Trading up into top 10 for draft

[MarkT2]

The bloke who picks the talent the best lives at the club that wins the most flags. You can argue the toss all you want the results are the arbiter. Hine has done pertty well. we haven't done as well over a period as Geelong. Hawks have done pretty well for a while also. Sydney do a lot right. WCE seem to get it right a lot as well. I am not quite convinced about Adelaide. We are in that group but where exactly is hard to say. Somewhere toward the top end. When Sydney get a Kennedy while we get a Buckley I find it hard to say our guys are better. When Geelong win 3 flags it is ridiculous to suggest they haven't been a good margin ahead. Their test is now, as is ours.

 

[Tradepower]

A part from Daisy and Pendles Sidebottom and Beams Reid who all went first round Hines picks haven't been all that great.

So he only got the nucleus of a premiership team right

 

[NT.Thunder]

The bloke who picks the talent the best lives at the club that wins the most flags. You can argue the toss all you want the results are the arbiter. Hine has done pertty well. we haven't done as well over a period as Geelong. Hawks have done pretty well for a while also. Sydney do a lot right. WCE seem to get it right a lot as well. I am not quite convinced about Adelaide. We are in that group but where exactly is hard to say. Somewhere toward the top end. When Sydney get a Kennedy while we get a Buckley I find it hard to say our guys are better. When Geelong win 3 flags it is ridiculous to suggest they haven't been a good margin ahead. Their test is now, as is ours.

I think this is a pretty naive way to look at it and very high level.

Whilst choosing the cattle is the first piece of the jigsaw there is certainly a lot of influence in winning flags which comes from the development of players and the game plan. If you don't have the football department to support the picks then IMO they won't develop into elite footballers. Now I have no direct input with any AFL club, but I would say that the money we pour into our football department with resources, coaching staff and the likes allows us to develop footballers that more than likely may not be playing AFL football still if drafted by opposition clubs. I'm not sure if other clubs would have been able to develop guys like Toovey, Goldsack, Maxwell to name a few into the players they are now. I think that whilst Hine seems to be 1 of the best recruiters for picking talent, imo there's a lot of guys, girls and resources behind the scenes which make him look bloody good further down the track.

 

[wicksy]

A part from Daisy and Pendles Sidebottom and Beams Reid who all went first round Hines picks haven't been all that great. You can name a delisted player for every good player after that. This draft is really a make or break draft for him. He gets it wrong and he his average would be down. Gets it right and hes up. Has he really plucked out any STARS from 20 onwards?

Since when was 29 (Beams) first round?
What about Fasolo (45), Wellingham (rookie), Harry (rookie)?
Seedsman, Sinclair, Elliot all look ok?

What a f@#$% stupid post!!!

 

[Tradepower]

The bloke who picks the talent the best lives at the club that wins the most flags.

Got lucky with father son on Ablett, Scarlett and Hawkins.. he didn't really pick them, they picked themselves

 

[Axl the great]

As i have stated before, there is no such thing as a weak draft, every year great young players come from every where, Top 10, Round 2 and 3, Rookies, VFL SANFL WAFL mature age players, etc etc.

Its up to the recruiters to find them whenever and wherever that may be, look at Dayne Zorko? looking back he was easily worth a top 10 pick for a guy picked as a rookie, and the list goes on and on and on.

I think in the overall scheme of things, picks 17 and 19 and possibly 20 or 21 for Dawes is a fantastic result for us and i trust Hine to pick at least 2 out of the 3 that will make it and possibly 1 that will be A grade.

For a team like us that us that has a relatively good list and is looking for sustained success then 3 picks around that area gives you a much better chance to improve your team than one solitary pick in the top 10 in my opinion.

 

[MarkT2]

Got lucky with father son on Ablett, Scarlett and Hawkins.. he didn't really pick them, they picked themselves

They won 2 flags without any impact from Hawkins. Granted Scarlet and Ablett were gifts as it transpired but losing Ablett didn't hurt them either because their list was good enough. We had Shaw & Cloke as father/son picks anyway so I don't think you can put Geelong's superiority over us down to that.

 

[MarkT2]

I think this is a pretty naive way to look at it and very high level.

Whilst choosing the cattle is the first piece of the jigsaw there is certainly a lot of influence in winning flags which comes from the development of players and the game plan. If you don't have the football department to support the picks then IMO they won't develop into elite footballers. Now I have no direct input with any AFL club, but I would say that the money we pour into our football department with resources, coaching staff and the likes allows us to develop footballers that more than likely may not be playing AFL football still if drafted by opposition clubs. I'm not sure if other clubs would have been able to develop guys like Toovey, Goldsack, Maxwell to name a few into the players they are now. I think that whilst Hine seems to be 1 of the best recruiters for picking talent, imo there's a lot of guys, girls and resources behind the scenes which make him look bloody good further down the track.

The absolute fundamental for a club and overwhelmingly most important thing to nail is the list. Development, conditioning and medical aspects are all very important as well but irrelevent if the list isn't good enough. There is no more important person in a football club than the recruiting head IMO.

