Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 3 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Virgin Dog]

Genuinely curious about Fergus - seems he has a lot of fans on here, but what exactly does he have to offer that makes him a more viable option than a Wallis, Dale, Weightman, Lloyd, Dickson, Gowers or even a fresh draftee? I guess I'm just not seeing it, but he hasn't exactly shown elite traits, and has played 5 games (all in 2018) despite this being his 4th year on the list. Is he supposed to be a long term Dickson replacement?

Great endurance and an accurate set shot aren't exactly enough when he's kicked one goal in each of his AFL games, and his VFL form is hardly amazing

 

[Cudi]

Genuinely curious about Fergus - seems he has a lot of fans on here, but what exactly does he have to offer that makes him a more viable option than a Wallis, Dale, Weightman, Lloyd, Dickson, Gowers or even a fresh draftee? I guess I'm just not seeing it, but he hasn't exactly shown elite traits, and has played 5 games (all in 2018) despite this being his 4th year on the list. Is he supposed to be a long term Dickson replacement?

Great endurance and an accurate set shot aren't exactly enough when he's kicked one goal in each of his AFL games, and his VFL form is hardly amazing

I rate him, he has shown glimpses at AFL level of being a very competent medium sized forward who take a grab and also good at ground level. I think he is a Dickson and Lloyd replacement who are both in their 30s. I'd much rather him given a crack than a Gowers but with the likes of Wallis and Dale playing well he will struggle to get a game soon. If lists are cut at the end of year he is someone whose in trouble which is shame because I think he can make it. Hasn't had much luck with injuries as well, last year was effectively a write off.

 

[dergert]

Screw list cuts

 

[bobs head soup]

Genuinely curious about Fergus - seems he has a lot of fans on here, but what exactly does he have to offer that makes him a more viable option than a Wallis, Dale, Weightman, Lloyd, Dickson, Gowers or even a fresh draftee? I guess I'm just not seeing it, but he hasn't exactly shown elite traits, and has played 5 games (all in 2018) despite this being his 4th year on the list. Is he supposed to be a long term Dickson replacement?

Great endurance and an accurate set shot aren't exactly enough when he's kicked one goal in each of his AFL games, and his VFL form is hardly amazing

I've been pretty proFergus since his debut. I'm not saying he's necessarily as good or better than the players you listed, but I've got no doubt he's got plenty to offer at AFL level, based on the following;

- draft testing shows his endurance capabilities are absolutely elite, better than every other player in his draft year,
- Great defensive capabilities. Stats say he laid 4-5 tackles in the bulk of his games, but quite a few more slipped because he just wasn't strong enough for the tackles to stick. With the extra preseasons under his belt, he'll be a tackling machine,
- Marking, as a skinny kid he was taking multiple forward 50 marks most matches include some contested. He has long limbs and good hands and would be a real target when he gets stronger,
- Footy smarts, xfactor, in every game he played he pulled out a couple of little tricks most players can't. He knows the places to get to.

He's got the tools. I don't know if he works hard enough off field, but I hope he gets another crack because he has the capacity to be a really good player.

 

[dogwatch]

Some famous flops. Here are the top 10 draft picks over the last 20 years who didn't make it to 10 games and the favourite game of "who the club could've picked" in that year's top 30. Anyone know the story of these players? Some were obviously plagued by injury.

• 2000 - Laurence Angwin (Adelaide #7, 4 games) ... could have had Shaun Burgoyne (#12), Daniel Kerr (#18)
• 2001 - Luke Molan (Melbourne #9, 0 games) ... Nick dal Santo (#13) Stevie Johnson (#24)
• 2002 - Tim Walsh (Western Bulldogs #4, 1 game) ... Jarrad McVeigh (#5), Andrew Mackie #7)
• 2003 - David Trotter (North Melb #9, 7 games) ...
• 2003 - Ryley Dunn (Fremantle #10, 8 games) ... Brett Stanton (#13), David Mundy (#19)
• 2004 - John Meesen (Adelaide #8, 6 games) ... Angus Monfries (#14), Matt Rosa (#29)
• 2005 - they all made it to 10 games but Beau Dowler (Haw), Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls (Rich) and Marcus Drum (Frem) didn't get much further.
• 2006 - Mitch Thorp (Hawthorn #6, 2 games) ... Joel Selwood (#7), Jack Riewoldt (#13)
• 2007 - no real flops - all of them played 50 or more games
• 2008 - no flops - all have played over 100 games
• 2009 - all made it to 10 games but Anthony Morabito (Frem) and John Butcher (Port) didn't play many games
• 2010 - all made it to 10 games but Daniel Gorringe (GCS) only played 26
• 2011 - all made it to 10 games but Liam Sumner (GWS) only played 32 games
• 2012 - all made it to 10 games but Jonathan O'Rourke (GWS) and Jimmy Toumpas (Melb) didn't cover themselves with glory
• 2013 - Nathan Freeman (Collingwood #10, 2 games) ... Patrick Cripps (#13), Zach Merrett (#26)
• 2014 - all made it to 10 games but Jarrod Pickett (GWS) and Paul Ahern (GWS) have had limited games so far
• 2015 - no flops
• 2016 - no outright flops but Jack Scrimshaw and Will Brodie (both GCS) haven't yet set the comp alight
• 2017 - no flops
• 2018 - no flops, super draft
• 2019 - too soon to tell but most look pretty good

Looks like clubs have really got their act together since about 2005. Draft combines and increased resourcing for recruiters and scouts has translated to a higher hit rate with early picks.

