Troy Selwood RIP

[Blackhawk42]

Some good points being made, but as a professional who has worked with people with severe mental ilness for 2 decades, having been involved in the postvention of over 30 suicides..... i can tell you its not just the issue of 'manning up' anymore.

This is old thinking now. Men and women have very different experiences of life in our western society, each with unique challenges. But for men they often sit in a challenging space, where being a man is almost a taboo, the identity of men has been so distorted that many don't know who they are or who they are supposed to be. This demonization i see time and time again, is juxtaposed with the modern demands on men, required to do so much for their family, work endlessly to provide for them, often to only be criticized for who they are. They withdraw from social networks, friends etc, due to the demands elsewhere and become intensely lonely. Add in divorce, parental alienation, financial ruin etc and you have a recipe for suicide.

We have to find a way to lift up men in our society so they can be proud of what they are.

Great post.

Some of this was being discussed in the society and culture section of Bigfooty recently but too many just try and force it into political debate once you start 'comparing' the unique experiences and challenges men and women have.

Domestic violence, workplace behaviours and sexual assault are at the forefront of modern society (with good reason), but many of the 'male-centric' challenges you listed are either ignored or discussed too infrequently.

We should be doing a better job or lifting up everybody, and unique challenges often separated between the sexes should be free to discuss without the inevitable shitstorm of gender politics that follows.

 

[TheSunGod]

It can happen in any family, regardless of how good things seem from the outside, you never know what's happening on the inside.

Very very sad.

Yep my young nephew drove his Hilux over the side of a mountain. No one had any inkling there was something wrong beforehand. Fortunately he survived, and has since found a loving young lady and is living a happy life.

 

[StCicatriz]

The bolded part - that happens, yes. There is an entitlement that is not being overcome.

But I think the first part missed the mark. I don't know if I'd say men are so much demonised these days, but what is and isn't on the list of what makes "a good man" is a bit confusing for young men now, there is evidence of this.

We are creating new norms around gender roles/identity for society (which is good), but we are slow to let go of some of the old ones. It's complicated, but the one aspect I have seen in my lifetime is the impact of health (particularly mental health) on the ability to earn an income. My anecdotal experience is that men seem to be given a lot less time to recover and go back to earning, before their partners leave them, than the other way around. This is just anecdotal but the numbers may support it, not sure. But it aligns with my thoughts that we are moving in the right direction on some aspects quicker than on others, and this can create some internal conflict.

i believe the term is Hypergamy

i was a believer of this until i realised how many women stand by absolute drop kicks especially early on (early 20s). you have blokes on the gear, issues with alcohol and or gambling, hell some don't even work. so their girlfriends will be out earning a wage and paying their way. often end up being owned a bunch of cash.

i do think theres a group of women who by the 30s are fed up with this shit and move on. usually to older men who can support them better.

but its a massive generalisation. would be interesting to see some kind of statistic like divorce or separation stats. but i guess getting an honest answer there might be hard.

 

[StCicatriz]

Great post.

Some of this was being discussed in the society and culture section of Bigfooty recently but too many just try and force it into political debate once you start 'comparing' the unique experiences and challenges men and women have.

Domestic violence, workplace behaviours and sexual assault are at the forefront of modern society (with good reason), but many of the 'male-centric' challenges you listed are either ignored or discussed too infrequently.

We should be doing a better job or lifting up everybody, and unique challenges often separated between the sexes should be free to discuss without the inevitable shitstorm of gender politics that follows.

i can only go on my own lived experiences but to be honest i felt a stigma due to the actions of other men or just inherent bias from social norms. it'd pop up from time to time, but i'd remember that i'm not the primary concern and other issues are more important. for example women are dying every day or are assaulted by men, which isn't acceptable. they need to be our priority.

having said that we do carry a stigma at no fault of our individual selves. for example i was shocked the hospital was booting me out after the birth of my first child. just didn't see it coming so it jolted me. i remember thinking but he's my kid too and i want to spend time with him. also surely i can help my partner sleep and recover. was pretty shit.

then i remember picking up my daughter and niece from school. they're both in the same class. all teachers were aware they were cousins. was an on going topic of discussion. i go to pick her up, which i had done before, only to be told No and that they hadn't been told i was picking her up. i end up telling my mother in law, the biological grand ma, who was standing behind me by about 15m. she walked up and said "i'm here to take <nieces name>" to the exact same lady and she didnt even blink a ****in eye.

this mentality just seems to extend out. it's almpst like society as a whole thinks its ok to treat men however they like because they'll just get on with it.

i've had some friends go through some horrendous outcomes from the family courts with separation, where they were the more stable partner. talking where the mum has ran off with a drug dealer. wrapped her car around 3 other cars and charged with DUI. kids have filmed her passed out on her phone etc. courts still went in her favor 60/40. he has the kids every 2nd weekend.