Miss out on Pavlich and pick Tambling over Franklin and you will struggle to get to first base even if you get lucky with Richo. Richo will be a player because he has talent not withstanding poor development and coaching.

Score Thomas and Pendlebury and the Muppets at the club that missed Pavlich and Franklin will only laugh for a short time. I still miss Greg Miller at Richmond!

The money we spend on the football department helps us greately but we still didn't win the last 2 flags because we didn't have enough good players.

 

[Tradepower]

They won 2 flags without any impact from Hawkins. Granted Scarlet and Ablett were gifts

Gifts? gifts you say.. the best fullback of the modern era and the best midfielder of the modern era

Oh yeah and which premiership did Hawkins contribute to? Remind me again?

Yeah they got a few gifts

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

Gifts? gifts you say.. the best fullback of the modern era and the best midfielder of the modern era

Oh yeah and which premiership did Hawkins contribute to? Remind me again?

Yeah they got a few gifts

I have to say (because this has long irked me) Geelong got a double bogey out of the 06 draft by taking Hawkins as F/S at pick 41 - one after Hawthorn took Josh Kennedy at 40. The reason being it enabled them to use their first rounder - pick 7 on Joel Selwood. Derek Hine has stated we'd have taken Selwood with our pick 8 which went on Ben Reid, admittedly a key player for us. The following year the F/S rule was adjusted forcing clubs to nominate and compete. Had the rule come in a year earlier Geelong would almost certainly have been forced to take Hawkins with their first pick and therefore miss out on Selwood. Wells (Geelong Recruiter) gets a lot of deserved kudos, but he's also had his share of luck. IMO, Selwood became that hard, inside, tackling mid that took Geelong's midfield to stratospheric levels and resulted in 2 flags. You can probably chalk the 3rd flag up to Hawkins. Yes, they have had some brilliant recruiting of other players and football is about the 22. But we all know how close many teams are to assembling the jigsaw, and it only takes that little bit of luck to tip you into or out of a flag (like Hawthorn trading Kennedy to the Swans or failing to do a deal for O'Keefe for example). For these reasons, I wouldn't mind us trying to engineer a pick upgrade if it meant we could snag a ready made, hard-ball winner that is right to go. Like Selwood in 07. He was laready a player in his first year. This would be gold for us and would make our midfield that much better. For similar reasons, it ticks me off that Geelong got Caddy. He may not have been the answer to our issues but he was a young, talented, strong-bodied midfielder ready to take the next step.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Since when was 29 (Beams) first round?
What about Fasolo (45), Wellingham (rookie), Harry (rookie)?
Seedsman, Sinclair, Elliot all look ok?

What a f@#$% stupid post!!!

Beams on the verge of first round. Verdict still out on Fasolo. Wellingham is gone. Seedsman verdict still out. Probably wont make it. Sinclair verdicts out struggled in the second half of the year. Elliot verdict out.
All i said is which SUPERSTAR has hine pulled out after the first round? He is no different to any other recruiter. Good picks go early then the shit is left over and generally doesn't make it.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Daniel Farmer 40s delisted.
Luke Rounds 60s will be delisted
The whole rookie lists from the last two years. Delisted
Hine is plucking some real gems of late.

 

[Tradepower]

Hine is plucking some real gems of late.

Including the Copeland trophy winner

 

[THATSGOLD]

Including the Copeland trophy winner

Who was highly rated. Second round pick. Any one after that or did he give up?

 

[Old Spice]

Hine knows when to trade into a strong draft and when to back off, see 2007.

 

[Old Spice]

Who was highly rated. Second round pick. Any one after that or did he give up?

So highly rate was Beams he went at 29.

 

[THATSGOLD]

So highly rate was Beams he went at 29.

29 would be considered a fairly high pick.

 

[wicksy]

Beams on the verge of first round. Verdict still out on Fasolo. Wellingham is gone. Seedsman verdict still out. Probably wont make it. Sinclair verdicts out struggled in the second half of the year. Elliot verdict out.
All i said is which SUPERSTAR has hine pulled out after the first round? He is no different to any other recruiter. Good picks go early then the shit is left over and generally doesn't make it.

So much wrong with this post.

- Beams was taken in the 2nd round which fits your criteria of "gems after first round". So that's one.
- Fasolo is going to be a 200+ player for us. The verdict is not still out on Fasolo. You're cwazy Jesus.....You're cwazy!!!!
- So what if Wellingham is gone. Hine still picked him in the rookie draft and turned him into a first rounder. Under your definition.... Gem after the first round.
- Seedsman, Sinclair, Elliot..... Of course the verdict is still out. They're in their 3rd pre-seasons. Elliot has shown enough that he should be around for a while taken with #25 and Seedsman just got a 2 year extension so there's a win..... Guess where he was picked....#76!!!! Sinclair.... He's not going to be a superstar but at 62, he's going to still be worthy of a 2nd rounder in the future.

17 other clubs would kill for Hine at their recruiting table.... Them's the facts!

 

[Old Spice]

Pick 29 is a high pick now?

