Tom Liberatore vs Jack Ziebell

[ManOfClay]

Liberatore is a much better player than Priddis. Most WCE supporters don't even think Priddis is in their best 22.

Every post I make you seem desperate to contradict it to make sure it seems like I'm discrediting anything Ziebell does. You are even going back 12 months to do this - obsessed much?


If you watched our games you'd notice the ball did spend a lot of time in our defence. You try and make it seem like Liberatore sits behind the play and gets cheap touches far from "dangerous positions". Meanwhile he is 3rd in the league for contested possessions. At the same time he is in the top 20 for effective disposals.

This is why North supporters on here get a bad wrap. They are completely incapable of admitting any other team's young players are as good, or better even, than theirs.

 

[Daz]

Liberatore is a much better player than Priddis. Most WCE supporters don't even think Priddis is in their best 22.

Every post I make you seem desperate to contradict it to make sure it seems like I'm discrediting anything Ziebell does. You are even going back 12 months to do this - obsessed much?


If you watched our games you'd notice the ball did spend a lot of time in our defence. You try and make it seem like Liberatore sits behind the play and gets cheap touches far from "dangerous positions". Meanwhile he is 3rd in the league for contested possessions. At the same time he is in the top 20 for effective disposals.

This is why North supporters on here get a bad wrap. They are completely incapable of admitting any other team's young players are as good, or better even, than theirs.

West Coast selection panel > West Coast BF fans. They both do their best work in the contest and struggle to directly impact the scoreboard. Numbers are very similar. Libba is a better kick but that's all that separates them. Libba needs to add more strings to his bow if he's going to get things like AA selection which bizarrely Dogs fans felt he was entitled to.

Libba doesn't hurt teams outside the contest. This is a fact.

Don't play the North fans card or the obsessed card. You're the one who is all over BF, desperate to have people appreciate Liberatore.

 

[ManOfClay]

Libba needs to add more strings to his bow if he's going to get things like AA selection which bizarrely Dogs fans felt he was entitled to.

Libba doesn't hurt teams outside the contest. This is a fact.

Do any neutrals want to respond to this? Tragic sainter or anyone?


Daz you really need to get that chip off your folder. Clearly me saying Liberatore>Ziebell offends you to the point where you feel it neccessary to talk down Liberatore as much as possible. Look at the poll results - they are overwhelmingly in my favour.

 

[Daz]

Do any neutrals want to respond to this? Tragic sainter or anyone?


Daz you really need to get that chip off your folder. Clearly me saying Liberatore>Ziebell offends you to the point where you feel it neccessary to talk down Liberatore as much as possible. Look at the poll results - they are overwhelmingly in my favour.

Not at all. In fact you are the one who seems offended whenever someone doesn't reply with 'Libba >>>>>>>> Ziebell'. Your thoughts on Ziebell's kicking are embarrassing, likewise your ignorance when it comes to TOG/fitness.

Libba had the better season. I have never denied that. The OP asks who will be the better player. I think Ziebell has more strings to his bow and will be the better player when both are in their prime.

 

[Spitta09]

There's more to kicking than making the ball spin right.

Ziebell's kicks may look good but when almost half the time they don't hit a target THAT may be why people say he has average disposal.

He's a bit like Mitch Robinson.

Just a horrible embarrassing comparison. Robinson is one of the worst kicks in the afl ziebell would be in the top 25% or so kicks in the league if you take into account field kicking and goal kicking. His field kicking is more than passable and his goal kicking accuracy is exceptional.

 

[ManOfClay]

Just a horrible embarrassing comparison.

A bit like Liberatore and Priddis.

FWIW Robinson and Ziebell have quite similar traits. Bigger bodied mid? check. Maniacal attack on ball and man? check. Tendency to bomb and hope? check.

 

[Spitta09]

A bit like Liberatore and Priddis.

FWIW Robinson and Ziebell have quite similar traits. Bigger bodied mid? check. Maniacal attack on ball and man? check. Tendency to bomb and hope? check.

Ziebell has bombed a lot less in hope this year and has improved a lot with his decision making.
Difference is he has class Robinson has absolutely none whatsoever. It is an indictment on ziebell to mention him in the same sentence.

 

[Engimal]

After the end of the 2013 season, I'd still chose Ziebell. As his TOG% increases (as it has done, nearly every year), his stats will increase too. There's nothing to indicate he won't continue to boost his TOG% in 2014 and at such a young age, you'd be silly to think he won't.

 

[doggies ftw]

Yeah it's not like 21 year old Libba will improve his game at all... Would not be surprised at all if he added goal kicking to his game, he has shown he can do it before and is a lovely kick off both feet.

 

[ManOfClay]

Yeah it's not like 21 year old Libba will improve his game at all... Would not be surprised at all if he added goal kicking to his game, he has shown he can do it before and is a lovely kick off both feet.

His goal in the last game was pure poetry. Who needs teammates when you can win the centre clearance yourself and go for goal alone?

But his TOG is already pretty good so don't think he'll improve that much as he gets older and a bit more mature-bodied. (Sarcasm).

 

[KillaKanga]

A bit like Liberatore and Priddis.

FWIW Robinson and Ziebell have quite similar traits. Bigger bodied mid? check. Maniacal attack on ball and man? check. Tendency to bomb and hope? check.

So you agree it's a laughable comparison then get a generic checklist of traits that quite a few very good players in the AFL have to prove your point?

