Strategy Trade and List management Thread (cont in Part 2)

[Mattdougie]

Now I am not usually the most positive Bulldogs supporter but I really think we have a lot to look forward to next year no matter what happens this trade period. Bottom 4 next year you reckon? Only if we end end with 12 ACL’s and another broken neck (possible).

If our list continues to improve on the last 4 rounds we will play finals at a minimum. We have strong, improving youth on every line. Can we cover Wal and Dahl leaving? Absolutely.

I said 2 months ago that if we make no coaching changes I believe we will be bottom four next year. I made the statement so will stand by it mate.

I don’t rate the list as highly as some do. We have missed finals the last two years by a fair way so there has to be something amiss somewhere.

Can we cover Wally and Dahl leaving? Not if it’s with blokes like Honey and Jong.

 

[Mattdougie]

Good point.

All this talk about landing a big fish after 2016 is so naive.

It takes months to negotiate contracts as we see every year, with Dusty, Scully etc.

Players, managers etc are not going to change their career path, contact negotiations and choice of club all of a sudden and go to the Bulldogs because they won the premiership.

In fact players still under contract with other clubs are less likely to be traded to the club that has just won the flag.

Can someone please name a player since the end of 16 that we could have or should have acquired that would have seen us in contention in 17 and 18 ?

I think the drafting since the 16 premiership has been great.

Nankervis
Saad
I can continue

Others teams seem to be able to recruit these are just excuses sorry.

We don’t get players like that so fans say blah blah we don’t want them, we don’t need them yet we keep spuds on the list for 5-6 years.

The flag was or golden ticket to at least try and we didn’t

 

[dergert]

I'd call for power's head if the above trade went through. Absolutely shocking

 

[Mattdougie]

We were chasing Schache for a while. Everybody said it was an act of desperation and stupidity to do it- so you have to give some credit there.

And they also got Gowers over a lot of objections and made the right call with Crameri. So yes, it wasn't perfect but the list team did pretty well IMO.

The same list team that kept Campbell who clearly was never going to get a game? Honey and Jong who haven’t improved in 3 years.

Bev got Gowers that had zero to do with the list team mate.

Yeah haven’t been horrible but we haven’t been good and when we start to accept that then people may start to understand why we have fallen away

 

[Bulldogs_6]

The same list team that kept Campbell who clearly was never going to get a game? Honey and Jong who haven’t improved in 3 years.

Bev got Gowers that had zero to do with the list team mate.

Yeah haven’t been horrible but we haven’t been good and when we start to accept that then people may start to understand why we have fallen away

Largely in agreement with you here mate, but we weren't too far away from finals last year, even if performance level was a huge disappointment, and the year would have been classified as a failure had we managed to sneak in the finals and lose week 1.

Something has to be said about our injury record the last 2 years, though (and premiership year I might add). Up there with the worst in the comp.

Not a lot gone our way, sadly.

 

[scooter600x]

What happened to our pick 19?!

We could always trade it

 

[Bonts4]

I reckon we are looking at trading our pick 6 for an established gun . Makes sense just a matter of who ?

 

[bobby2]

What about Roberts? Dont your ridiculous hypotheticals always involve us trading him out?

M.C. Crae traded out Roberts last year. We can't trade him out this year if he's already at a different club.

 

[Philthy1]

What the chopping heads off bit? or the actual list changes?

Clarkson was punching walls and bullying umpires at his kids games around this time so who knows what he was doing with his players.

But yeah, what I wrote was mostly true on the significant changes part.

At the end of the 2010 season they chopped 13
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Hawthorn_Football_Club_season

2011 they actually only got rid of 8, but brought in 10 players to the club (I got that one partly wrong)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Hawthorn_Football_Club_season

In 2012 they got rid of 9
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Hawthorn_Football_Club_season

So they got rid of 30 in 3 seasons basically.

We've been fairly conservative in our list management over the past two seasons and I don't think it's got us anywhere. We need to have a big cull, 8-9 changes is not going to cut it this year. I want a massacre.

Bevo did say after the 2016 season that they wanted the keep the group together. The fact that it hasn’t worked out that well doesn’t mean it wasn’t the right call at the time.


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[footyfan000001]

I wonder if the Neale for pick 4 rumours might be Freo looking to pair up the King brothers ?

 

[Mattdougie]

Largely in agreement with you here mate, but we weren't too far away from finals last year, even if performance level was a huge disappointment, and the year would have been classified as a failure had we managed to sneak in the finals and lose week 1.

Something has to be said about our injury record the last 2 years, though (and premiership year I might add). Up there with the worst in the comp.

Not a lot gone our way, sadly.

True but let’s surmise for a second Dahl and Wally go this year.

