This years draft

[WaynesWorld19]

You'd get a first round pick for Stiffy, but probably in the region of 8-12, definitely not top 4.

Spot on .....Stiffy is still very highly regarded in the AFL

 

[King Elvis]

I think the players who are realistically on our radar are;

Johnston
Hartlett
Sidebottom
Schoenmakers
O'Keefe

 

[crowsarethebest]

A team like Geelong would look at Johncock. He'd top off what is already an awesome defense. They need a small defender- they have Josh Hunt/Wojcinski but not the elite small backman. However I think it's unlikely their first rounder will be on the table as Thompson likes to keep their 1st rounder (like most coaches). I'd still keep Stiffy though... he was in AA form earlier in the year. With a decent holiday hopefully he can regain his form.

 

[Stiffy_18]

A team like Geelong would look at Johncock. He'd top off what is already an awesome defense. They need a small defender- they have Josh Hunt/Wojcinski but not the elite small backman. However I think it's unlikely their first rounder will be on the table as Thompson likes to keep their 1st rounder (like most coaches). I'd still keep Stiffy though... he was in AA form earlier in the year. With a decent holiday hopefully he can regain his form.

Thats all well and good if not for one major issue: "The salary cap"

Geelong are having trouble keeping their own players, let alone chasing after other teams' highly paid players!

Geelong won't be going anywhere near anyone that has a contract. What they will do is trade some of their depth for draft picks so they can keep their big guns!

I do have a sneaky suspicion that Sydney might be open to trading for Kenny McGregor for late pick. We might consider it just to get away from paying his contract out in full!

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I do have a sneaky suspicion that Sydney might be open to trading for Kenny McGregor for late pick. We might consider it just to get away from paying his contract out in full!

On the smaller SCG he would do OK

 

[atcocc]

I think the players who are realistically on our radar are;

Johnston
Hartlett
Sidebottom
Schoenmakers
O'Keefe

assuming johnston and hartlett is gone hopefully we can get

1.sidebottom
2.okeefe
3.schoenmakers (hopefully he slips to our third pick)

 

[WaynesWorld19]

assuming johnston and hartlett is gone hopefully we can get
1.sidebottom
2.okeefe
3.schoenmakers (hopefully he slips to our third pick)

Would be very surprized if we do not have the option of drafting Johnston ......maybe slightly over priced but a good pickup IMO .....will be a very difficult AFL matchup

 

[atcocc]

I hope he is available cause i would love to have him its just that according to the d and t board richmond and nth melbourne are dead keen on him

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I hope he is available cause i would love to have him its just that according to the d and t board richmond and nth melbourne are dead keen on him

They'd be keen on many players ......I can just see him being available as maybe Trengove

 

[DJ75]

I want to throw an idea out there that might really annoy some, but I think could work well in our advantage.
How about this trade:

We give S. Thompson and G. Johncock to Port in exchange for pick 4, a swap around of our round 3 picks and A. Thompson.

Reasoning:
Crows perspective (why we should)

I don't rate S Thompson. He is a liability in finals. He turns the ball over under pressure and I can't see this changing. Anyone who thinks he is a future Captain must want mediocrity in the future.

I'm sick of Johncock showing up every summer with a pot belly. He was supposed to be playing in our midfield by know, but just can't commit himself to getting really fit. His form has slipped and it appears he is not enjoying his footy. I see a limited number of years left with him.

Positives: we get pick 4 (and a chance for Vickery or Hurley or Hartlett or pretty much whoever we want), we pick up a tough inside player to replace Shirley (A Thompson) and upgrade from pick 46 to pick 38.
Negatives (why we shouldn't): We already have a lack of mid-level experience and this will make it worse.

Weighing it all up, I think we would be better off doing this deal. Some short term pain, but some long term gain.

From Port's perspective:
They get:
An experienced tough midfielder to support their plethora of young outside runners.
An upgrade on P Burgoyne in their backlines.
Two ex-Port players.
Two players who, given they played in the GF in 2007, could actually help them get back there very quickly.
Two players who will help re-ignite their supporters interest and might help attract a crowd.

