Strategy Trade and List management (Add your rumour to the simmering stew that is the post season. Edition.)

[Bulldogs Legend]

I'm not really getting angsty. I've just seen this story before with Ward when the club absolutely butchered that negotiation. We have a green list manager in place and a lot of the guys around the league are signing new deals and we are hearing donuts about two guys who are very useful contributors to our team.

I am pretty sure that Bevo mentioned two weeks ago there was a deal on the table for Wallis so I wouldn't say we are hearing nothing, and in any negotiation it's probably better to do them in private.
As for Ward aside from the fact that it was a long time ago now the story that emerged a couple of years back was never confirmed and had some holes in it. As i recall his manager claimed he would have stayed for another $50k which sounds to me more like revisionist BS to paint his client in a better light as the Plastics were able to offer him twice as much as we could because of the salary cap concessions they had and the fact that their list in the early days was made up of 1st year players predominantly.

 

[Yojimbo]

In a heartbeat. Except my heart would have stopped if the Giants put that offer on the table.

The AFL have moved the trade period to April fools day, have they.

 

[Mofra]

As for Ward aside from the fact that it was a long time ago now the story that emerged a couple of years back was never confirmed and had some holes in it. As i recall his manager claimed he would have stayed for another $50k which sounds to me more like revisionist BS to paint his client in a better light as the Plastics were able to offer him twice as much as we could because of the salary cap concessions they had and the fact that their list in the early days was made up of 1st year players predominantly.

We definitely screwed up negotiations. Ward would have signed much earlier in the year had we put a better offer to him - it wasn't much more than half of the ~$800k GWS eventually got for him. This is direct from the family and corroborated by a player manager.

Swings and roundabouts though - we picked up Ward at the pick 19 we got for trading McMahon to Richmond. Our compo for losing Ward was pick 6 (Macrae) who went on to kick the sealing goal against GWS in the prelim in 2016. A game Ward couldn't finish playing in after an errant Zaine Cordy knee knocked him right in the temple.

Ward is a gun and I'd have him back in a heartbeat but I really do believe Macrae has overtaken him (and most mids) this year.

 

[fronkalicious]

Unless we trade it before the draft.

Package our first and a pick in the 20s and we could go after a big fish like Shiel.

Hold fire on shiel. He’s a free agent in 12 months. No need to blow picks on him now.

 

[fronkalicious]

What would you do with those acquired assets?

See what we can do at trade time. As others have mentioned, maybe we could trade an end of first for multiple 2nds or 3rds that gets us in a better points position for west and khamis.

Ideally we could land a nice small forward. Bolton is the one that springs to mind.

 

[Bonts4]

We definitely screwed up negotiations. Ward would have signed much earlier in the year had we put a better offer to him - it wasn't much more than half of the ~$800k GWS eventually got for him. This is direct from the family and corroborated by a player manager.

Swings and roundabouts though - we picked up Ward at the pick 19 we got for trading McMahon to Richmond. Our compo for losing Ward was pick 6 (Macrae) who went on to kick the sealing goal against GWS in the prelim in 2016. A game Ward couldn't finish playing in after an errant Zaine Cordy knee knocked him right in the temple.

Ward is a gun and I'd have him back in a heartbeat but I really do believe Macrae has overtaken him (and most mids) this year.

I will always love ward, even though he left us I reckon he would be as loyal as they come . He is as tough as they come and is a star , would welcome him back any day and even talking about him makes me sad

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

We definitely screwed up negotiations. Ward would have signed much earlier in the year had we put a better offer to him - it wasn't much more than half of the ~$800k GWS eventually got for him. This is direct from the family and corroborated by a player manager.

Swings and roundabouts though - we picked up Ward at the pick 19 we got for trading McMahon to Richmond. Our compo for losing Ward was pick 6 (Macrae) who went on to kick the sealing goal against GWS in the prelim in 2016. A game Ward couldn't finish playing in after an errant Zaine Cordy knee knocked him right in the temple.

Ward is a gun and I'd have him back in a heartbeat but I really do believe Macrae has overtaken him (and most mids) this year.

Fair enough but I do have my doubts on the story as its been re told being the cynic that I am I find it hard to believe someone would have accepted half of what another club was offering but perhaps he didn't know at that point how much GWS was offering. $50-100k or even $200k but $400k differential per year over 5 or so years that's a stretch.

 

[fronkalicious]

If Roughead and campbell both go, we’ll need another cheap ruckman.

Any ideas??

 

[Bonts4]

If Roughead and campbell both go, we’ll need another cheap ruckman.

Any ideas??

Lycett ?

