List Mgmt. Trade/Draft/Targets rumours 2019

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Adam cerra and Will Brodie are who we should be targeting. I’d be looking at Emerson Jeka with our 2nd pick. 200cm forward who’s been injured most of the year. 2 years ago was touted as number 1 pick

Brodie re signed for 2yrs last week

 

[Stitch]

Bad Couch and Tim Lunch are getting paid in leftover crumbs from Balmey’s secret monte carlo collection just to run onto the G alongside their childhood hero Sydney Stack.

 

[Tiger71]

Ellis is on no more than 500K this year, and will be offered 400K to stay, Brad Crouch would be at least 750-800K on the open market. I do think we have money there but doubt we have this much to splash around. Crouch brothers stats both north over 30+ disposals you have to start to ask yourself what do they do with the ball Crows should not be struggling as much as they are with that ball winning ability.

We wont be paying 700k, period. Now in how you have explained it, that rules us out. My strong belief is that it doesn't. We would not have applied the work we have in this, if we had no idea what he may be expecting and what we can offer. Bottom line, a lot of people have assumed we are stretched cap wise, how else could we get Lynch on 1000 million a year and pay Dusty 1.25 million a year and ditto Prestia on 90000 million ( thats s**t rival supporters think lol).........my point being, we are not paying what most think. Are we paying well, you bet we are but we also have restructured our contracts with knowing how the cap works in relation to increases after the new media deal.

If he comes and there is STILL water to go under the bridge, we have more then enough coin to reward those we need too, and pay a quality midfielder a good wage. People miss the fact, all the money does not need to be paid, straight away, length of contracts etc have value.

Anyway, lets see how this plays out.

 

[Tiger71]

Bad Couch and Tim Lunch are getting paid in leftover crumbs from Balmey’s secret monte carlo collection just to run onto the G alongside their childhood hero Sydney Stack.

Now Stitch gets it!

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Hasn’t anyone considered the possibility of Adelaide paying for part of his salary too? If they go to the draft heavily they will struggle to get to the minimum TPP...

 

[Roksman]

Gotta love the comments such as "Don't want to bring in X player as we will lose our young players due to no cap space".

Do you really think our list management team is that negligent? I mean, these are highly paid professionals who have advanced data metrics / algorithms beyond our comprehension to plan for this stuff.

Enjoy the ride lads, they don't last forever.

 

[mad_tiggy911]

Crouch is s**t.

 

[Dr Tigris]

You obviously might not know how fluid our cap is, the fact we restructured contracts last year not just to fit in lynch in as well as getting the cap increases this off season and next. Also, you need to factor in those that leave. IMO I really think Ellis is gone as the blue coin is to good to pass up, hell, saints have him as a plan B option as well lol. With his wage out, plus what we already have set, add the increase, also sponsorship " work "Brad wont be short changed.

Anyway, its not a lock but like I have always said, i tell you blokes names that I know are more then just smoke and mirrors.

To me we have space to play. But not enough $ to match Saints etc if they are serious. But the key thing is what does Crouch want. he's been to the GF and got smashed. Adelaide are falling apart - no future there. If he wants a premiership medal, and acknowledges that he's going to get well paid, but won't be able to afford that extra Ferrari with us, then the Tigers are a logical choice.

For us he offers a missing piece to our team. He's a mature proven inside mid, that will stop our weakness in that area, and free up Cotch. He's a moneyball player for us. And what we offer him is success instead of crazy money.

Makes perfect sense what you are hearing.

The other thing for me is how many players are wanting out of the Crows. It sounds like their squad is imploding . So their situation is far more fluid than a normal club, where losing a Crouch like player would be huge. They are dealing with a major exodus, and perhaps trading in quality as well.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Exactly.

I really cant understand why more people dont get this concept.

In some cases it's not all about the highest bidder.

If a player wants to go to a club in the window they know they are probably going to have to take slightly less.

We do not get full disclosure on any negotiations. So who knows if there is any precedent to a guy having a market value in one strata and accepting a deal not just within say 10-15% below his optimal price but more like 30-40% below which is what some on here are suggesting he should be prepared to take to play for us. But it is hard to imagine this taking place often in a fair market. And if the club was cheating the market to gain an unfair advantage in luring opposition players, I for one would lose all interest in supporting that.

