Trent Cotchin vs Steele Sidebottom

[ManOfClay]

Teams tag the hell out of Cotchin because who else in the midfield full time for Richmond is worth tagging?

 

[Adam H]

Teams tag the hell out of Cotchin because who else in the midfield full time for Richmond is worth tagging?

Yeah Delidio doesn't hurt you!!!

 

[kozi]

Teams tag the hell out of Cotchin because who else in the midfield full time for Richmond is worth tagging?

Lol. So teams tag Cotchin because he's just an accumulator and because there's nobody else to tag.

You've already proven that your footy I.Q is close to 0, not sure it can go any lower.

 

[ManOfClay]

I've made my point, all you want to do is get personal.

 

[kozi]

I've made my point, all you want to do is get personal.

? You launched your point with a personal attack before you even made it.

First you contradicted yourself, now you're being hypocritical. I wonder what's coming next.

 

[ManOfClay]

? You launched your point with a personal attack before you even made

Questioning your age was pertinent. You very well could be a 16 year old who couldn't fully appreciate Matthew Boyd was a top level inside midfielder (although not truly elite).

I'm done with you. Cotchin is good but I would rather Sidebottom because of the greater ability to hurt the opposition

 

[kozi]

Questioning your age was pertinent. You very well could be a 16 year old who couldn't fully appreciate Matthew Boyd was a top level inside midfielder (although not truly elite)

If your points just got shot down by a 16 year old that's even more embarrassing for you.

Lucky for you I'm not. Unfortunately judging by your lack of footy knowledge you're much more likely to be closer to 16 years old.

 

[robertg22]

Good comparison but different players really, Cotchin is far better inside mid and Steele is the better outside mid. Both lack penetration in their kicking, but Cotchin turns it over more.

Cotchin's 2012 was great but hasn't really replicated that since. Sidebottom's extremely consistent and as others said his record in finals is impeccable, unlike Cotchin whose is deplorable. Based on that I've gone Steele but am obviously biased.

 

[Adam H]

Questioning your age was pertinent. You very well could be a 16 year old who couldn't fully appreciate Matthew Boyd was a top level inside midfielder (although not truly elite).

I'm done with you. Cotchin is good but I would rather Sidebottom because of the greater ability to hurt the opposition

If he was older than 16 he'd have seen how ineffective Boyd has been.

 

[kozi]

If he was older than 16 he'd have seen how ineffective Boyd has been.

One guy racks up outside possessions all game long with nobody going near him and is still ineffective with the ball. (Boyd)

The other is an inside mid, has guys hanging off him all game long, still has effective disposals but people bang on about his inefficient ones completely disregarding all the attention he gets and all the hard tags he cops. (Cotchin)

But yeah, the comparison is spot on!

 

[Farm Boy]

Both are underachieving IMO. Neither are very damaging, I'd probably have Sidebottom as the better player currently - but that is only by default (because Cotchin doesn't turn up when it matters).

 

[kozi]

Good comparison but different players really, Cotchin is far better inside mid and Steele is the better outside mid. Both lack penetration in their kicking, but Cotchin turns it over more.

Cotchin's 2012 was great but hasn't really replicated that since. Sidebottom's extremely consistent and as others said his record in finals is impeccable, unlike Cotchin whose is deplorable. Based on that I've gone Steele but am obviously biased.

Great post. Agree with most of this (apart from taking Sidebottom before Cotch obviously).

But where bias doesn't play a part is seeing inside players vs outside players. It would help if these comparisons were between players who actually have similar roles.

 

[ManOfClay]

One guy racks up outside possessions all game long with nobody going near him and is still ineffective with the ball. (Boyd)
n!

Well that one has already been debunked without question. More contested possessions, more clearances as a midfielder.

 

[kozi]

Well that one has already been debunked without question. More contested possessions, more clearances as a midfielder.

Debunked without question?

You said he has ONE season out of his 13 in the comp with more contested possessions. Lol. I find it interesting that you didn't talk about efficiency either, that would also be very bad for your argument.

 

[ManOfClay]

Debunked without question?

You said he has ONE season out of his 13 in the comp with more contested possessions. Lol. I find it interesting that you didn't talk about efficiency either, that would also be very bad for your argument.

Footywire has stats for cp from 2010.

2010, 11, 12, 13 Boyd averaged more contested possessions and clearances over each of those seasons.

Cotchin averaged more in 2014 admittedly. And more in 2015 when Boyd played halfback and made the AA squad.

But yea, Boyd was always outside while Cotchin is apparently an inside gun.

As for disposal efficiency, which is not the best stat, Boyd from 2010-2015 had a better disposal efficiency in every year except 2011. With his move to halfback his DE rose to 79% in 2015. Cotchin hovers around the mid to low 60s in that entire period.

Consider yourself schooled

 

[Adam H]

Footywire has stats for cp from 2010.

2010, 11, 12, 13 Boyd averaged more contested possessions and clearances over each of those seasons.

Cotchin averaged more in 2014 admittedly. And more in 2015 when Boyd played halfback and made the AA squad.

But yea, Boyd was always outside while Cotchin is apparently an inside gun.

As for disposal efficiency, which is not the best stat, Boyd from 2010-2015 had a better disposal efficiency in every year except 2011. With his move to halfback his DE rose to 79% in 2015. Cotchin hovers around the mid to low 60s in that entire period.