It could be a risky play by the crows, but given what we need I think it is preferable than trying to trade a Reilly or Knights etc...

Thoughts?

 

[WALL-e]

If we were to give up 2 AA players i'd want more in return.

1st 2nd and A Thomson

 

[Jars458]

Johncock and Thompson are going nowhwere. Both in our top 7 or 8 players.

You do need some good palyers in your side to help the youngsgters you know.

 

[Truck Rutten]

I want to throw an idea out there that might really annoy some, but I think could work well in our advantage.
How about this trade:

We give S. Thompson and G. Johncock to Port in exchange for pick 4, a swap around of our round 3 picks and A. Thompson.

Reasoning:
Crows perspective (why we should)

I don't rate S Thompson. He is a liability in finals. He turns the ball over under pressure and I can't see this changing. Anyone who thinks he is a future Captain must want mediocrity in the future.

I'm sick of Johncock showing up every summer with a pot belly. He was supposed to be playing in our midfield by know, but just can't commit himself to getting really fit. His form has slipped and it appears he is not enjoying his footy. I see a limited number of years left with him.

Positives: we get pick 4 (and a chance for Vickery or Hurley or Hartlett or pretty much whoever we want), we pick up a tough inside player to replace Shirley (A Thompson) and upgrade from pick 46 to pick 38.
Negatives (why we shouldn't): We already have a lack of mid-level experience and this will make it worse.

Weighing it all up, I think we would be better off doing this deal. Some short term pain, but some long term gain.

From Port's perspective:
They get:
An experienced tough midfielder to support their plethora of young outside runners.
An upgrade on P Burgoyne in their backlines.
Two ex-Port players.
Two players who, given they played in the GF in 2007, could actually help them get back there very quickly.
Two players who will help re-ignite their supporters interest and might help attract a crowd.

It could be a risky play by the crows, but given what we need I think it is preferable than trying to trade a Reilly or Knights etc...

Thoughts?

You probably should lay off the crack pipe before posting in future

Your opinion of Thommo is totally unfounded. The guy will rightfully finish in the top 5 in our B&F for the 2nd consecutive year and is undoubtedly our #1 midfielder now. Why on earth would we want to get rid of our best ball winning, clearance getting hardnut???

 

[Vader]

I want to throw an idea out there that might really annoy some, but I think could work well in our advantage.
How about this trade:

We give S. Thompson and G. Johncock to Port in exchange for pick 4, a swap around of our round 3 picks and A. Thompson.

Reasoning:
Crows perspective (why we should)

I don't rate S Thompson. He is a liability in finals. He turns the ball over under pressure and I can't see this changing. Anyone who thinks he is a future Captain must want mediocrity in the future.

I'm sick of Johncock showing up every summer with a pot belly. He was supposed to be playing in our midfield by know, but just can't commit himself to getting really fit. His form has slipped and it appears he is not enjoying his footy. I see a limited number of years left with him.

Positives: we get pick 4 (and a chance for Vickery or Hurley or Hartlett or pretty much whoever we want), we pick up a tough inside player to replace Shirley (A Thompson) and upgrade from pick 46 to pick 38.
Negatives (why we shouldn't): We already have a lack of mid-level experience and this will make it worse.

Weighing it all up, I think we would be better off doing this deal. Some short term pain, but some long term gain.

From Port's perspective:
They get:
An experienced tough midfielder to support their plethora of young outside runners.
An upgrade on P Burgoyne in their backlines.
Two ex-Port players.
Two players who, given they played in the GF in 2007, could actually help them get back there very quickly.
Two players who will help re-ignite their supporters interest and might help attract a crowd.

It could be a risky play by the crows, but given what we need I think it is preferable than trying to trade a Reilly or Knights etc...

Thoughts?

I can understand where you're coming from with Johncock. If the right offer were to be put on the table, then I wouldn't be upset if he were traded.