 

[Bulldogs85]

Some famous flops. Here are the top 10 draft picks over the last 20 years who didn't make it to 10 games and the favourite game of "who the club could've picked" in that year's top 30. Anyone know the story of these players? Some were obviously plagued by injury.

• 2000 - Laurence Angwin (Adelaide #7, 4 games) ... could have had Shaun Burgoyne (#12), Daniel Kerr (#18)
• 2001 - Luke Molan (Melbourne #9, 0 games) ... Nick dal Santo (#13) Stevie Johnson (#24)
• 2002 - Tim Walsh (Western Bulldogs #4, 1 game) ... Jarrad McVeigh (#5), Andrew Mackie #7)
• 2003 - David Trotter (North Melb #9, 7 games) ...
• 2003 - Ryley Dunn (Fremantle #10, 8 games) ... Brett Stanton (#13), David Mundy (#19)
• 2004 - John Meesen (Adelaide #8, 6 games) ... Angus Monfries (#14), Matt Rosa (#29)
• 2005 - they all made it to 10 games but Beau Dowler (Haw), Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls (Rich) and Marcus Drum (Frem) didn't get much further.
• 2006 - Mitch Thorp (Hawthorn #6, 2 games) ... Joel Selwood (#7), Jack Riewoldt (#13)
• 2007 - no real flops - all of them played 50 or more games
• 2008 - no flops - all have played over 100 games
• 2009 - all made it to 10 games but Anthony Morabito (Frem) and John Butcher (Port) didn't play many games
• 2010 - all made it to 10 games but Daniel Gorringe (GCS) only played 26
• 2011 - all made it to 10 games but Liam Sumner (GWS) only played 32 games
• 2012 - all made it to 10 games but Jonathan O'Rourke (GWS) and Jimmy Toumpas (Melb) didn't cover themselves with glory
• 2013 - Nathan Freeman (Collingwood #10, 2 games) ... Patrick Cripps (#13), Zach Merrett (#26)
• 2014 - all made it to 10 games but Jarrod Pickett (GWS) and Paul Ahern (GWS) have had limited games so far
• 2015 - no flops
• 2016 - no outright flops but Jack Scrimshaw and Will Brodie (both GCS) haven't yet set the comp alight
• 2017 - no flops
• 2018 - no flops, super draft
• 2019 - too soon to tell but most look pretty good

Looks like clubs have really got their act together since about 2005. Draft combines and increased resourcing for recruiters and scouts has translated to a higher hit rate with early picks.

I wouldn’t call Laurence Angwin or Mitch Thorp flops I more call it a waste of Talent because they had a attitude problems

 

[maddog37]

I wouldn’t call Laurence Angwin or Mitch Thorp flops I more call it a waste of Talent because they had a attitude problems

same end result.

 

[weltschmerz]

Some famous flops. Here are the top 10 draft picks over the last 20 years who didn't make it to 10 games and the favourite game of "who the club could've picked" in that year's top 30. Anyone know the story of these players? Some were obviously plagued by injury.

• 2000 - Laurence Angwin (Adelaide #7, 4 games) ... could have had Shaun Burgoyne (#12), Daniel Kerr (#18)
• 2001 - Luke Molan (Melbourne #9, 0 games) ... Nick dal Santo (#13) Stevie Johnson (#24)
• 2002 - Tim Walsh (Western Bulldogs #4, 1 game) ... Jarrad McVeigh (#5), Andrew Mackie #7)
• 2003 - David Trotter (North Melb #9, 7 games) ...
• 2003 - Ryley Dunn (Fremantle #10, 8 games) ... Brett Stanton (#13), David Mundy (#19)
• 2004 - John Meesen (Adelaide #8, 6 games) ... Angus Monfries (#14), Matt Rosa (#29)
• 2005 - they all made it to 10 games but Beau Dowler (Haw), Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls (Rich) and Marcus Drum (Frem) didn't get much further.
• 2006 - Mitch Thorp (Hawthorn #6, 2 games) ... Joel Selwood (#7), Jack Riewoldt (#13)
• 2007 - no real flops - all of them played 50 or more games
• 2008 - no flops - all have played over 100 games
• 2009 - all made it to 10 games but Anthony Morabito (Frem) and John Butcher (Port) didn't play many games
• 2010 - all made it to 10 games but Daniel Gorringe (GCS) only played 26
• 2011 - all made it to 10 games but Liam Sumner (GWS) only played 32 games
• 2012 - all made it to 10 games but Jonathan O'Rourke (GWS) and Jimmy Toumpas (Melb) didn't cover themselves with glory
• 2013 - Nathan Freeman (Collingwood #10, 2 games) ... Patrick Cripps (#13), Zach Merrett (#26)
• 2014 - all made it to 10 games but Jarrod Pickett (GWS) and Paul Ahern (GWS) have had limited games so far
• 2015 - no flops
• 2016 - no outright flops but Jack Scrimshaw and Will Brodie (both GCS) haven't yet set the comp alight
• 2017 - no flops
• 2018 - no flops, super draft
• 2019 - too soon to tell but most look pretty good

Looks like clubs have really got their act together since about 2005. Draft combines and increased resourcing for recruiters and scouts has translated to a higher hit rate with early picks.