So I can understand your point in saying it is not all about the highest bidder if we are talking the difference of say $3-400k gross over a 5 year contract. But if you are talking over a million bucks difference over the course of a contract, that ceases to make so much sense to me. If Crouch's highest bidder is $800k and we are $700k or more on a long term deal, I would be seriously asking why we are committing so much to a player with quite a few limitations in his game, who seems to over perform in getting the ball and underperform in impacting with it.

Not sure I buy the view that says we will use him better etc. Adelaide for all the fun we make of them are not complete idiots, and they have struggled to fire when it has mattered most with the Crouch brothers getting lots of rock.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

We do not get full disclosure on any negotiations. So who knows if there is any precedent to a guy having a market value in one strata and accepting a deal not just within say 10-15% below his optimal price but more like 30-40% below which is what some on here are suggesting he should be prepared to take to play for us. But it is hard to imagine this taking place often in a fair market. And if the club was cheating the market to gain an unfair advantage in luring opposition players, I for one would lose all interest in supporting that.

So I can understand your point in saying it is not all about the highest bidder if we are talking the difference of say $3-400k gross over a 5 year contract. But if you are talking over a million bucks difference over the course of a contract, that ceases to make so much sense to me. If Crouch's highest bidder is $800k and we are $700k or more on a long term deal, I would be seriously asking why we are committing so much to a player with quite a few limitations in his game, who seems to over perform in getting the ball and underperform in impacting with it.

Not sure I buy the view that says we will use him better etc. Adelaide for all the fun we make of them are not complete idiots, and they have struggled to fire when it has mattered most with the Crouch brothers getting lots of rock.

It’s all about system. Adelaide’s system is very different to ours. If a player like Crouch can be made to play our way in our team he immediately becomes a lot more potent when he has the ball. This is why we are so good at the moment. The system we play is good and the the players have confidence in the system which then allows them to play with confidence. The players at Adelaide have lost faith in their system and look confused when they are being beaten so frequently. Under those conditions, players find it hard to impact games even if they get the ball 30 times.

 

[Calcium Man]

Pies midfield absolutely torched the Crows last week, I'm not blaming the Crows forwards too much for that game..

One game and Crows won the clearances

The club is imploding, just look at their bigfooty board. Players want out left, right and centre. Riccuto is running a boys club, hence why Burton still has a job as head of performance, plenty of resentment in the playing group.

Off field issues always cause on field problems.

Also team performance doesn’t reflect players ability, just look at GC falling apart but Prestia and Lynch are guns for us.

Well than.. I'm all for us going & getting him cheap but think we be will disappointed with the outcome. money talks this is why many are expecting Brandon Ellis to leave even though he has great friends at club has been paid well most of his career & has a premiership with us.

The key being Brando has a premiership, might (fingers crossed) have two at the end of the season. Lot easier to take the money when you’ve achieved the ultimate.

Everyone’s different, we will make our contract offer and sell our club, playing next to Dusty, Prestia, Cotchin, getting the ball out to Shed, Lambert, Rioli, Houli etc... and kicking it down to Lynch and Jack for a shot at a flag. Plus the “off field” benefits of playing for a big Melbourne club.

Brad will decide if that’s what he wants out of career or he wants to cash in on the Saints desperation.

We do not get full disclosure on any negotiations. So who knows if there is any precedent to a guy having a market value in one strata and accepting a deal not just within say 10-15% below his optimal price but more like 30-40% below which is what some on here are suggesting he should be prepared to take to play for us. But it is hard to imagine this taking place often in a fair market. And if the club was cheating the market to gain an unfair advantage in luring opposition players, I for one would lose all interest in supporting that.

Dusty and Kelly both left millions on the table with the offers they got from Norf.

Coniglio sounds like it being down to hawks and GWS despite blues offering by far the most money.

Lynch chose use despite being able to get a couple hundred grand a year more at GC and bigger offers from Pies and Hawks.

Dangerfield took about 200k less from Geelong than the Dees offered.

Every single person has a different set of values and money might not be as important to some as lifestyle, environment and success. Especially when you are still getting a very good wage.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

It’s all about system. Adelaide’s system is very different to ours. If a player like Crouch can be made to play our way in our team he immediately becomes a lot more potent when he has the ball. This is why we are so good at the moment. The system we play is good and the the players have confidence in the system which then allows them to play with confidence. The players at Adelaide have lost faith in their system and look confused when they are being beaten so frequently. Under those conditions, players find it hard to impact games even if they get the ball 30 times.

