Three talls - will it work?

[Ricketts]

Depends on what you define as "contributing heavily". I think that with 3 talls they can't all kick 5 in the same match, but they can all contribute by taking marks and dishing off, shepherding for others, allowing isolated defenders, defensive pressure etc etc. It's not all about goals kicked.

Definitely agree. With 3 in the side they won't all be taking bags of marks and kicking bags of goals, but they can certainly all contribute well.

But i just think the contributions would be higher and more well rounded if there was 2 tall forwards and then a different style of player to compliment them.

 

[Cattery]

Cattery
Remember those witches hats you candidly spoke of, well they beat St Kilda the following week in case you've forgotten.
And don't think Varcoe will dramatically start kicking goals a la Stephen Milne, he just doesn't do it.

Yep, I'm aware of that, but they're still the softest side going around a lot of the time, don't give a yelp when under the cosh as they were against us.
Agree about Varcoe, but he wasn't there in the first two matches and we managed okay.

What we need is an even input from SJ, Shannon, and Chappy, it's not just the talls who let the side down last week, there's more to it than just 3 talls or 2 talls, the small fwds were just as pathetic.

No argument there, we were beaten pretty much across the board last week, but that's one match.
The fact remains we've won two flags with just the two tall forwards, and with that formula we were two zip at the start of the season; since the change we've won one and lost two, so I have to stick with my opinion that it isn't working and ain't gonna work.

Let me ask you, do you still believe we're a better side with the current set up as opposed to the old one?

 

[meto]

Let me ask you, do you still believe we're a better side with the current set up as opposed to the old one?

Cattery,

I understand your concerns a big win then a 6 goal drubbing, its really annoying when the result can change lke that in the space of a week.

One thing I'm sure of is, we struggled for goals against the Saints in that last granny, it was the backline that held them pretty much goalless in the second half, that's what won it for us.

We need to be more adaptable up fwd, lets face it the smalls were bloody aweful last week as well, the mids were weak, (Albett excluded) delivery was sub-standard.
Even Chapman was nowhere!!!
Podsiadly still showed his class with 6 marks and 14 possessions on a very bad day.
The others namely Hawkins and Mooney should be embarressed.

Fact is, its 2010, Mooney and Hawkins are the ones who are the so called senior players, at the moment the Pods is leading the way, its up to the coaching staff in instill some pride in these two to lift their game.

At the moment its the old members letting the team down, but that's the smalls as well, I hope Christiansen shows some spark because we got nothing from the smalls last week.

 

[Partridge]

Fact is, its 2010, Mooney and Hawkins are the ones who are the so called senior players, at the moment the Pods is leading the way, its up to the coaching staff in instill some pride in these two to lift their game.

At the moment its the old members letting the team down, but that's the smalls as well, I hope Christiansen shows some spark because we got nothing from the smalls last week.

Agree that the small forwards did nothing last week - especially Byrnes and Johnson. Chappy tried hard and Ablett when he was there was good. I think though it reinforces the biggest fear many of us had about playing 3 big guys - getting hurt on the rebound. Carlton showed (and other coaches will immediately pick up on it) that you can gamble with a medium defender on one of the big guys, because when it hits the ground they'll kill us.

I just think the game is too quick. We'll get away with it some days, but not consistently, and not against top quality opposition.

 

[cynical]

The 3 talls is a waste of time, its been shown not to work in the past and it didnt work against carlton.

If we had a younger side with a bit more pace you might be able to get away with it but our side is aging and pace needs to be injected.

Steve Johnson is essentially a 4th tall.

The grand final is at the MCG a ground way too big for 3 talls so why bother?

I'd rather they start making tough selection decisions instead of trying to fit everyone in the team.

 

[DanA]

We were playing Pods, Mooney, Hawkins, S.J and Rooke all in th same forwardline. S.J and Rooke don't look fit and are meduim forward. The other three are KP forwards. Chappy was in the midfield so they had to keep 1 small quite and that was Byrnes.

Then when Ablett went forward they isolated him 1 out which left us with 3 talls and two unfit players playing up the field.

I think it's a poorly thought out stratergy.

Forwardline should be:

Chappy Pods Byrnes
Varcoe Mooney S.J

With Rooke as the other player. Ottens providing mismatches up forward in spurts but not an entire game. You're going to get a lot more forward pressure with that team. Swaping out Varcoe for Hawkins loses it completely.

While Varcoe is out it should be Djerkurra playing IMO.

 

[Cattery]

Cattery,

I understand your concerns a big win then a 6 goal drubbing, its really annoying when the result can change lke that in the space of a week.

One thing I'm sure of is, we struggled for goals against the Saints in that last granny, it was the backline that held them pretty much goalless in the second half, that's what won it for us.

We need to be more adaptable up fwd, lets face it the smalls were bloody aweful last week as well, the mids were weak, (Albett excluded) delivery was sub-standard.
Even Chapman was nowhere!!!
Podsiadly still showed his class with 6 marks and 14 possessions on a very bad day.
The others namely Hawkins and Mooney should be embarressed.

