Unpopular Basketball Opinions

[Andrew3737]

Nice input. Always find the ones who can't refute, have the lowest bball IQ. You automatically dq'd yourself when you put a guy, that most prob your father never saw play, above any modern day great. LeBron was on the cover of si from the age of 15. Michael was getting cut from his High School team at the same age.

Jog on.

 

[jod23]

Nice input. Always find the ones who can't refute, have the lowest bball IQ. You automatically dq'd yourself when you put a guy, that most prob your father never saw play, above any modern day great. LeBron was on the cover of si from the age of 15. Michael was getting cut from his High School team at the same age.

Jog on.

LeBron was probably better than Jordan at 15 years old. But that means **** and all. So there's that.

Also covers of SI. Might wanna check who holds the record for those mate.

 

[jod23]

But on a serious note, your first point was HILARIOUS!

 

[Andrew3737]

You're really bad at making arguments. Talented = had it since they were kids. LeBron was better than Jordan for a long time (age comparison shows us this) LeBron was arguably the best player in the world @ age 21. Michael was still in college and hadn't decided if he wanted to finish his 4th year or go into the draft, where he wasn't even the unanimous top 3 pick (bulls were looking at barkley and perkins.)



Just to show how silly and wrong your opinion is

Yeah, its not particularly close. Threw cousy in their for lol's even though its not that fair on him. VORP+BPM+WS, plus a lead in PER, only slightly behind in TS%? Yeah its pretty irrefutable. Have fun with your Bill Russell and Wilt are better than LeBron thoughts though.

 

[jod23]

You're really bad at making arguments. Talented = had it since they were kids. LeBron was better than Jordan for a long time (age comparison shows us this) LeBron was arguably the best player in the world @ age 21. Michael was still in college and hadn't decided if he wanted to finish his 4th year or go into the draft, where he wasn't even the unanimous top 3 pick (bulls were looking at barkley and perkins.)



Just to show how silly and wrong your opinion is

Yeah, its not particularly close. Threw cousy in their for lol's even though its not that fair on him. VORP+BPM+WS, plus a lead in PER, only slightly behind in TS%? Yeah its pretty irrefutable. Have fun with your Bill Russell and Wilt are better than LeBron thoughts though.

Talented does = has it since they were kids. Talented means the best. If you are the most talented, you're the best. Jordan is the GOAT. So of course he is more talented. He just got better and better as he got older and older.

LeBron was very good from an early age but Jordan quickly went past him.

Also completely different era's. Jordan wasnt expected to come straight outta high school. He was expected to finish four years in college, which he did.

Also I understand you're young and rely on crazy stats like % of times LeBron has been the 3rd last person to pass the ball to someone who then missed a shot but rebounded it and put it back it in. Or most pivots whilst not traveling or LeBron's average hair loss per season.

You get a clearer view of a player when you watch them play. Stat's arent everything and I say that coming from a Jordan fan who pretty much leads most stats anyways.

So Jordan is the best of both worlds I guess.

 

[fidstar]

You're really bad at making arguments. Talented = had it since they were kids. LeBron was better than Jordan for a long time (age comparison shows us this) LeBron was arguably the best player in the world @ age 21. Michael was still in college and hadn't decided if he wanted to finish his 4th year or go into the draft, where he wasn't even the unanimous top 3 pick (bulls were looking at barkley and perkins.)



Just to show how silly and wrong your opinion is

Yeah, its not particularly close. Threw cousy in their for lol's even though its not that fair on him. VORP+BPM+WS, plus a lead in PER, only slightly behind in TS%? Yeah its pretty irrefutable. Have fun with your Bill Russell and Wilt are better than LeBron thoughts though.

Probably unfair to have completed careers in there when LeBron isn't finished. PERs etc tend to drop off in the final few years (which will also happen to LeBron). To put in perspective if you take Shaq numbers to when he was 33 he'd have a PER of 27.8. Kareem would have 26.7.

Not saying Shaq is better fwiw, but it's not a great comparison how you've shown it. Kareem has an argument though (even though I'd have LeBron above him).