Consider yourself schooled

Given that Boyd would be instructed to handball or kick short as his kicking is woeful you'd expect his efficiency to be up. Also Boyd would have very rarely if ever been tagged.

 

[kozi]

Footywire has stats for cp from 2010.

2010, 11, 12, 13 Boyd averaged more contested possessions and clearances over each of those seasons.

Cotchin averaged more in 2014 admittedly. And more in 2015 when Boyd played halfback and made the AA squad.

But yea, Boyd was always outside while Cotchin is apparently an inside gun.

As for disposal efficiency, which is not the best stat, Boyd from 2010-2015 had a better disposal efficiency in every year except 2011. With his move to halfback his DE rose to 79% in 2015. Cotchin hovers around the mid to low 60s in that entire period.

Consider yourself schooled

Schooled? Whilst being heavily misguided, I find the confidence amusing. I'll be sure to actually take you to school now.

You firstly tried to say that Cotchin vs Boyd is an "apt comparison".

That has been disproved. So now you've completely changed your tune and are trying to use raw possession numbers to somehow say that Boyd is a better inside player. This in itself is laughable.

The fact you're using possession/clearance numbers whilst completely disregarding any other factor just further demonstrates your lack of football knowledge. But I can play that game too:

2011: Games where Cotchin was tagged: 14. Games where Boyd was tagged: 1
2012: Games where Cotchin was tagged: 14. Games where Boyd was tagged: 2
2013: Games where Cotchin was tagged: 10. Games where Boyd was tagged: 0
2014: Games where Cotchin was tagged: 15. Games where Boyd was tagged: 0
2015: Boyd moved to half back so I'll be fair and leave that out.

Now with these numbers and you professing how much of an accumulator Boyd is you'd hope to god he had a higher amount of possessions over this period.

Further, if you can't see how this effects their efficiency, you are a bozo.

If you can't see how Cotchin being tagged 53 times over this period vs Boyd being tagged only 3 times proves who the much more damaging player is, you are also a bozo. Or do you have more football nous than all these AFL coaches?

I think not.

"Consider yourself schooled"

 

[ManOfClay]

where are those games tagged stats?

Also I think all my posts pretty well confirmed it was an apt comparison, compared to the factual inaccuracy that Boyd is an outside mid.

You keep shifting the goalposts anyway so what's the point?

Cotchin isn't that great mate. Sorry to say it

 

[kozi]

where are those games tagged stats?

Also I think all my posts pretty well confirmed it was an apt comparison, compared to the factual inaccuracy that Boyd is an outside mid.

You keep shifting the goalposts anyway so what's the point?

Cotchin isn't that great mate. Sorry to say it

So, you've gone from saying Cotchin vs Boyd is an apt comparison to somehow trying to say that Boyd is a better inside player.... and now you're saying I've shifted the goalposts?

You are delusional mate.

Anyhow, since I've proven your argument using possession numbers as evidence to be flawed, is there anything else?

 

[ManOfClay]

You said he has ONE season out of his 13 in the comp with more contested possessions. Lol. I find it interesting that you didn't talk about efficiency either, that would also be very bad for your argument.

You said this.

I came back with:

Footywire has stats for cp from 2010.

2010, 11, 12, 13 Boyd averaged more contested possessions and clearances over each of those seasons.

Cotchin averaged more in 2014 admittedly. And more in 2015 when Boyd played halfback and made the AA squad.

But yea, Boyd was always outside while Cotchin is apparently an inside gun.

As for disposal efficiency, which is not the best stat, Boyd from 2010-2015 had a better disposal efficiency in every year except 2011. With his move to halfback his DE rose to 79% in 2015. Cotchin hovers around the mid to low 60s in that entire period.

But now that's irrelevant apparently? There's your shifted goalposts.

This thread is wildly off topic but I'd still like to know where you got those games tagged figures from. It really sounds like you've just made them up. but perhaps that would just encourage the continued derailment.

In the end Sidebottom is better due to his hurt factor and ability to stand up in finals compared to Cotchin

 

[kozi]

You said this.

I came back with:

But now that's irrelevant apparently? There's your shifted goalposts.

Sigh.

You've just quoted EXACTLY where you've shifted the goal posts from saying it's a fair comparison to trying to make an argument for Boyd being a better inside player based on him having more possession/clearance numbers. I haven't shifted anything, am just following on from your derailed lead trying to make this thread into Cotchin vs Boyd and knocking it on the head as I go.

And fanfooty is the only place that keeps logs of players being tagged. Or are you going to say that Cotchin hasn't been tagged all those times?

I'll summarize:

Boyd is an accumulator. Cotchin is not. If he was just an accumulator of possessions there is no way in hell he'd be tagged in almost 3/4 of his games, therefore your comparison about them both being accumulators was flawed from beginning. Arguing against this is pretty much saying you know more than AFL coaches. Nobody is going to buy that.

The delusion has been interesting, but ultimately you're out of your depth here. Now let it go and let this thread get back onto the ACTUAL comparison which is Cotchin vs Sidebottom.

 

[Chism]

Keep the personal attacks out if.

Discuss the topic at hand only without the abuse and rubbish.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Both guns, who pay completely different roles?

Surely a better comparison would be more worth discussing.

 

[Etsi ketsi]

Seriously people c'mon

 

[The Joker]

Cotchin, Steele is a great 4th stringer though.