Fact is, its 2010, Mooney and Hawkins are the ones who are the so called senior players, at the moment the Pods is leading the way, its up to the coaching staff in instill some pride in these two to lift their game.

At the moment its the old members letting the team down, but that's the smalls as well, I hope Christiansen shows some spark because we got nothing from the smalls last week.

Think my main concern is that the team just isn't as well balanced with the three talls up forward, sure we struggled to kick goals in the GF, and you can no doubt pick other isolated examples as well, but overall we've been one of the highest scoring teams for the last three years so I don't see any concern in that regard personally.

One of the three has to go IMO, whether it be Hawkins or Podsiadly [ very much doubt they'll drop Mooney ] and on current form you'd think it may be Hawkins.

Wouldn't mind seeing young Christiansen get a run myself, from all reports his VFL form has been outstanding, guess the only concern is whether he's physically ready yet.

Forwardline should be:

Chappy Pods Byrnes
Varcoe Mooney S.J

With Rooke as the other player. Ottens providing mismatches up forward in spurts but not an entire game. You're going to get a lot more forward pressure with that team. Swaping out Varcoe for Hawkins loses it completely.

While Varcoe is out it should be Djerkurra playing IMO.

That's close to the set up I'd go with as well, though surely Duncan has earned a spot well ahead of Djerkurra, perhaps even ahead of Varcoe, at least until he gains some match fitness.

 

[DanA]

Another great game by Duncan and I agree he's better than Djerkurra. I only chose Djerkurra because I was looking for forward pressure and Djerkurra is a bit quicker and a better tackler.

More about balance than getting the beat player IMO.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

an extra tall can work, but in geelongs case, no it cant.

at the end of the day, the facts are, when the times that matter arise, you know hawkins and podsiadly arent going to deliver big games, and each and every time there will be a large ammount of supporters wanting one of the two axed. when it comes the big moments, you know its going to be the 3 AA's who rise up and deliver the score down their, Johnson mooney and chapman.

unless we have 3 talls who can all fire and cause havock on big occasions, then there is no point in having them all in the team, who cares about when we play richmond and other horrible sides how the three perform, because when it really counts, it will become a onfield burden

 

[Vdubs]

an extra tall can work, but in geelongs case, no it cant.

at the end of the day, the facts are, when the times that matter arise, you know hawkins and podsiadly arent going to deliver big games, and each and every time there will be a large ammount of supporters wanting one of the two axed. when it comes the big moments, you know its going to be the 3 AA's who rise up and deliver the score down their, Johnson mooney and chapman.

unless we have 3 talls who can all fire and cause havock on big occasions, then there is no point in having them all in the team, who cares about when we play richmond and other horrible sides how the three perform, because when it really counts, it will become a onfield burden

The problem last week was balance, Rooke was underdone and slow and ineffective-Pods is doing his role, and Varcoe's absence was made obvious today-forward pressure, tackling, 9 goal assists.
So the 3 talls can work if it's balanced by likes of Varcoe, Byrnes and Duncan.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

The problem last week was balance, Rooke was underdone and slow and ineffective-Pods is doing his role, and Varcoe's absence was made obvious today-forward pressure, tackling, 9 goal assists.
So the 3 talls can work if it's balanced by likes of Varcoe, Byrnes and Duncan.

i see alota truth in that, the speed and defensive aspect varcoe and rooke add.

but i still think that with the way teams like st kilda, western bulldogs and collingwood run and structure their defense, it will be too costly to have a extra key forward lumbering and not kicking goals.

this will work for us against most, but i do believe against some of the more quality opposition, this is going to fail and make things a field day for their defenses.

 

[James1970]

Depending on the match-ups for each game, I think the Cats may revert to two talls, with Hawkins making way for Stokes when he returns.

 

[meto]

Definitely agree. With 3 in the side they won't all be taking bags of marks and kicking bags of goals, but they can certainly all contribute well.

But i just think the contributions would be higher and more well rounded if there was 2 tall forwards and then a different style of player to compliment them.

Ya Reckon??????????????????

 

[True Blue Cat]

Well really are we playing with 3 tall forwards or 2? I know you can say that just having Hawkins there as the 3rd stretches their defense but if the best 2 tall defenders go to Mooney and Pods and Hawkins remains to be un-damaging (making up words) is there any point? Wouldn't it be better with 2 talls and a small damaging forward?

Although saying this i do realize that there is a better chance of Richmond winning the flag than Bomber dropping Hawkins.

 

[Just do something]

This weeks game v Swans will be intersting with our 3 talls set up. They have some of the best runners from half back at the moment. We cannot afford to allow a Kennelly or Mattner or Malecski to play on Hawkins/Mooney or Pds and just run off when the ball hits the ground.
I still think that it is an issue and im sure all the coaches can see this. No doubt our pressure was great today with Varcoe & Duncan who made some good tackles as well.