Kareem's numbers are also skewed by VORP+BPM+WS not being included for his first 4 seasons when he was dominate (31/16)

 

[Andrew3737]

Talented does = has it since they were kids. Talented means the best. If you are the most talented, you're the best. Jordan is the GOAT. So of course he is more talented. He just got better and better as he got older and older.

This is plain wrong.

Brandon Roy, Andrew Bynum, Greg Oden, Dwight Howard and Derrick Rose have a buckload of talent. Injuries and mentally weak made them bad/worse overall players. Derrick Rose has more talent than almost anyone in the league, but you can't say he is a better player.

Also completely different era's. Jordan wasnt expected to come straight outta high school. He was expected to finish four years in college, which he did.

Again, wrong. Nice facts. Didn't finish his 4th year.

Also I understand you're young and rely on crazy stats like % of times LeBron has been the 3rd last person to pass the ball to someone who then missed a shot but rebounded it and put it back it in. Or most pivots whilst not traveling or LeBron's average hair loss per season.

You get a clearer view of a player when you watch them play. Stat's arent everything and I say that coming from a Jordan fan who pretty much leads most stats anyways.

So Jordan is the best of both worlds I guess.

Surprised? Wrong. LeBron will have a lead in every stat except a minor lead in PER. Watching someone is subjective. Looking at stats in the proper perspective are not.

Probably unfair to have completed careers in there when LeBron isn't finished. PERs etc tend to drop off in the final few years (which will also happen to LeBron). To put in perspective if you take Shaq numbers to when he was 33 he'd have a PER of 27.8. Kareem would have 26.7.

Not saying Shaq is better fwiw, but it's not a great comparison how you've shown it. Kareem has an argument though (even though I'd have LeBron above him).

Kareem's numbers are also skewed by VORP+BPM+WS not being included for his first 4 seasons when he was dominate (31/16)

It wasn't to show any of that, its just to show how far LeBron is ahead of those guys. Shaq is a top 3 guy in peak. I love Shaq. Kareem has GOAT career but his peak wasn't super high compared to LeBron/Shaq/MJ. It's just simply wrong to put any of these guys ahead of Lebron not named MJ or Magic. Magic has ridiculously high TS% on super low USG% for his whole career which is so impressive that if you say you want Magic ahead of LeBron, I ain't going to argue yet.

 

[fidstar]

It wasn't to show any of that, its just to show how far LeBron is ahead of those guys.

And like I was showing. There's a few reason he's so far ahead of some of those guys.

 

[Andrew3737]

Even if his PER drops, to what MJ's does, (low 20's and 19), his PER is still going to be higher. His TS will likely stay the same or even improve due to his jump shot somehow getting better as he gets older. I get the early year stuff, which is why I don't include Russell and Wilt in those comparisons, and I even said Cousy is for the lols.

 

[Bostonian]

Nice input. Always find the ones who can't refute, have the lowest bball IQ. You automatically dq'd yourself when you put a guy, that most prob your father never saw play, above any modern day great. LeBron was on the cover of si from the age of 15. Michael was getting cut from his High School team at the same age.

Jog on.

And 198 players were drafted before Tom Brady.

Dumb argument is dumb.

 

[Andrew3737]

And 198 players were drafted before Tom Brady.

Dumb argument is dumb.

I dont know much about NFL, but i do know Brady flunked his draft workout/combine. So that doesnt even compare.

 

[Bostonian]

I dont know much about NFL, but i do know Brady flunked his draft workout/combine. So that doesnt even compare.

Yeah it does, Jordan getting cut from high school team is like Brady stinking up the combine.

It has zero relevance to their greatness in their respective careers in their chosen sports.

 

[Andrew3737]

Do you really not understand the difference between talent and actual output? Lebron had it since he was 8, Jordan didnt. Thats the point. LeBron is and was more talented. Hell even Shaq was more talented than Jordan.

 

[PP34]

Shaq more talented than MJ? I've heard it all now.

 

[fidstar]

Do you really not understand the difference between talent and actual output? Lebron had it since he was 8, Jordan didnt. Thats the point. LeBron is and was more talented. Hell even Shaq was more talented than Jordan.

Being good in high school means nothing. The fact you are arguing that it is somehow important is really strange.

LeBron dominated (as did Shaq) because he was physically more gifted than anyone else at that age. Good for him for being more physically mature than his fellow high school competition. Funny enough, when MJ had his growth spurt he started setting high school scoring records.

