Trade Talk (not draft talk)

[Hollow Knight]

Lionshining begins at 15 seconds in.

[YOUTUBE]A_5GJCW_Jjo[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Stocka]

You've gotta love Panthera's posts. He (or she) will rip through our list demanding mass delistings one week, and then be pumping up a bunch of virtually untried and inexperienced juniors as being the next "Fab 5" the following week, only to suggest trading away some of our other good young players the week after.

 

[pod17]

I'm interested in armitage. Trading either of Sherman or Clark is not wise IMO. We are super slow. Why get rid of a player on the list who is actually half fast. Secondly why get rid of a key position prospect when we are not blessed in this department either?

The fev trade was not well thought out. We lost a developing kpp and another young player and gained fev (not including Bartlett until he plays seniors). Let's hold back before we go offloading any other sub 23 yo with talent.

Back to armitage. Has what it takes at the top level. What, other than Sherman, would it take for the saints to send him packing to Brisbane?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Beyond being a Queenslander, I don't think Armitage is right for us. I think we have enough of his types developing in Rockliff, Redden, Harwood, Polkinghorne, Beams etc..

We need more dynamic, creative and/or pacy run-and-carry types to complete our midfield I think.

 

[pod17]

Beyond being a Queenslander, I don't think Armitage is right for us. I think we have enough of his types developing in Rockliff, Redden, Harwood, Polkinghorne, Beams etc..

We need more dynamic, creative and/or pacy run-and-carry types to complete our midfield I think.

Yeah you are right mate. I think i'm seduced by the fact the go home factor might work in our favour for once.

I also agree with your assessment of what our side needs. I know he is erratic but bennel fits the mould. He won't drop to our pick though.

To get a bit of pace I might look at atkinson. Very fast, creative and has some hurt factor about him. Disposal and decision making can be a problem but have seen a number of his vfl games and he is too good for that level. May just need some continuity in the seniors to really show his potential. Wouldn't cost the world either I wouldn't think.

 

[whatboutbob]

Beyond being a Queenslander, I don't think Armitage is right for us. I think we have enough of his types developing in Rockliff, Redden, Harwood, Polkinghorne, Beams etc..

We need more dynamic, creative and/or pacy run-and-carry types to complete our midfield I think.

What's Varcoe's contract status? If Ablett stays will they have to offload someone?

 

[Hollow Knight]

What's Varcoe's contract status? If Ablett stays will they have to offload someone?

God I'd love Varcoe. He's just burst out of the blocks this year. I wonder how he'd go without silver service from an elite midfield though.

If he was up for trade, there would be a long line.

 

[Scubaveg]

Re: Lions Drafting Discussion 2010.

Read above, my main aim was to get picks 3 & 4 in this years draft...Cox would just be the bonus to teach Leuey. Read next time before you jump in 

I've heard some crazy ass outlandish things this year, I put it down to the season having gone off the rails as badly as it has. But seriously trading Mitch Clark is by far and away the silliest thing I have heard.

 

[Balony_pony16]

Beyond being a Queenslander, I don't think Armitage is right for us. I think we have enough of his types developing in Rockliff, Redden, Harwood, Polkinghorne, Beams etc..

We need more dynamic, creative and/or pacy run-and-carry types to complete our midfield I think.

I disagree, as I think you need at least 8 solid options for midfield rotations. Polkinghorne just isn't measuring up yet in the middle, beams is untried. With power and Black headed for retirement I think a guy like armitage would bring some real class in the future. ATM the lions lack midifeld class that can also play HF & HB...we need more midfielders.

Rich is getting heavily tagged in his 2nd year...we need midfielders. And consider that we will likely lose either Rissky or brennan

 

[Hollow Knight]

I disagree, as I think you need at least 8 solid options for midfield rotations. Polkinghorne just isn't measuring up yet in the middle, beams is untried. With power and Black headed for retirement I think a guy like armitage would bring some real class in the future. ATM the lions lack midifeld class that can also play HF & HB...we need more midfielders.

Rich is getting heavily tagged in his 2nd year...we need midfielders. And consider that we will likely lose either Rissky or brennan

I'm not sure if you actually read my post before replying???

I didn't say for a second that we have enough mids. Just that we require a certain type.

 

[Balony_pony16]

Re: Lions Drafting Discussion 2010.

I've heard some crazy ass outlandish things this year, I put it down to the season having gone off the rails as badly as it has. But seriously trading Mitch Clark is by far and away the silliest thing I have heard.

I agree...clark aint going anywhere

 

[acuguy]

God I'd love Varcoe. He's just burst out of the blocks this year. I wonder how he'd go without silver service from an elite midfield though.

If he was up for trade, there would be a long line.

I would dump the arse out of Fev, if Blacky and Power want to go on that is fine but boys it is going to be at a reduced rate and then we go after a Varcoe esk footballer at the PSD.