 

[jdz101]

I am pretty sure that Bevo mentioned two weeks ago there was a deal on the table for Wallis so I wouldn't say we are hearing nothing, and in any negotiation it's probably better to do them in private.
As for Ward aside from the fact that it was a long time ago now the story that emerged a couple of years back was never confirmed and had some holes in it. As i recall his manager claimed he would have stayed for another $50k which sounds to me more like revisionist BS to paint his client in a better light as the Plastics were able to offer him twice as much as we could because of the salary cap concessions they had and the fact that their list in the early days was made up of 1st year players predominantly.

Rocket basically confirmed that we cocked up that negotiation on his twitter not long back

 

[Clarkythelion]

Apparently the media are on board with it. I don’t get it either. They finished 11th last year (vs us 10th on%) and 9th on % the year before. I’ve said it before but that is not deserving of a priority pick and no club should be given a priority pick. These 3 clubs have all had an abundance of high draft picks and stuffed up their list management through their own undoing. So what is the AFLs solution? Give them more draft picks! The AFL has to stop compromising the draft! Seriously with 3 priority picks, plus free agency compo, it could screw us in terms of draft points needed for father sons/academy this year. So not only do these free hand outs reward pathetic management of clubs, it also punishes those clubs doing the right thing. There are some serious inept individuals running this league. They’re so lucky there is no serious competition or the sport would be dead in the water

As a Lions supporter I agree, no priority picks rewarding bad management. We have been really crap for a long time and yes we got a pick but only after we were raided with the "go Home" factor. Carlton, St Kilda and the Suns have been their own worst enemies and have done badly at drafting and trading and so had the Lions until we fixed the off field management first which them started out kids developing again where they had stagnated and just did time until they left. If we loose to the suns this week we will finish behind St Kilda and if they get a priority pick,by definition we will get one and we don't need or want one. These compromised drafts are a pain in the ass but what it does do, a we are proof, is that is makes you focus internally on development and care of players rather than trying to 'buy' a winning team.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

If Roughead and campbell both go, we’ll need another cheap ruckman.

Any ideas??

Preuss maybe

 

[Mofra]

Fair enough but I do have my doubts on the story as its been re told being the cynic that I am I find it hard to believe someone would have accepted half of what another club was offering but perhaps he didn't know at that point how much GWS was offering. $50-100k or even $200k but $400k differential per year over 5 or so years that's a stretch.

Our initial offers were made well before GWS were even talking to him. We let it slide and as the season wore on GWS started the conversation.

 

[The Original Swooper]

I’m wondering why so many folks are keen to move on Dal and Wally. Then the penny dropped.

Trade/delist type talk normally is the domain of the older players and the list cloggers. But neither of those types generally attract much trade currency.

AGE:

With Moz (welcome to stay as long as he wants), Picko (only he will know if he can play on), Dickson (30+ going to a 3rd club won’t work), Wood (Premiership Captain) and Suckers (teachers pet) being our only 30+ for 2019, so there isnt much to discuss in terms of wanting them gone and/or having any value.

Roughy is the next in line at 28/29, and appearing to be partially cooked, can understand the desire by many to move him on, despite him being a lifelong Bulldog. No value most said. Then suitors appear. This IS worth talking about !

Big Red is a loved team member and if happy to predominantly play VFL, most happy to keep. Why trade out a half decent depth KPF ? Biggsy is next. Hmmmm. 2016 was his zenith. Moderate trade value maybe. Worth discussing.

CLOGGERS.

Keep in mind, I’m an advocate to he “not every player can be best 22” camp. But to me, these guys are our whipping boys.

Jong. May have moderate trade value (like him or not he is serviceable depth)
Roberts as above (has proven to provide adequate cover when needed but we now have depth with talls).
Honey. May have small trade value.

So targets that would generally be the focus, are either wanted by us, or would attract little to no trade value. Not very exciting I guess. But the masses need a shiny new toy to wax lyrical about before 2019 rolls in. How do we get one ? We sacrifice 2 very competent players approaching footballing peak age just so we can get a new toy. It doesn’t have to be sensible, logical or practical or achievable, it just needs to provide chat fodder.

WeLl, sorry to pull the rug out folks, but neither Dal nor Wally want to rush out the door. Common sense will prevail, and both re-sign. But I do hear Bontempelli wants out........

 

[Mofra]

Preuss maybe

He's not cheap, but North are stuck with the Goldy contract.

TBH I really think we only need a 1-2 year ruck, English will be a gun and will play more games next year before pushing to be a week in - week out proposition in another 18 months. I've suggested Zac Clarke as a cheap WAFL pick up but it might just be a Boyd/Trengove/English rotation next year anyway.

 

[Yojimbo]

If Roughead and campbell both go, we’ll need another cheap ruckman.

Any ideas??