Ok, so let's look at your points here. Crows system different to ours, yes I can see this.

The next main point you make is Crows players have lost faith in their system and under those conditions players find it tough to impact. Also can see this point. But it doesn't explain why a player like Crouch would impact more for us than he did for the Crows when their players did believe in their system.

I suppose we all understand football differently. But let's say I am a footballer of sufficient ability that in an AFl match I get the ball and am free to make an unpressured disposal from around the middle of the ground. I will normally have certain choices. Some riskier choices like put it in space with a teammate running towards the ball and traffic and towards our goal. Some line breaking choices like tuck it under my arm and take on a tackler and risk getting nailed for the chance of opening the opposition defence up. I can go for a good old fashioned pass to a hard lead inside 50. Plenty of other choices. Or I can chip the ball 20 metres to a player running away from our goal who then basically has the same choice I had, 20 metres closer to goal but with the opposition defence having had an extra 5-10 seconds to set up behind the ball.

To me both Crouch brothers choose the last one too often and it is not simply down to team system. Because it is not just the option you take, it is the precise angle and speed of delivery etc that can influence the effectiveness of the next disposal. Some players can put teammates to maximal advantage with even the simplest chip passes and some just cannot. For me Crouch sits in the latter category. I think it is an intricate but important thing to understand about footballers when discussing their merits.

 

[GoTigers2015]

Brad Couch doesn't look like a Richmond Man.

With photo editing he does.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Ok, so let's look at your points here. Crows system different to ours, yes I can see this.

The next main point you make is Crows players have lost faith in their system and under those conditions players find it tough to impact. Also can see this point. But it doesn't explain why a player like Crouch would impact more for us than he did for the Crows when their players did believe in their system.

I suppose we all understand football differently. But let's say I am a footballer of sufficient ability that in an AFl match I get the ball and am free to make an unpressured disposal from around the middle of the ground. I will normally have certain choices. Some riskier choices like put it in space with a teammate running towards the ball and traffic and towards our goal. Some line breaking choices like tuck it under my arm and take on a tackler and risk getting nailed for the chance of opening the opposition defence up. I can go for a good old fashioned pass to a hard lead inside 50. Plenty of other choices. Or I can chip the ball 20 metres to a player running away from our goal who then basically has the same choice I had, 20 metres closer to goal but with the opposition defence having had an extra 5-10 seconds to set up behind the ball.

To me both Crouch brothers choose the last one too often and it is not simply down to team system. Because it is not just the option you take, it is the precise angle and speed of delivery etc that can influence the effectiveness of the next disposal. Some players can put teammates to maximal advantage with even the simplest chip passes and some just cannot. For me Crouch sits in the latter category. I think it is an intricate but important thing to understand about footballers when discussing their merits.

He may do that now, but learning to play a different system is exactly that - he will be told not to do that and kick it immediately down deep to a marking target. Good players learn quickly and that is what coachability is all about.

 

[_RT_]

Rather a young KPD or a more rounded mid than Crouch. If we’re spending 700k go get B.Hill and watch him light it up for us.

How do you fit all of Graham, Ross, Cotch, Crouch in the same side lol. Doesn’t make sense.

Cotchin is closer to the end of his career but could still play on a HF/HB flank for a couple of seasons to ease the impact on him. Crouch Ross Graham and RCD would give us a strong inside midfield foundation for the next 5-7 years, meaning we could also use Dusty more forward as well which extends his career.

 

[Mr Magic]

To me we have space to play. But not enough $ to match Saints etc if they are serious. But the key thing is what does Crouch want. he's been to the GF and got smashed. Adelaide are falling apart - no future there. If he wants a premiership medal, and acknowledges that he's going to get well paid, but won't be able to afford that extra Ferrari with us, then the Tigers are a logical choice.

For us he offers a missing piece to our team. He's a mature proven inside mid, that will stop our weakness in that area, and free up Cotch. He's a moneyball player for us. And what we offer him is success instead of crazy money.

Makes perfect sense what you are hearing.