 

[demondavey]

It still really is a taboo. Despite what people say.

RU OK? Was still thrown around as a joke on this forum in recent years. And in all the years of "RU OK day" at work, well let's just say we still have a "don't ask, don't tell" attitude to this sort of thing.

The rhetoric and the reality couldn't be further apart.

It shouldn’t be taboo, but men opening up about emotions and feelings is still problematic it seems. There are few idiots on BF that have thrown around the RU OK as an insult, so clearly they are the ones stooping to the levels of making it a joke or using it to insult people because they see it as not ‘blokey’. I’d like to see moderators impose bans if it’s bandied around in the wrong context.

No idea what happened to Troy Selwood to bring him to this point, and it’s really hard because one never really knows but now he is gone and that’s the end.

 

[demondavey]

Vale Troy and condolensces to Selwood family.

Seeing as my post was edited, why is beyond me, but having seen Troy play every game, I've never seen a player get concussed as much as Troy has and hope this wasn't a contributing factor.

Was as tough as they come and never shirked a contest. Will be sorely missed.

I think that might have had a bit to do with it. You can bet that these issues of concussion and CTE might be really coming back to haunt the AFL soon.

 

[kickazz]

I think that might have had a bit to do with it. You can bet that these issues of concussion and CTE might be really coming back to haunt the AFL soon.

It's why, as frustrating as we feel about it as fans at times, they simply have to get serious about legislating around head injury stuff.

 

[demondavey]

i can only go on my own lived experiences but to be honest i felt a stigma due to the actions of other men or just inherent bias from social norms. it'd pop up from time to time, but i'd remember that i'm not the primary concern and other issues are more important. for example women are dying every day or are assaulted by men, which isn't acceptable. they need to be our priority.

having said that we do carry a stigma at no fault of our individual selves. for example i was shocked the hospital was booting me out after the birth of my first child. just didn't see it coming so it jolted me. i remember thinking but he's my kid too and i want to spend time with him. also surely i can help my partner sleep and recover. was pretty shit.

then i remember picking up my daughter and niece from school. they're both in the same class. all teachers were aware they were cousins. was an on going topic of discussion. i go to pick her up, which i had done before, only to be told No and that they hadn't been told i was picking her up. i end up telling my mother in law, the biological grand ma, who was standing behind me by about 15m. she walked up and said "i'm here to take <nieces name>" to the exact same lady and she didnt even blink a ****in eye.

this mentality just seems to extend out. it's almpst like society as a whole thinks its ok to treat men however they like because they'll just get on with it.

i've had some friends go through some horrendous outcomes from the family courts with separation, where they were the more stable partner. talking where the mum has ran off with a drug dealer. wrapped her car around 3 other cars and charged with DUI. kids have filmed her passed out on her phone etc. courts still went in her favor 60/40. he has the kids every 2nd weekend.

What you experienced at school is unusual, typically you don’t have to be listed as a parent to take a child home, kinder and pre school you do. I’ve arranged to drop off kids at home because mum or dad texts and says I am late, the kid knows me and I’ll just tell the teacher I am dropping them home.

Your school might be different.

I think treating men in a certain way (negatively) is becoming less common, I mean back to your hospital experience that’s just standard policy. Particularly if it’s public.

Typically men have been the perpetrators of a majority percentage of assaults and violence against women, kids and other men. I literally see aggressive men driving every day who tailgate and get road rage like you’d not believe. Men bring on so much of their own problems when it comes to anger and assaults etc, so I’ve got zero sympathy for them when they can’t keep their temper in check. It’s embarrassing. If its their mental health that they use as an excuse, fine, but go and see a psychologist (readily available) as opposed to acting out aggressively.

 

[demondavey]

It's why, as frustrating as we feel about it as fans at times, they simply have to get serious about legislating around head injury stuff.

It’s going to be incredibly difficult. I saw the head knock with Rance and that was nobody’s fault at all. Those situations you can’t legislate. Other issues, sure, but it’ll be very hard. Umpiring, professionalism and investment is going to need to increase so much.

 

[seanoff]

Terrible news. RIP. Hopefully his family can find some peace in the future.

 

[T2B_]

having seen Troy play every game, I've never seen a player get concussed as much as Troy has and hope this wasn't a contributing factor.

Was dreading reading something like this, but kind of expected it. He's a Selwood after all, hard as they come.

Yeah mental health in general is one thing and does need more attention, and while we don't know if concussions were a contributing factor here, you can see why the AFL really wants to protect the head given what some research has suggested. Much more work to do.

Anyway RIP Troy, bloody tragic.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I must admit my first thought ran to CTE. Who knows but it does make you think. It’s shocking stuff.

 

[Saint]

It's hard enough trying to manage an upward professional trajectory in a professional setting. I can't imagine what it's like to have peaked in earning potential at age ~25, to feel like all the adulation and success is in the past and perhaps a lot less to look forward to in some aspects of life and perhaps not being able to see what else in life is valued.