Here's some names that went before him, and you tell me which Hine should have picked over Beams and we'll see how bad his judgment is:

Watts, Hartlett, Yarran, Rich, Ziebell, Vickery, Davis, L Johnson, T Lynch, Cordy, Blease, Strauss, Swift, M Brown, Shoenmakers, Trengove...ah f*ck it, you tell me besides Naitinui who you would have taken before him at pick 29.

 

[wicksy]

29 would be considered a fairly high pick.

This is what you said.....

All i said is which SUPERSTAR has hine pulled out after the first round?

This guy....

 

[THATSGOLD]

When Hine gets in to the 30s who does he really pull out?
Jarrad blight went after Beams at 45 Delisted.

Dawes went at 28. Wasted pick if he goes!
Brad Dick 44
Danny Stanley 21 Ryan Cook 23 Jack Anthony 37 from the same draft.. (Hine)

Not sure if this was Hine but pick 10 Chris Egan Delisted
Rusling 23 Delisted
Iacobucci 55 Delisted


Billy Morrison pick 17 Delisted
Brayden Shaw pick 32 Delisted
Brent Hall pick 35 Delisted

Rookie 1 15 Zane Leonard 0
Rookie 2 31 David Fanning 14
Rookie 3 46 Dean Benson 0
Rookie 4 60 Justin Crow 1

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Hine does need to strike a few home runs in this draft, but to be fair, the only way to judge Hine would be to compare his results with his peers at other clubs. To judge his success in isolation is probably unfair. Nathan Brown and Chris Dawes, both in Reid's draft, helped win us a premiership. There were some real dud picks between Dawes and number 1, so Hines had a good strike rate early on.

 

[THATSGOLD]

So much wrong with this post.

- Beams was taken in the 2nd round which fits your criteria of "gems after first round". So that's one.
- Fasolo is going to be a 200+ player for us. The verdict is not still out on Fasolo. You're cwazy Jesus.....You're cwazy!!!!
- So what if Wellingham is gone. Hine still picked him in the rookie draft and turned him into a first rounder. Under your definition.... Gem after the first round.
- Seedsman, Sinclair, Elliot..... Of course the verdict is still out. They're in their 3rd pre-seasons. Elliot has shown enough that he should be around for a while taken with #25 and Seedsman just got a 2 year extension so there's a win..... Guess where he was picked....#76!!!! Sinclair.... He's not going to be a superstar but at 62, he's going to still be worthy of a 2nd rounder in the future.

17 other clubs would kill for Hine at their recruiting table.... Them's the facts!

Like i said take out out run of good first round picks and Hines team would look pretty poor. Hine needs us to finish last or he basically struggles.

 

[Old Spice]

When Hine gets in to the 30s who does he really pull out?
Jarrad blight went after Beams at 45 Delisted.

Dawes went at 28. Wasted pick if he goes!
Brad Dick 44
Danny Stanley 21 Ryan Cook 23 Jack Anthony 37 from the same draft.. (Hine)

Not sure if this was Hine but pick 10 Chris Egan Delisted
Rusling 23 Delisted
Iacobucci 55 Delisted


Billy Morrison pick 17 Delisted
Brayden Shaw pick 32 Delisted
Brent Hall pick 35 Delisted

Rookie 1 15 Zane Leonard 0
Rookie 2 31 David Fanning 14
Rookie 3 46 Dean Benson 0
Rookie 4 60 Justin Crow 1

Quite evidently you don't even know when Hine took over, yet you decide you may as well take a few wild swings regardless.

He only took over in 2005 from Judkins. In the transition he still managed to pick up Thomas and Pnedles at 2 and 5. This at a time when everyone thought we were **** for taking Pendles. Stanley, Cook and Anthony were all busts but taken fairly late and it wasn't exactly a talent laden draft. Take a look at it and see for yourself.

I don't see how Dawes is a bust if we took him at 28 and get pick 20 for him.

And stating picks in the 40s like Blight are busts is just cloud-cuckoo-land stuff. Again, looking at the 2008 draft, tell me who after that pick has gone to any great heights.

If you want to pot someone, at least put some context around it or you look like a great big pillock. Ooops, too late.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Quite evidently you don't even know when Hine took over, yet you decide you may as well take a few wild swings regardless.

He only took over in 2005 from Judkins. In the transition he still managed to pick up Thomas and Pnedles at 2 and 5. This at a time when everyone thought we were **** for taking Pendles. Stanley, Cook and Anthony were all busts but taken fairly late and it wasn't exactly a talent laden draft. Take a look at it and see for yourself.

I don't see how Dawes is a bust if we took him at 28 and get pick 20 for him.

And stating picks in the 40s like Blight are busts is just cloud-cuckoo-land stuff. Again, looking at the 2008 draft, tell me who after that pick has gone to any great heights.

If you want to pot someone, at least put some context around it or you look like a great big pillock. Ooops, too late.

Well considering Dawes has been crap for two years and we need to start again with that pick with an 18 year who will take 5 years to develop fully and may not develop at all I'd say taking Dawes is a loss.
Cook and Stanley Anthony under Hine and all went pick 37 and under is a bust.
You seem to think 30s are high picks. Plenty of talent comes from the 30s up we just haven't got one under Hine.