The other thing for me is how many players are wanting out of the Crows. It sounds like their squad is imploding . So their situation is far more fluid than a normal club, where losing a Crouch like player would be huge. They are dealing with a major exodus, and perhaps trading in quality as well.

For me Crouch is not moneybag enough for me. I guess it might come down to where Cotch really is at and what he is looking at in terms of how far he is going. I look at Crouch and I am thinking too much money and picks for a player like that people talk about lack of hurt factor, vanilla, limited. I just do not see the need for us to jump at Crouch at all to be honest!! I feel we are like Adelaide jumping at Gibbs from Carlton where really we need to take the hand off the trigger finger and cool the jets. A lot of the value creation happens organically and we should be backing our development team in. I would rather we got someone like Bonar from GWS or Sier, for a mid second or third draft pick, where their opportunity has been stunted in iffy set-ups where we could extract real value and still have a crack in the draft. I would even have a look at Greenwood rather than Crouch on the cheap and I believe Hawthorn have shown interest to. I prefer versatile players to to increase the likelihood of fitting into our rotational systems without upsetting the applecart!! I have a lot of faith in the maturity of Ross to stand up in the contest and many talk about our system, we also have others like Graham and RCD developing. Next year is really about next year finals which is a year away to and a lot can happen in that time in the progression of the players we guide!! We have a lot of pieces growing together at Tigerland and I do think getting Crouch with a lack of versatility could hinder our progression and set-up effectiveness even on game day match-up scenarios. It is important our players have a few strings in their bow and I am not sure Crouch offers that!! Some on bigfooty(off the Tigers board) compare Crouch to Treloar and throw 900K about him its just far too much for what he brings to the table for me and it seems like Adelaide are the ones chasing Grundy and the Gold coast youngsters and are hot to trot but it does not mean we should go over the deep end to!!

 

[fargothegreat]

With photo editing he does.
View attachment 732085

Very nice attention to detail with the AFL logo

 

[Dr Tigris]

For me Crouch is not moneybag enough for me. I guess it might come down to where Cotch really is at and what he is looking at in terms of how far he is going. I look at Couch and I am thinking too much money and picks for a player like that. I would rather we got someone like Bonar from GWS or Sier and still had a crack in the draft. I have a lot of faith in the maturity of Ross to stand up in the contest and many talk about our system. Some on bigfooty compare him to Treloar and throw 900K about him its just far too much for what he brings to the table for me and it seems like Adelaide are the ones chasing Grundy and the Gold coast youngsters

I guess I see systems and roles more than players. What Crouch does is almost purely inside ball. This is our only real area of weakness. When we get beaten we lose that contested ball and control over distribution of the contested ball. Crouch will end that weakness. In doing that he'll free up Cotch to play a bit more outside. That will both increase Cotch's influence and his career. Crouch fills a role. That is what I care about. And he'll do it (barring injuries) for about 5 years. By then we'll have Graham, Ross and RCD at a minimum at full maturity. So he'll increase our chances of a premiership over the next 2-3 years, and extend our window until the young crop comes into their full strength.

Roles and systems. Individuals fit into those. Obviously we adjust our systems for who we have, but we are filling a role that we underperform in our system. If we actually get Crouch.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Even if they have told him to explore his options, how does that equate to giving up leverage? The only reason they would tell him that is if they believe they can achieve good value for him now, given there will be multiple suitors.

You’re essentially saying the difference in value between either of Menadue or Markov and B Crouch is the same as the difference between pick 19ish and pick 35ish. That’s completely bats**t RT. Adelaide would laugh us out of the room.

Even if they have told him to explore his options, how does that equate to giving up leverage? The only reason they would tell him that is if they believe they can achieve good value for him now, given there will be multiple suitors.

You’re essentially saying the difference in value between either of Menadue or Markov and B Crouch is the same as the difference between pick 19ish and pick 35ish. That’s completely bats**t RT. Adelaide would laugh us out of the room.

Do the Deal this year Crows cos of the pressure from next year...Don't forget he can leave next year as a RFA....

 

[Mr Magic]

I guess I see systems and roles more than players. What Crouch does is almost purely inside ball. This is our only real area of weakness. When we get beaten we lose that contested ball and control over distribution of the contested ball. Crouch will end that weakness. In doing that he'll free up Cotch to play a bit more outside. That will both increase Cotch's influence and his career. Crouch fills a role. That is what I care about. And he'll do it (barring injuries) for about 5 years. By then we'll have Graham, Ross and RCD at a minimum at full maturity. So he'll increase our chances of a premiership over the next 2-3 years, and extend our window until the young crop comes into their full strength.