 

[witsend]

We'd better not try it next week against Sydney. Their run out of the back will murder us once the ball hits the deck. Huge risk IMO.
I say bring in Scarlo, Ablett and Corey for Hawkins, Hogan and....and....and....

 

[Redemptionin09]

We'd better not try it next week against Sydney. Their run out of the back will murder us once the ball hits the deck. Huge risk IMO.
I say bring in Scarlo, Ablett and Corey for Hawkins, Hogan and....and....and....

it's down to Wojo or Lonergan IMO...unfortunately one of them may miss out....despite both being solid today.

 

[David the Cat]

We'd better not try it next week against Sydney. Their run out of the back will murder us once the ball hits the deck. Huge risk IMO.
I say bring in Scarlo, Ablett and Corey for Hawkins, Hogan and....and....and....

Corey wont be right Wits.

Malceski, Kenneally and Mattner give them their run, and they will have their hands full with Varcoe, SJ and Byrnes. Add GAJ resting down there and Duncan to boot, I think the 3 talls will stay. Its all about how you structure it...

I know I am in the minority here, but I like the 3 talls. If the midfield is on song I see it as a potent mix, and particularly difficult to match up on. It unsettles the structure of the opposing side as well.

I will await the hiding I will get for supporting it, but with Varcoe back and Byrnes in form, ( Stokes to be added perhaps later on) my vote is to persist.

 

[Driveby Punching]

Need to plonk Hawkins in the square if a rebounding defender is being played on him. He just won't be fit enough to keep up otherwise and it's the only way I can see him possibly exploiting anyone at this stage.

 

[The Governor]

I think the 3 tall forward structure with Stevie J, Chapman and Varcoe in the forward line will work!!

Heh, I heard on K-Rock callers calling for Tom Hawkin's omission. Gee, he played his best game for the year. He led out in the right areas and half of the kicks were not correctly weighted to allow him to take the grab with one bite of the cherry!! He did a lot of the hard work and I think a lot of Cat fans have a high expectation level for a centre half forward. Gee, he has not reached Jonathon Brown's standard yet and he is only 21.

Some key position players take a long time to develop than others. Patience is the key cat fans!!

And, with Scarlett, Corey and Ablett to come into the side, I would drop Lonergan, Hogan and ??.

The Sydney Swans have changed their style of game from a defensive game to an attacking style of game. And, legs speed is the key to outrun the improved Sydney Swans.

IN conclusion, I think the Neil Balme and Bomber Thompson would have regretted the decision of choosing Blake ahead of the Mummy in last year's Grand Final. Shane Mumford is definitely a better ruckman than Mark Blake.

THE GOVENROR

 

[Turbocat]

Hawkins was slaughtered early on the delivery was ordinary when made good position. typical , when your out of form nothing seems to work , I just had a feeling today he was starting to turn the corner on his form. However the issue he still has to wrangle with is is conversion. Everyone can have off days , but he must improve in this area for him to really "become" the player we all want.
Inspite of his conversion he did a lot of good things , and there is no way the Bomber would drop him.

Im really starting to think the key to the 3 talls is SJ. When he is in limp mode , looking like his hip or ankle has him beat we look too heavy. When he is moving like today it will work fine , especially with two fast small to bring the pressure

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Travis Varcoe

With him in our side, we will make this thing work. Geez it is refreshing to see us not hesitate and kick to a contest up forward knowing that our talls will give a very good contest and we have the ability of Chapman, SJ and Varcoe at the drop of the ball(especially Varcoe who is able to lock the ball in better then others). Think about this against St Kilda - instead of doing what the dogs did and patiently bide time until a lead opens up, we just kick to the right areas quickly knowing that we will 80% of the time get a contest in the air and a contested ball situation on the ground.... This could be a winner!

 

[Partridge]

We'd better not try it next week against Sydney. Their run out of the back will murder us once the ball hits the deck. Huge risk IMO.

I say bring in Scarlo, Ablett and Corey for Hawkins, Hogan and....and....and....

Corey won't be in - Thompson pretty much said that after the game.

Hogan for Ablett, and as for who goes out for Scarlett, very hard to say. Maybe Lonergan, because don't forget the backline is already pretty tall, and that's without Scarlett. Wojo should stay, we're going to need all the run we can against Sydney.

Hawkins would be stiff. I thought he tried pretty hard today. You could see he was struggling somewhat but kept working. Interestingly had more of the ball than either Mooney or Pods (who were both excellent too). Just needs to start converting chances.

Good position to be in though.

 

[cynical]

We'd still beat sydney at SS with the 3 talls, its the ground size that matters.

On smallish grounds you can get away with it depending on if Steve Johnson is in old man mode or not.

When it comes to tough games on bigger grounds you need the pace.

I dont think you can play 3 talls + SJ + max in the forward line.

Hawkins is a long term prospect but with Pods being a better option and guys like duncan playing well i dont think he is our 22 (unless its in the ruck).

 

[Poetic Justice]

Bomber said in the presso today that we'd go 3 talls again against Sydney.

Thought it worked well today.

Thought Hawkins was good too. Every effort bar scoring.