Thompson is a different matter. Take a look at our midfield in 2010...

McLeod, Goodwin & Edwards will all be gone. 2008 has made it very clear that they have one year left in them at best - I personally expect 2009 to be one year too many for Goodwin & McLeod and it should be Edwards' last hurrah as well.

Shirley, Massie & Doughty will all be gone as well. Assuming we play 22 games next year, we'll have just two midfielders with 100+ games to their credit - Thompson & Reilly. VB would play his 100th in the early rounds of 2010. From VB it's another 26 games back to Knights, who played his 50th last weekend. The importance of players in that 100-200 game bracket has been shown by Jenny in another thread.

So.. from 7 midfielders with 100+ games in 2008 we will be dropping down to just 3 in 2010. And you want us to trade away the most experienced of the remaining trio?

Right now, Thompson is invaluable because of the Gary Ayres' Stolen Generation.

As for the price you have suggested Port should pay - it's very definitely on the light side. For two quality players the likes of Thompson & Johncock, I'd be looking at a minimum of two first round picks (including #4) plus their 2nd round pick. Thomson doesn't even come into the equation - he's not even worth a 3rd rounder given that he couldn't get a game in the 13th ranked side in the competition.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

I can understand where you're coming from with Johncock. If the right offer were to be put on the table, then I wouldn't be upset if he were traded.

Thompson is a different matter. Take a look at our midfield in 2010...

McLeod, Goodwin & Edwards will all be gone. 2008 has made it very clear that they have one year left in them at best - I personally expect 2009 to be one year too many for Goodwin & McLeod and it should be Edwards' last hurrah as well.

Shirley, Massie & Doughty will all be gone as well. Assuming we play 22 games next year, we'll have just two midfielders with 100+ games to their credit - Thompson & Reilly. VB would play his 100th in the early rounds of 2010. From VB it's another 26 games back to Knights, who played his 50th last weekend. The importance of players in that 100-200 game bracket has been shown by Jenny in another thread.

So.. from 7 midfielders with 100+ games in 2008 we will be dropping down to just 3 in 2010. And you want us to trade away the most experienced of the remaining trio?

Right now, Thompson is invaluable because of the Gary Ayres' Stolen Generation.

As for the price you have suggested Port should pay - it's very definitely on the light side. For two quality players the likes of Thompson & Johncock, I'd be looking at a minimum of two first round picks (including #4) plus their 2nd round pick. Thomson doesn't even come into the equation - he's not even worth a 3rd rounder given that he couldn't get a game in the 13th ranked side in the competition.

Which is why Shirley, Doughty, Goodwin should be delisted this off-season. Must get game time and responsibility into younger midfielders.

Massie i now count as a pure defender, McLeod will play on (though i hope he turns up with some intensity next year), Edwards is the veteran i consider the best leader of the 3 so he can stay for one more...but no gold tickets, he must keep up to this years standards and play predominantly up forward.

Sounds like Goodwin is staying which i find concerning unless there are deep cuts in the next bracket.

 

[Drummond]

The draft will be absolutely vital as it always is. I think we have a glaring need in a few areas so it’s important we have a lot of picks and hopefully have quite a few picks inside the first 2-3 rounds as we did last season. However with Jericho as probably our only realistic trade target we’ll probably only go in with the picks currently allocated to us. I’ve identified a few key areas we need to fill:

1. A key midfielder. We need someone who has pace, the ability to break the lines and who has excellent disposal. Should be strong overhead and having the ability to kick goals. Sounds like Dangerfield, so basically another one. IMO we have enough midfielders capable of winning the hard ball in Thommo, VB, Shirley and co so we don’t have a burning desire to gain another one. I wouldn’t be against picking up a tough nut mid but in reality most players can be taught how to do this so going out of your way to find one probably isn’t the best approach. We need more mids who can hit leading forwards regularly as well as having the ability to go forward and kick a few goals.