Roles and systems. Individuals fit into those. Obviously we adjust our systems for who we have, but we are filling a role that we underperform in our system. If we actually get Crouch.

I get the role opportunity benefit/requirement , freeing up Cotchin etc.. , not denying that but their are other player options. For example for the role you are talking about freeing up Cotchin we also could bring in Bonar from GWS to provide a inside mid chop out who also could help us in other areas such as the forward line offering something different. GWS really are all over the place with their selections. Bonar could be a smokey, he could provide us with something different with extra height, leap and reach and he has the speed if he can stand up with the likes of Dusty helping him to develop!

Roles and systems are fine but they are built on humans with various talent/abilities/skillsets and desires to succeed. If you overpay on the ability and scope you can neutralise the effectiveness of the system/setup!!

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

If he was told too look at his options then $'s could still come into it.

Reckon it's all smoke and mirrors to make the Trade look good/legit!...I think it's a done deal already!

 

[Barunga Bullet]

I get the role opportunity benefit/requirement , freeing up Cotchin etc.. , not denying that but their are other player options. For example for the role you are talking about freeing up Cotchin we also could bring in Bonar from GWS to provide a inside mid chop out who also could help us in other areas such as the forward line offering something different. GWS really are all over the place with their selections. Bonar could be a smokey

The difference is, Crouch is proven, bonar isn't. Yes he would be cheaper but at least we know what we are getting with crouch. Plus it doesn't matter what we all think about crouch. Luckily it's not up to us

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Rather a young KPD or a more rounded mid than Crouch. If we’re spending 700k go get B.Hill and watch him light it up for us.

How do you fit all of Graham, Ross, Cotch, Crouch in the same side lol. Doesn’t make sense.

Got a year left in him...maybe 2...Cotch!

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

One game and Crows one the clearances Dusty and Kelly both left millions on the table with the offers they got from Norf.Coniglio sounds like it being down to hawks and GWS despite blues offering by far the most money.Lynch chose use despite being able to get a couple hundred grand a year more at GC and bigger offers from Pies and Hawks.Dangerfield took about 200k less from Geelong than the Dees offered.
Every single person has a different set of values and money might not be as important to some as lifestyle, environment and success. Especially when you are still getting a very good wage.

And Club environments and culture...'G' and huge playing audience!

 

[Mr Magic]

The difference is, Crouch is proven, bonar isn't. Yes he would be cheaper but at least we know what we are getting with crouch. Plus it doesn't matter what we all think about crouch. Luckily it's not up to us

I get that but Crouch is proven non-versatile vanilla. Bonar could be a flop but he is cheaper and he costs far less.

The Crouch play is too conservative and too expensive for us!!!

Just assume Bonar flops!!. He costs us 300-400K for two years a mid second/third. In two years we can get another FA or do a trade then when we know where Cotch is at. The draft first rounder will be developing for two years as well whoever that is or another we traded for. What do we lose if Ross is doing his thing and others and RCD are developing??

The upside is we have a gun roaming with Dusty between forward and the guts, while Prestia, Ross, RCD, Graham and others are doing their thing!! Someone like Bonar could play on the wing, he could rotate with Ross into the guts. He opens up our window at the Graham/CCJ/Balta vintage extra and gives us a host of options if we can get him to reach his potential where the Giants have been lacking. There is cause why it may have not suited him at the Giants, a lot of there youngsters have not had a lot of opportunity of late and they are going through a bit of turmoil themselves and looking to reshape their list. A lot of their players have been moved into a host of different roles on the playing field with little continuity affecting the Giants mojo. The Giants are at the crossroads as far as list formation and they need to identify themselves and simply put, I am not sure Bonar offers something that different from what they have when they Have a heap of gun mids and inside mids to like Hopper, Taranto, Greene, Williams and then there are others like Ward, Kelly, Caldwell, Hately etc,,,

When we have guys like Graham and Ross doing their thing we have no need to reach for the certainty angle and get Crouch. We have auxiliary mechanisms already in place that allows us to chase more upside!!