Libba had the better 2013.

Who will become the better player? Whoever takes the next step.

MoC as you pointed out they could both be the best in their positions as they play a different game.

 

[Daz]

His goal in the last game was pure poetry. Who needs teammates when you can win the centre clearance yourself and go for goal alone?

But his TOG is already pretty good so don't think he'll improve that much as he gets older and a bit more mature-bodied. (Sarcasm).

I'm glad you enjoyed his one goal for the year.

 

[ManOfClay]

It's getting sad just how desperate you are to make Liberatore look bad.

 

[ManOfClay]

Who will become the better player? Whoever takes the next step.

MoC as you pointed out they could both be the best in their positions as they play a different game.

Ziebell would next to take "the next step" in his position to be the equivalent of Liberatore in his.

 

[Daz]

It's getting sad just how desperate you are to make Liberatore look bad.

It's 5 extra possessions vs 1 extra goal a game. I'm not sure why you seem to think there's this massive gulf between the two players.

 

[ManOfClay]

It's 5 extra possessions vs 1 extra goal a game. I'm not sure why you seem to think there's this massive gulf between the two players.

There isn't a "massive gulf" but there certainly is a discernable gap.

Liberatore is statistically the best clearance mid in the competition. Is also one of the top handful of tacklers and has a very high efficiency rate as well. There is no harm in admitting Ziebell has a bit of catching up to do.

What you seem to be doing is attempting to downplay anything Liberatore does. I'm big enough to admit Ziebell is already a good player with a lot of potential. But it's not totally unreasonable to suggest he's not at Liberatore's level in his own position.

 

[Daz]

There isn't a "massive gulf" but there certainly is a discernable gap.

Liberatore is statistically the best clearance mid in the competition. Is also one of the top handful of tacklers and has a very high efficiency rate as well. There is no harm in admitting Ziebell has a bit of catching up to do.

What you seem to be doing is attempting to downplay anything Liberatore does. I'm big enough to admit Ziebell is already a good player with a lot of potential. But it's not totally unreasonable to suggest he's not at Liberatore's level in his own position.

Mate I've been pumping Libba up for two years. If not in here then definitely in the Cunnington thread. It's only been in the last couple of weeks when people have been talking AA that I thought hang on, he's not that good.

You're trying to paint me as some unreasonable person who can't see that Libba is ahead. There is no denying that he had the better season (not by as much as Dogs fans believe but oh well).

That said, I believe Ziebell will be the better player. Clearances have never been less important than they are today. Libba needs to start kicking goals or at least hitting up forwards with I50's. Ziebell has more balance to his game. I'd be surprised if even you disagreed with that.

 

[Engimal]

But it's not totally unreasonable to suggest he's not at Liberatore's level in his own position.

Would you be willing to admit the reverse as well?

 

[ManOfClay]

That is a more reasonable post.

However I still think Liberatore will be the better player. Because ultimately they are different types of players. It's a matter of whether you'd prefer the very good inside/outside mid or the elite inside mid.

 

[ManOfClay]

Would you be willing to admit the reverse as well?

You have misread the post.

Say Liberatore is rated an inside mid whilst ziebell is rated an inside/outside mid.

Liberatore is in the top 2-3 inside mids based on his 2013. Ziebell may be in the top 10 inside/outside mids in the league.

Until he's rated in the top 2-3 he's not at Liberatore's level in his own position.

 

[Engimal]

You have misread the post.

Say Liberatore is rated an inside mid whilst ziebell is rated an inside/outside mid.

Liberatore is in the top 2-3 inside mids based on his 2013. Ziebell may be in the top 10 inside/outside mids in the league.

Until he's rated in the top 2-3 he's not at Liberatore's level in his own position.

Oh, my mistake. I personally don't rate Liberatore as being in the top 3 best inside mids but I can certainly see why people would so I guess that's a fair statement to make.

 

[Daz]

I don't think you quite understand Ziebell's role. He plays a similar role to your Watson/Kennedy types. Spends the majority of the game in the midfield contests and rests forward a bit.

 

[Pykie]

Libber had a terrific season, will be a terrific player, is ahead atm, I still wouldn't trade Jack for him though, absolute tip of the iceberg, and is at the point of really exploding. Have absolutely no doubt he will be North's best player inside of 18 months.

Libber can still certainly improve, Jack's one of those unique big bodied midfielders though, can play equally well up forward or in the middle, and as he moves from the kid to the man in terms of experience will start really bullying players of less experience as he hits his mid 20's.

Will be a 30+ goals a year midfielder in the not too distant future.

 

[Ambrosia]

Libber had a terrific season, will be a terrific player, is ahead atm, I still wouldn't trade Jack for him though, absolute tip of the iceberg, and is at the point of really exploding. Have absolutely no doubt he will be North's best player inside of 18 months.

Libber can still certainly improve, Jack's one of those unique big bodied midfielders though, can play equally well up forward or in the middle, and as he moves from the kid to the man in terms of experience will start really bullying players of less experience as he hits his mid 20's.

Will be a 30+ goals a year midfielder in the not too distant future.

Zeibell's role would need to change considerably to regularly kick 30 goals a season. When was the last time an inside mid kicked 30 goals in a season?

 

[Dan]

Zeibell's role would need to change considerably to regularly kick 30 goals a season. When was the last time an inside mid kicked 30 goals in a season?

Dangerfield