Forget about Varcoe needing silver service brother he would provide it. I believe in the next 3 years he will become one of the absolute elite footballers of the competition. There is a bloke worth throwing 600k at , it is probably 400k more than what he gets at the Cats

 

[lionshine]

I would offer our 1st round pick and a player or 2 for Varcoe! I rate him very highly. If we offered him 600k a year that would convince him money wise, also

1st Round plus Clarkk would get the deal done for geelong for sure. However you guys don't seem to think we would do that deal.

Look guys, I love Clark and think he will become oone of the best Rickman in the comp. However I also think we have Leuenberger to do that. You don't need star Rickman to win a comp let alone 2. Just ask Geelong, St Kilda and Hawthorn! However also ask thoese theams if you need really good mids wo win a comp and they will say YES!

I think that we have a really good ruckman already in Leuy and McCauley can be an awsome back up ruckman at senior level IMO. Than we get Varcoe who will add alot to our midfield and I think that we have an outstanding future midfield with Varcoe the perfect cherry on top!

 

[charles202]

I would offer our 1st round pick and a player or 2 for Varcoe! I rate him very highly. If we offered him 600k a year that would convince him money wise, also

1st Round plus Clarkk would get the deal done for geelong for sure. However you guys don't seem to think we would do that deal.

Look guys, I love Clark and think he will become oone of the best Rickman in the comp. However I also think we have Leuenberger to do that. You don't need star Rickman to win a comp let alone 2. Just ask Geelong, St Kilda and Hawthorn! However also ask thoese theams if you need really good mids wo win a comp and they will say YES!

I think that we have a really good ruckman already in Leuy and McCauley can be an awsome back up ruckman at senior level IMO. Than we get Varcoe who will add alot to our midfield and I think that we have an outstanding future midfield with Varcoe the perfect cherry on top!

I almost fell of my chair when i read this.

People have been complaining that we gave up a pick in the teens and a third year player for a Coleman medalist and you follow it up with saying we trade a player who was almost AA last year and a pick in the top 6, for what is essentially an unproven midfielder.

I agree that deal would get done, and they will be laughing about it for the next decade! Trade rules - don't trade bigs for smalls.

I agree that Armitage is not the best fit for the team however we need to get good value for any of our trade options and a player swap of Armitage for Sherman may be a good deal for both players, a fresh start can be great.

 

[Nuggo]

Using Varcoe as an example - he would be great but take him out of the Geelong side and is his hunger for a premiership still there. Would it be better to go after a gun that hasn't won a premiership yet and really really wants one to one that already has one in the pocket?

Edit - How are we going to convince any player that we are close to getting a flag after this season. I reckon this season may have killed off any chance of getting a gun mid or two.

 

[POBT]

I said earlier on that Varcoe is worth our first pick and I'd be inclined to throw our second pick in the mix as well. But not Clark and pick 4/6. For starters, the only reason Geelong would even consider trading Varcoe is if his market worth is far in excess of what they can afford to pay him. Geelong wouldn't want Clark, who is on pretty good coin. I also think ruck is one area where Geelong is heavy on quantity, if not depth of quality. I think that they'll persist with an Ottens/Blake and Hawkins combination. Then they have two younger rucks developing as well. I reckon they would rather spend their money on keeping their midfield together, post GAJ.

I also think that Clark is worth a top 10 pick himself (easily) and I'm not sure that Varcoe is worth 2x top 10 picks just yet (in fact, very few midfielders would be).

Finally, trading Clark is the very essence of selling the farm.

Unfortunately, I reckon Varcoe is a pipe dream. Ablett leaving will free up funds and they'll be relying on the retirement of Milburn, Ottens and Mooney in the next couple of years to give them salary cap relief. I think a GAJ-less Geelong won't have too many issues in retaining the rest of their squad - unless they have another couple of Selwoods in the wings who deserve elite money within a few years of being drafted.

 

[POBT]

I said earlier on that Varcoe is worth our first pick and I'd be inclined to throw our second pick in the mix as well. But not Clark and pick 4/6. For starters, the only reason Geelong would even consider trading Varcoe is if his market worth is far in excess of what they can afford to pay him. Geelong wouldn't want Clark, who is on pretty good coin. I also think ruck is one area where Geelong is heavy on quantity, if not depth of quality. I think that they'll persist with an Ottens/Blake and Hawkins combination. Then they have two younger rucks developing as well. I reckon they would rather spend their money on keeping their midfield together, post GAJ.

I also think that Clark is worth a top 10 pick himself (easily) and I'm not sure that Varcoe is worth 2x top 10 picks just yet (in fact, very few midfielders would be).

Finally, trading Clark is the very essence of selling the farm.

Unfortunately, I reckon Varcoe is a pipe dream. Ablett leaving will free up funds and they'll be relying on the retirement of Milburn, Ottens and Mooney in the next couple of years to give them salary cap relief. I think a GAJ-less Geelong won't have too many issues in retaining the rest of their squad - unless they have another couple of Selwoods in the wings who deserve elite money within a few years of being drafted.