Or it might have nothing at all to do with it.

 

[Bont the Lord]

This country woefully underfunds mental health support.

Couldn't agree more. Only 10 sessions a year and it often only covers half

 

[Bont the Lord]

Tragic news. , Dale Tapping has also passed away at age 59. assistant coach at 3 clubs , lost his battle with cancer. May they both RIP. Condolences to both the Selwood and Tapping families and close friends.

Coached me at Old Scotch. Bloody sad

 

[name change]

That is appalling.

ABC is just a Murdoch mirror these days

 

[Newbie Real Talk]

The black dog strikes again.
Very sad. Especially with young children who will have to live with that forever.

 

[Ross]

Don't worry about the brother of Adam or Scott; just Joel. FFS, very poor.

Didn't bother reading the article beyond that but wouldn't surprise me if Troy's wife's name wasn't even mentioned. Just Joel.

For whatever it's worth, the statement on the AFL site attributed to the Selwood family made no mention of Troy having a wife or partner. Not one to defend the media but there may have been reasons in this case.

It's all still incredibly sad though. RIP, Troy.

 

[Bont the Lord]

For whatever it's worth, the statement on the AFL site attributed to the Selwood family made no mention of Troy having a wife or partner. Not one to defend the media but there may have been reasons in this case.

It's all still incredibly sad though. RIP, Troy.

They split up

 

[jdstorm]

Couldn't agree more. Only 10 sessions a year and it often only covers half

Half. I wish.

Average return is about 80bucks until you get past the health threshold. Which is 500 for low income or 2k for most.

So good psychologists can be over 300 an hour. So that’s $220 a session out of pocket.

Until you pass the cap but if it’s your main expense that’s 10 sessions then your done and paying full price.

Goes real fast if you need weekly or fortnightly support

 

[Cyber_punk]

I also think as a society we are just meaner to.

Only need to read comments in random FB feeds and even on here when you have differing views and its just a cesspool of mean spiritedness for those who don't agree and get personal and then we wonder why suicide is rife in Australia particularly with younger people thorugh social media and generally online and personal bullying.

Its one area as a society I don't think we've improved on.

I'd add that it's getting and going to get worse since we have countless young men being influenced by people like Andrew Tate who argue depression isn't real.

We've had 1-2 generations at best (gen x and milennials) of more open minded attitudes toward mental health sandwiched inbetween the old school 'man's man' stuff and the more recent right wing manosphere misinformation rubbish.

 

[justlookingaround]

I also think as a society we are just meaner to.

Only need to read comments in random FB feeds and even on here when you have differing views and its just a cesspool of mean spiritedness for those who don't agree and get personal and then we wonder why suicide is rife in Australia particularly with younger people thorugh social media and generally online and personal bullying.

Its one area as a society I don't think we've improved on.

I like to think, and desperately hope, that internet comments sections are not an accurate representation of the average person and rather are the outlet of people who are entitled and self important enough to feel that their voice must be heard, the same people who ride ass on the road, speed in car parks, spit gum on the sidewalk, litter, push their way on the train before letting people get off... they exist and there's enough to encounter them every day, but they're still not the majority of us.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I remember Wayne Schwass speaking at our work and saying words to the effect of "This is what depression and suicidal ideation look like" and sharing a picture of him with a smile from ear to ear, holding the 1996 premiership cup. Norwich City released a video for World Mental Health Day a couple of years ago and it's bloody brilliant.



Essentially the message is "don't forget to check in with those around you who may be showing obvious signs of depression; but depression is complicated and it's vital to check in regularly with everyone."

You never know what's going on beneath the surface, especially if you don't ask.

 

[JHF1870]

It can happen in any family, regardless of how good things seem from the outside, you never know what's happening on the inside.

Very very sad.

i know people 10x happier and outgoing than me take their life. I think some people mask their feelings well.

 

[kickazz]

I remember Wayne Schwass speaking at our work and saying words to the effect of "This is what depression and suicidal ideation look like" and sharing a picture of him with a smile from ear to ear, holding the 1996 premiership cup. Norwich City released a video for World Mental Health Day a couple of years ago and it's bloody brilliant.



Essentially the message is "don't forget to check in with those around you who may be showing obvious signs of depression; but depression is complicated and it's vital to check in regularly with everyone."

You never know what's going on beneath the surface, especially if you don't ask.

Sigh.

I don't want this to get too political but it can't be helped in a way.

I was just listening to news radio and the story was about closure of Bowls Clubs. An academic was talking about their inherent value to wellbeing of people who use them, above and beyond their (often lack of) profitability.

We have a society that more and more can measure the cost of everything but the value of nothing. Great ideas are not great until they are monetised. Public amenity is just a waste of taxes. We work harder, stay home more, buy more shit and are less connected than ever before.