From 2016 premiership squad we have lost Murphy Boyd Hamling Stinger Rough Dah Wallis Biggs Redpath and possibly Picken(who I don’t think will play again)

I’m not including kids coz everyone gets kids in but we have gained Trengove Crozier, Schache and Gowers(rookie but I’m being generous) and assuming we don’t get anyone this year but if we do they can be added to this list.

Injuries ir not that simply isn’t good enough and no one no matter how biased they are can spin that is

 

[Mattdougie]

I reckon we are looking at trading our pick 6 for an established gun . Makes sense just a matter of who ?

Liam Jones?

 

[Bonts4]

Liam Jones?

Is that you Liam ?

 

[Northernsoul74]

I wonder if the Neale for pick 4 rumours might be Freo looking to pair up the King brothers ?

If they don’t want to go the GC I doubt Freo is that appealing.

 

[Mofra]

I wonder if the Neale for pick 4 rumours might be Freo looking to pair up the King brothers ?

Some Saints fans suggest they're all over Max King.
He's doing rehab there two days per week as the moment so they get a really good look at him.

 

[Bonts4]

Saints need a gun mid more than talls

 

[TedDougChris]

M.C. Crae traded out Roberts last year. We can't trade him out this year if he's already at a different club.

Pfft. That’s just facts.... Do you honestly think they were considered in any way ???

 

[Bulldogs_6]

True but let’s surmise for a second Dahl and Wally go this year.

From 2016 premiership squad we have lost Murphy Boyd Hamling Stinger Rough Dah Wallis Biggs Redpath and possibly Picken(who I don’t think will play again)

I’m not including kids coz everyone gets kids in but we have gained Trengove Crozier, Schache and Gowers(rookie but I’m being generous) and assuming we don’t get anyone this year but if we do they can be added to this list.

Injuries ir not that simply isn’t good enough and no one no matter how biased they are can spin that is

Again, agree, and I acknowledge list management hasn't been particularly good the last few years. Really hoping we can at least hang onto Wally.

We are lucky we have had some very good drafts, and I think our potential rests on growth from our under 24's (which is an above average group compared to the rest of the comp): Bont, Dunks, McLean, Richards, Cordy, Naughton, Lipinski, Daniel, Williams, English, Schache, Boyd, Young and the like.

Getting some ready-made product around these guys should hold us in pretty good stead, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Bonts4]

If we lose Dahlhaus and Wallis , we need to bring in someone with leg speed and a great kick , any ideas ? Brad hill ?

 

[Ricky_Lake]

The Saints are like bed bugs on brothel sheets, they seem all over everyone

 

[Mattdougie]

The Saints are like bed bugs on brothel sheets, they seem all over everyone

Ive had bed bugs from a hostel in London

It’s not even funny how bad they are, I looked like I had an all over case of herpes

 

[VitalDread]

Saints need a gun mid more than talls

Watch Gaff to saints news

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

Now I am not usually the most positive Bulldogs supporter but I really think we have a lot to look forward to next year no matter what happens this trade period. Bottom 4 next year you reckon? Only if we end end with 12 ACL’s and another broken neck (possible).

If our list continues to improve on the last 4 rounds we will play finals at a minimum. We have strong, improving youth on every line. Can we cover Wal and Dahl leaving? Absolutely.

I am with you I reckon we will smash everyone next year (although I still could be suffering the effects of the Spotless cider) !

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

Lloyd rated the year 4/10 and Barrett 2/10.
Lloyd had us finsihing 9-11 next year, and barrett 12-14.

Barrett just wanting to sink the boots in was the one saying we were irrelevant.
I think Lloyds assessment was pretty accurate wasnt it ?

- We had a season ruined by instability and constant changes - CORRECT
- Its hard to know what sort of game plan (identity) we play with cause it changed alot across the year with personal - CORRECT
- We dont know our best ruck combination yet - CORRECT

People get carried away and up in arms about nothing I think.
I would have given us a 4 also and have the same assessments on our year.

Its only accurate if he rated Brisbane 2 and the Blues 1 given they both had older more experienced sides on the ground.

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

What the chopping heads off bit? or the actual list changes?

Clarkson was punching walls and bullying umpires at his kids games around this time so who knows what he was doing with his players.

But yeah, what I wrote was mostly true on the significant changes part.

At the end of the 2010 season they chopped 13
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Hawthorn_Football_Club_season

2011 they actually only got rid of 8, but brought in 10 players to the club (I got that one partly wrong)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Hawthorn_Football_Club_season

In 2012 they got rid of 9
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Hawthorn_Football_Club_season

So they got rid of 30 in 3 seasons basically.

We've been fairly conservative in our list management over the past two seasons and I don't think it's got us anywhere. We need to have a big cull, 8-9 changes is not going to cut it this year. I want a massacre.

With this sort of accurate analysis you will never be able to get a job in the media!