 

[Quigley]

If GAJ leaves Geelong I think the Cats look like a likely destination for Cox. Would slot into his pay slot and would give them a different but still very dangerous combination. He is one of the few guys on the market who would complement the current Geelong players very well.

 

[Snuka]

Think we've paid over the odds for some of the players we got last year. Agreed Varcoe would be a great pick up but he looks to be part of Geelong's plans long term so IMO he would only go if he wanted to leave (successful environment is usually a happy one and not many want to leave) and if we paid over the odds.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but with Fev now on our list, we would have little room to move in the salary cap (IMO this is the biggest problem with having Fev on our list despite what we gave up for him) so I can't imagine we have much cash to bring in quality players from other clubs (traded-for players always get paid over the odds). I loathe to chuck around player names like it's some sort of supercoach game (they are people after all) but I would hope if we do any trading it would be releasing players for more picks or swaps for players that fill needs in our team. Our recruiting since Vossy started (is it the same year Hadley took over as head recruiter?) has been good so why not give them the best opportunity to find the best players.

 

[irel]

Our recruiting since Vossy started (is it the same year Hadley took over as head recruiter?) has been good so why not give them the best opportunity to find the best players.

Hadley to the best of my knowledge has very little to do with recruiting. His main priority is drafting.

 

[POBT]

Our recruiting since Vossy started (is it the same year Hadley took over as head recruiter?) has been good so why not give them the best opportunity to find the best players.

While I agree that our recruiting has been very good, I don't think you can rule out trading for the right player. We either think we're a rough chance at a flag or we don't. If we don't, then we should go all out at the draft. If we do, then we should be looking to bolster our list in the best way possible. That is still more likely to be through the draft but we shouldn't close our eyes to the possibility of trading. I personally think that Varcoe is an elite player waiting to happen. We'd be rapt if we picked up Varcoe v2.0 with pick 4/6. So I don't see any big issue in trading that pick for him.

I do agree with you that he would be a big part of Geelong's future. And so I think the debate is hypothetical. But I believe it raises a good point about not disregarding the prospect of trading that first pick. If we were in total rebuild mode, then I think our first pick would be untouchable. However, we clearly are aiming for a tilt at the flag in the next 2 seasons. That may not be achievable but it is certainly more likely if we had T. Varcoe or someone of similar status on the list, compared to a 17/18yo, no matter how good that youngster turns out to be.

If I were setting the guidelines on the possible trade of that first pick it would be:

1. Player must be younger than 25 (guaranteeing that they'll be around for this premiership tilt and the next one).

2. Player must not have significant wear and tear injury concerns.

3. Player must be elite potential.

4. Player must add to our 2 most pressing areas of deficiencies - midfield skill and/or midfield goals.

It is likely that no available player will fit that criteria. In which case, we use the pick and move on, content that we've added to our young group. But if the opportunity presents itself to add a 22yo goal kicking midfielder to our list, then we should investigate it.

 

[POBT]

If GAJ leaves Geelong I think the Cats look like a likely destination for Cox. Would slot into his pay slot and would give them a different but still very dangerous combination. He is one of the few guys on the market who would complement the current Geelong players very well.

I disagree. I don't think Cox is a great fit for them, provided Ottens is on their list. Sure, Ottens is pretty unreliable but whilst he is with Geelong, he is a number one ruck. Having Cox would unbalance their list, IMO. They are getting by with their ruck combination. I actually really like Ottens/Hawkins together. I think spending more money on their ruck division is a waste.

Of course, if Ottens retires, then they would look very hard at Cox.

I don't believe Geelong will use the GAJ funds on another elite player unless they have to. I reckon they might add a B grader or two to their list, if they see a need (perhaps another tagger and a mid sized defender). But, by and large, I think that Ablett's share of the pie will simply go to the rest of the group. They just don't need to add to their mix - natural development and improvement should see them remain at the top for another few years, wear and tear permitting.

 

[dlanod]

But if the opportunity presents itself to add a 22yo goal kicking midfielder to our list, then we should investigate it.

Marc Murphy?

 

[Snuka]

Hadley to the best of my knowledge has very little to do with recruiting. His main priority is drafting.

Drafting is a kind of recruiting isn't it?

Sorry, I meant that the drafting has been pretty good since he's come on board and our WA drafting has always been good so. Hadley seems to be a common denominator in that.

You right POBT in that if the right player came along of course you'd look at it. Like you said though, we would have to be very lucky to find a player that fits all those criteria as well as wanting to make the move. I guess all trades are speculative when you think about it.

 

[Pancho Gonzales]

I've been thinking that Troy Selwood might be attractive to another club for a low pick (say 50 upwards). Apart from helping him restart his career at a club of his choice, it might also serve to get us another pick rather than simply de-listing him. Thoughts?