Semi Pro- Zac Clarke

 

[Mofra]

Big Red is a loved team member and if happy to predominantly play VFL, most happy to keep. Why trade out a half decent depth KPF ? Biggsy is next. Hmmmm. 2016 was his zenith. Moderate trade value maybe. Worth discussing.

CLOGGERS.

Keep in mind, I’m an advocate to he “not every player can be best 22” camp. But to me, these guys are our whipping boys.

Jong. May have moderate trade value (like him or not he is serviceable depth)
Roberts as above (has proven to provide adequate cover when needed but we now have depth with talls).
Honey. May have small trade value.

Agree with some of that but:
- Red is cooked. Poor guy is contracted but can't get on the paddock and Schache is the future. I think he's done, contract or not.
- Jong, if kept, would be about 35th on the list and as much as he played well 'for Jong' his decision making (or lack thereof) stood out in the first half against more natural footballers. I'd shop him and take whatever we could get, preferably somewhere where he gets decent coin and opportunity.
- Roberts is contracted and I'd keep as a break in case of glass type. If we need Trengove in the ruck he might be useful injury cover.
- HC. I really wish him well but his hot-potato approach to possession kills us. Keep Dahl, HC goes to anywhere he'll get more opportunity.

I love Roughy but he's done, if WCE offer him two years he should take it and run. I expect St Kilda will pull their offer when (most likely) Lycett goes there for huge dollars as a no 1 ruck.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Preuss maybe

Cost would be too high

 

[dogwatch]

If Roughead and campbell both go, we’ll need another cheap ruckman.

Any ideas??

Yojimbo's been talking up Zac Clarke in the WAFL. Supposedly over his injuries and killing it at that level (I only have Yojimbo's word though).

If we used a late (no-points) draft pick it wouldn't cost us anything. It would probably only be for 2-3 years but that can be a long time in footy. Other options could become available by 2021.

EDIT: Just checked and he's been averaging about 40 HOs a game for Subiaco.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

He's not cheap, but North are stuck with the Goldy contract.

TBH I really think we only need a 1-2 year ruck, English will be a gun and will play more games next year before pushing to be a week in - week out proposition in another 18 months. I've suggested Zac Clarke as a cheap WAFL pick up but it might just be a Boyd/Trengove/English/Dunkley rotation next year anyway.

FTFY

 

[ThirdLegUp]

Common sense will prevail, and both re-sign. But I do hear Bontempelli wants out........

That's a Day Off if I've ever seen!!!! REPORTED!

 

[GetDimmaBack]

If Roughead and campbell both go, we’ll need another cheap ruckman.

Any ideas??

Don't know much about Zac Smith, but I thought he was doing okay at Gold Coast before he went to Geelong.

Any chance?

 

[Tommycash]

To me it seems a little odd for a club who historically needs ruckmen to trade one out and then need to bring one in. Surely Roughie, a fairly proven commodity who is currently getting games and playing pretty well as a fill in is perfect given we all expect English to be the number one in 2 years time if not next year. But we will see what happens.

 

[The Original Swooper]

Agree with some of that but:
- Red is cooked. Poor guy is contracted but can't get on the paddock and Schache is the future. I think he's done, contract or not.
- Jong, if kept, would be about 35th on the list and as much as he played well 'for Jong' his decision making (or lack thereof) stood out in the first half against more natural footballers. I'd shop him and take whatever we could get, preferably somewhere where he gets decent coin and opportunity.
- Roberts is contracted and I'd keep as a break in case of glass type. If we need Trengove in the ruck he might be useful injury cover.
- HC. I really wish him well but his hot-potato approach to possession kills us. Keep Dahl, HC goes to anywhere he'll get more opportunity.

I love Roughy but he's done, if WCE offer him two years he should take it and run. I expect St Kilda will pull their offer when (most likely) Lycett goes there for huge dollars as a no 1 ruck.

I agree with all the above. The point was, nothing in that lot is going to supply currency to even get close to an exciting new toy to make a play for. With draft spots needed for West et al, I can’t see how we can “ be involved” with much more than fringe types. If we can somehow get more than we expect, I’ll dip me lid to Mr Power.

 

[Mofra]

I agree with all the above. The point was, nothing in that lot is going to supply currency to even get close to an exciting new toy to make a play for. With draft spots needed for West et al, I can’t see how we can “ be involved” with much more than fringe types. If we can somehow get more than we expect, I’ll dip me lid to Mr Power.

Unpopular option - we tend to draft better than we trade so with the exception of some cheap pick ups I think we're better off going to the draft with our first pick and then take West. We have the talent, some of it just needs more time.

A review and overhaul of our medical team would do far more to help our fortunes next year than any single player who is gettable by us.