2. A tall key forward. We urgently need a CHF, someone who is extremely fit and can take a strong mark. They don’t necessarily need to be able to kick a lot of goals, all that’s required is they have a big tank so they can push up the ground. Tippett looms as a FF, someone who will take a lot of contested marks and hopefully average 2-3 goals per game. Once he builds up his fitness and learns how to make space for himself he will be a very good key forward. Walker is more of a leading forward who doesn’t often leave the forward fifty because leading is where his strength lies. Sellar could potentially fill the CHF role but there are just too many question marks surrounding him to avoid drafting a CHF. Workrate, ability to push up the ground as well as taking pack marks are the key requirements. The only problem is this type of player is often drafted very early, and at pick #10 there might be none of this type around, at least no elite talents. Then comes the decision on whether we draft a midfielder first or a CHF.

3. A small forward. We drafted Jacky with the hope of him becoming an electric goal sneak however even if he does make the grade I see him as more of a wingman with the ability to push into the midfield. Although very early he doesn’t appear to be a goalkicking small forward who will apply a heap of defensive pressure and someone who can do the freakish. We need some unpredictability in attack and while we are stockpiling a decent group of key forwards, we are soon going to be too top heavy in attack and seriously lacking a small forward who can crumb the loose balls.

4. A project ruckman. We have Maric, a player who should lead our ruck stocks for another 8 or so years; however I have my doubts over Griffin. He’ll need to put on a whole heap of weight in order to better deal with the rigours of the AFL. Has potential but a lot of queries surround him. After these two we have Tippett and Moran, both capable of filling in in the ruck but neither are best suited to this position. I certainly wouldn’t be going out of my way to draft a ruckman as their development is so hard to predict. I hope a ruckman slides to the rookie draft so we can concentrate on filling our other more immediate needs first.

So in summary I think our first need should be to draft a genuine midfield talent. We have a lot of solid, honest midfielders but Vince and Mackay are probably the only ones with reliable disposal. We need a quick, strong midfielder who is an elite user of the ball. We still have the defensive posts covered for the next few years so I wouldn’t be in a hurry to draft another key defender. We still need forwards, a tall and a small so I would be looking to add one for each category. Basically we need to add more class to our midfield and more scoring power.

 

[Vader]

Which is why Shirley, Doughty, Goodwin should be delisted this off-season. Must get game time and responsibility into younger midfielders.

It's already too late in some respects.

Even if our fleet of youngsters play every minute of every game in 2009, they still won't make it to the 100 game mark by the end of 2010. That's just the mathematics of the situation. Reilly should play his 100th next year, with VB following suit early in 2010. That's it.

Delisting Shirley, Doughty & Goodwin will mean more games for those who will be starting their careers - Dangermouse, Otten, Petrenko, Cook, Jacky & co. It will help bring the existing group closer to the 100 game mark, with Vince, Symes, Douglas & Porplyzia likely to play their 50th next year. It will help, but nothing can get them there before 2011 (and most likely 2012).

The 100-200 game group though will forever remain the Stolen Generation, those MIA because of the list vandalism perpetrated by one G. Ayres.

 

[dplggr47]

^damn Ayres...

I want to throw an idea out there that might really annoy some, but I think could work well in our advantage.
How about this trade:

We give S. Thompson and G. Johncock to Port in exchange for pick 4, a swap around of our round 3 picks and A. Thompson.

Reasoning:
Crows perspective (why we should)

I don't rate S Thompson. He is a liability in finals. He turns the ball over under pressure and I can't see this changing. Anyone who thinks he is a future Captain must want mediocrity in the future.

I'm sick of Johncock showing up every summer with a pot belly. He was supposed to be playing in our midfield by know, but just can't commit himself to getting really fit. His form has slipped and it appears he is not enjoying his footy. I see a limited number of years left with him.

