.

Nothing stopping taxpayers or their superfund from buying government bonds, when I last looked, the 10-year yield was about 2.7% but have not looked for a week or so.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

People on the right may want to cut government spending but when push comes to shove they only focus on the social welfare budget instead of the countless areas that they could cut back, yet when someone suggests areas outside of social welfare, the right which is said to want less government spending then turns around and opposes such changes, also this federal government has been very wasteful with its spending.

Why not add the loopholes which are costing the budget billions, if the government was serious about spending then it would do a fair dinkum job rather than just focus on social welfare spending, I notice with your list does little to tackle the structural problems with the budget and in the case of 9. just adds to the budget problem because there is nothing stopping a person with private health insurance from using a public hospital.

When you talk about closing loopholes which in some cases are the right thing to do you are not talking about cutting government spending, you are talking about increasing taxation.

If you want to talk about the major structural problem the biggest one is that 10% of the population pays more tax than the rest put together and the bottom 50% pays only 2% of all income tax in this country.

Tax discounts for those with private health insurance will encourage more people into the private system which saves the government money.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

1. Chinese President is wealthy...
2. & 3. Already answered, when their greed doesn’t impact on others

Nope wouldn’t want a cent, most Australians are perfectly capable of working and making their own money and with this income they should be able to afford housing, power etc

If most Australians are capable of working for their own money what is the problem ?

I will repeat if you don't invest any money into a business than you can not expect to see any of the profit.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Nothing stopping taxpayers or their superfund from buying government bonds, when I last looked, the 10-year yield was about 2.7% but have not looked for a week or so.

Not sure what your point is ? the interest will still have to be repaid and the budget mess continues.

 

[QuietB]

Principle.

Has to be real estate agent

You've still not told me what the income requirement is to be this greedy pig, human garbage, degenerate thug, bully that you keep calling referring to?



Conversely; the average Australian homeowner has seen the value of their properties skyrocket. Does that also make them human garbage? Should they then sell their house significantly below the market rate in order to not be a greedy pig?

Largely thanks to immigration

 

[Bombermania]

When you talk about closing loopholes which in some cases are the right thing to do you are not talking about cutting government spending, you are talking about increasing taxation.

If you want to talk about the major structural problem the biggest one is that 10% of the population pays more tax than the rest put together and the bottom 50% pays only 2% of all income tax in this country.

Tax discounts for those with private health insurance will encourage more people into the private system which saves the government money.

There will always be a part of the population that doesn't pay taxes whether they are retirees or children or people not in employment.

If your concern is about the budget being in deficit then you can cut spending but you also need to ensure you are not losing revenue through tax loopholes.

If your real concern is how government spends its revenue then that is fine but that shouldn't be dressed up as concern for whether the budget is in deficit or surplus.

 

[Bombermania]

Not sure what your point is ? the interest will still have to be repaid and the budget mess continues.

Government bonds can be bought by investors.

 

[QuietB]

I don't know what your trying to argue, socialism has failed each and every time because people will not work hard and take risks for the benefit of big government

China?

You cannot credibly make that argument. As Trump himself says China are destroying America. Not sure I want to live in China but at the same time I am not sure it makes any difference where anyone lives. The political class rule for themselves in China, in the USA, in Australia. It is all the same.

 

[sherb]

1. Rich people are improving peoples life's , sadly left wing political ideology has held us back over the past 10 years.

Their own.

 

[sherb]

I think we need to take step back, why do I and others on the right want to cut back on government spending ?

Two reasons
1. We have a large government deficit and debt so we have no choice but to reduce expenditure.

Plus the rest of the regurgitated crap..............

Actually, a deficit can also be addressed on the revenue side.

Tax avoidance by the rich and corporates would be a good place to start.

 

[RupieDupie]

If most Australians are capable of working for their own money what is the problem ?

I will repeat if you don't invest any money into a business than you can not expect to see any of the profit.

Cost of living

Who gives a s**t?

 

[Frank Bunn]

I think we need to take step back, why do I and others on the right want to cut back on government spending ?

Two reasons
1. We have a large government deficit and debt so we have no choice but to reduce expenditure.
2. Because in an economy with low taxes and low government spending wages will be higher and costs of living lower, people will not need as much help from the government and those who do we will be better able to look after.

So what cuts would I like to see ? I made a thread about this a while ago, essentially I would like to see what was in the 2014 federal budget.

Some of the idea I would like to see include the following.

1.Stricter enforcement and greater mutual obligation requirements for those on the dole
2.Tighter screening of those on the disability pension
3.Tighter eligibility for those on the aged care pension

4.Tax cuts for parents who send their children too private schools
5.Closing down small public schools In metropolitan areas and merging them with bigger schools
6.Less commonwealth supported HECS places at university especially in areas that don't lead to many jobs.
7.Student who use HECS to repay a greater amount

8.GP co-payment of $10
9.Tax cuts for those who have private health insurance

10.Shut down or sell the ABC and SBS

I would also like to see the Commonwealth GST distributions reviewed. We are looking at $62.4 billion in 2017-18 rising by an increased 5.4% to $65.8 billion in 2018/19.

For example, Victoria will receive a lion's share of that due to increased population, $14.9 billion to $16.8 billion. Victoria won't spend another $2 billion on infrastructure, and it is already rolling in cash due to stamp duty from apartment sales and land development in the west. It's pretty obvious the Victorian government has got cash to burn when it can throw a quarter of a billion at the AFL.

If the federal government has any intention of reducing the national debt it needs to reduce the amounts given to the states.