Gorringe now "starring" on Big Brother. That's some kind of move.

 

[josh the gent]

Gorringe now "starring" on Big Brother. That's some kind of move.

Have you read his articles?!

Redirect Notice

www.google.com.au

 

[weltschmerz]

Have you read his articles?!

Redirect Notice

www.google.com.au

Yeah, it's really interesting. I think he's said in a tweet that being 200cm means teams would call him "developing" instead of a bit rubbish.

 

[dogwatch]

I wouldn’t call Laurence Angwin or Mitch Thorp flops I more call it a waste of Talent because they had a attitude problems

Is that something clubs have got better at though? Working out who has got attitude problems and steering clear of them with top 10 picks. (Thinks ... hmmm Jake Stringer ... )

 

[Mojorisin]

Is that something clubs have got better at though? Working out who has got attitude problems and steering clear of them with top 10 picks. (Thinks ... hmmm Jake Stringer ... )

Absolutely they do much more in depth background checks and have psychiatrist conduct interviews

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

I still can’t believe that GWS took ORourke and Plowman that draft. Said it at the time, they should have taken Grundy and one of Stringer or Menzel. They needed a ruck and were in the perfect position to take one of the high risk high reward guys.

 

[LittleG]

I still can’t believe that GWS took ORourke and Plowman that draft. Said it at the time, they should have taken Grundy and one of Stringer or Menzel. They needed a ruck and were in the perfect position to take one of the high risk high reward guys.

GWS recruited said that they didn’t want to wait for Grundy to develop and they wanted early returns from the picks. It’s still about the worst drafting they did... until the next year, which was worse.

 

[Testekill]

GWS recruited said that they didn’t want to wait for Grundy to develop and they wanted early returns from the picks. It’s still about the worst drafting they did... until the next year, which was worse.

It's wild that they recrutied 3 tall forwards in the top 30 and two left because they were mentally struggling and the third left because he didn't want to have to play as a ruckman.

 

[LittleG]

It's wild that they recrutied 3 tall forwards in the top 30 and two left because they were mentally struggling and the third left because he didn't want to have to play as a ruckman.

And one that left, Boyd did want to play as a ruckman....

 

[ossie_21]

GWS recruited said that they didn’t want to wait for Grundy to develop and they wanted early returns from the picks. It’s still about the worst drafting they did... until the next year, which was worse.

It’s such a shame that they were given that many free hits, it would have been tough to fail altogether

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

Would have no problem going after peter wright and playing naughton down back.

 

[Mojorisin]

Would have no problem going after peter wright and playing naughton down back.

Would be a handy forward/ruck if he gets somewhere near what I thought he was going to become early on.
Would have to be at the wright price though

 

[SirBont]

Still Think Naughton should play forward some of the marks he took down there last year would suggest he stays where he is

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Going after Wright would be a terrible piece of recruiting/list management imo. Wouldn’t be cheap in salary or picks and isn’t an area we’re overly desperate in.
Maybe two years ago pre Naughts and JUH. Now we’re better off using our kitty somewhere else.

If we were going to send Naughts back, we’d need to replace as close to like for like up fwd, which Wright definitely isn’t
We play a team defence so our net gain sending Naughts back doesn’t balance the loss of removing him from up fwd.
Fwd line loses 30-40%, backline gains 10-20%.

 

[weltschmerz]

Still Think Naughton should play forward some of the marks he took down there last year would suggest he stays where he is

His marking’s a great trait down back too.

 

[Mojorisin]

Going after Wright would be a terrible piece of recruiting/list management imo. Wouldn’t be cheap in salary or picks and isn’t an area we’re overly desperate in.
Maybe two years ago pre Naughts and JUH. Now we’re better off using our kitty somewhere else.

If we were going to send Naughts back, we’d need to replace as close to like for like up fwd, which Wright definitely isn’t
We play a team defence so our net gain sending Naughts back doesn’t balance the loss of removing him from up fwd.
Fwd line loses 30-40%, backline gains 10-20%.

I think Bruce made the difference up forward. I thought wright was set to become a genuine star in the early days but he hasn't come on at all. 2 years ago I really wanted us to go after him.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I think Bruce made the difference up forward. I thought wright was set to become a genuine star in the early days but he hasn't come on at all. 2 years ago I really wanted us to go after him.

I was pretty keen a while back too but our needs have changed and he has dropped off a bit.

 

[Munnez]

I think Bruce made the difference up forward. I thought wright was set to become a genuine star in the early days but he hasn't come on at all. 2 years ago I really wanted us to go after him.

Wright's mobility isn't good enough and doesn't clunk enough marks to make up for it. One B King has gone straight past him in the pecking order.