Positives: we get pick 4 (and a chance for Vickery or Hurley or Hartlett or pretty much whoever we want), we pick up a tough inside player to replace Shirley (A Thompson) and upgrade from pick 46 to pick 38.
Negatives (why we shouldn't): We already have a lack of mid-level experience and this will make it worse.

Weighing it all up, I think we would be better off doing this deal. Some short term pain, but some long term gain.

From Port's perspective:
They get:
An experienced tough midfielder to support their plethora of young outside runners.
An upgrade on P Burgoyne in their backlines.
Two ex-Port players.
Two players who, given they played in the GF in 2007, could actually help them get back there very quickly.
Two players who will help re-ignite their supporters interest and might help attract a crowd.

It could be a risky play by the crows, but given what we need I think it is preferable than trying to trade a Reilly or Knights etc...

Thoughts?

lol, why don't we just trade our whole core team away...Worsfold demands 2 top 3 picks for Kerr, while you demand a single top 4 pick for possibly our best midfielder (Thommo) and one of our top 10 players (Johncock)...plus in return we get Thomson as a sweetner. adding Thomson in, does nothing for that deal.

 

[seababoon]

What Two Players are we hoping to draft with our first two picks?

realistically, what two players would we pick with our first two picks this year? who do you think will still be available..

 

[DJ75]

I guess i got shot down then!!
The problem is that people obviously rate Thompson a lot more than I do!
I ask this question, can you point to some high pressure games in which he has performed well? I can point to a few he hasn't!!!
In my opinion he is a bit of a downhill skier - great when we are up and running and on top. Next to useless when we are under the pump.

I do take everyone's point about our vacuum in experience (as I pointed out in my initial post). However, to get a top KP player (which is CLEARLY our most pressing need), you need a top draft pick and these aren't given away cheap. Does anyone honestly think Port would give us pick 4 for Thompson?

I am however pleased that you guys are willing to consider a trade for Johncock if the price was right. Again however, there is now way we get pick 4 for him.

 

[DJ75]

^damn Ayres...lol, why don't we just trade our whole core team away...Worsfold demands 2 top 3 picks for Kerr, while you demand a single top 4 pick for possibly our best midfielder (Thommo) and one of our top 10 players (Johncock)...plus in return we get Thomson as a sweetner. adding Thomson in, does nothing for that deal.

Apart from being a knob, Kerr>>>>>>>>>>Thompson

 

[DJ75]

You probably should lay off the crack pipe before posting in future

Your opinion of Thommo is totally unfounded. The guy will rightfully finish in the top 5 in our B&F for the 2nd consecutive year and is undoubtedly our #1 midfielder now. Why on earth would we want to get rid of our best ball winning, clearance getting hardnut???

Yeh, you're right Thompson is our best midfielder....except when it matters.

 

[WALL-e]

Re: What Two Players are we hoping to draft with our first two picks?

1 - Hope Hartlett, if not Sidebottom, if not Zeibell, if not Blease

2 - Corneilius, if not Blease, if not Shoenmakers,

3 - Rockliff, if not ??? Maybe Hill

 

[TheLeftFist8]

1. A key midfielder.
2. A tall key forward.
3. A small forward.
4. A project ruckman. .

1. Totally agree that our 1st pick should be the best midfielder available...this is what has lost us matches against St. Kilda and Collingwood.

2. Agree that we should draft a young tall somewhere. Hopefully a good one remains for our second pick. There are many question marks over our talls, and as Drummond identified, CHF is the problem area. If Gill (and McG of course) does go I would be drafting a young tall and Todd Grima.

3. A decent one wouldn't hurt and I'd try to get another but i feel the man we want may already be on the list: Myke Cook

4. Agree again! Looking at how long they take to develop I wouldn't be against drafting one, and even rookie listing another with the hope that 1 out of 2 becomes AFL standard in 3 years time.

 

[Vince Van Mackay]

Re: What Two Players are we hoping to draft with our first two picks?

A marathon runner that started playing the game 2 weeks ago.

And a undersized ruckman who will be drafted as a forward.

Should both debut in 2012.