Also having Shaq as more talented than Jordan is laughable (like "Cousy is in the same class as LeBron" laughable). You could argue Shaq was more dominate, but talented is just wrong.

 

[Andrew3737]

Look, if im arguing lebron>mj after this year. Im bringing up he was better when he was younger and more talented. Yeah, its no deal closer, but it counts for something.

 

[fidstar]

Look, if im arguing lebron>mj after this year. Im bringing up he was better when he was younger and more talented. Yeah, its no deal closer, but it counts for something.

If LeBron followers arguments for why he is better than MJ is that LeBron was better in high-school, then they probably should just forfeit the argument.

 

[Bostonian]

Do you really not understand the difference between talent and actual output? Lebron had it since he was 8, Jordan didnt. Thats the point. LeBron is and was more talented. Hell even Shaq was more talented than Jordan.

Who gives a crap what they are doing at 8. It has ZERO to do with what they did in the NBA.

Shaq more talented than Jordan? The guy couldn't shoot free throws for shit.

Jordan dominated in an era that was set up for big men. LeBron is playing in an era that's tailor made for his game.

That's the reality of retrospectively looking at the match up.

 

[calyam]

I heard rumours that Sebastian Telfair could dribble with both hands before he turned one. Clearly the real GOAT.

Spoiler

Scratch that he could dribble on both hands. My bad.

 

[jod23]

This is plain wrong.

Brandon Roy, Andrew Bynum, Greg Oden, Dwight Howard and Derrick Rose have a buckload of talent. Injuries and mentally weak made them bad/worse overall players. Derrick Rose has more talent than almost anyone in the league, but you can't say he is a better player.

What actually are you talking about.

Bynum is dead set average. Oden was just a decent big man creuled by injuries. Dwight Howard is an extremely limited basketball player.

Rose and Roy were pretty talented players before injury killed them.

But as for LeBron v Jordan and talent. It's a no contest.

Jordan is pretty much better in every facet of the game. Sooo... this is awkward.

 

[Andrew3737]

What actually are you talking about.

Bynum is dead set average. Oden was just a decent big man creuled by injuries. Dwight Howard is an extremely limited basketball player.

Rose and Roy were pretty talented players before injury killed them.

But as for LeBron v Jordan and talent. It's a no contest.

Jordan is pretty much better in every facet of the game. Sooo... this is awkward.

Andrew "Dead set average" Bynum who went though a stretch of 21.3 PER + 61% TS for 5 injury riddled seasons

Greg Oden and Dwight Howard both described as once in a generation talents, one got injured and the other doesn't cut it mentally. Woj said it best, "Dwight had the talent to average 30/15"

Not even going to comment on your jordan>lebron because its obviously wrong so w/e

 

[Damon_3388]

Look, if im arguing lebron>mj after this year. Im bringing up he was better when he was younger and more talented. Yeah, its no deal closer, but it counts for something.

At the age he's at now (32 years, 49 days), LeBron is just as good and has achieved just as much as Jordan (up to 04/04/1995, three weeks into the first comeback).

 

[PP34]

The thing with Jordan is that some people really do take the whole GOAT thing too far. He had a fantastic career and I still have him as my GOAT, but this idea that he's completely untouchable is pretty ridiculous. Several all-time greats have fantastic resumes so to act like he's that much better than them is nuts.

The whole 6-0 finals argument is just bullshit too. We all know MJ took a while to get to the finals, he entered the finals at the perfect time in his career and had teams well equipped to take down the majority of his teams. The 91 Lakers were an old ageing team, the Blazers and Sonics were inferior and the Bulls just simply had too much in the series against the Suns and Jazz. LeBron meanwhile has had the luck of playing in a shitty Eastern conference, one that hasn't had two contenders since 2006 probably and it has meant several finals series where his team really wasn't that good in the scheme of things. 2007 of course he was going to lose, 2011 we all know he failed, 2014 he ran into a Spurs juggernaut and his teammates went missing and 2015 his two sidekicks weren't even available.

It seems to be a one sticking point that so many always use but it just seems ridiculous to me. To base an argument and being untouchable on such a thing just doesn't make sense. The whole of NBA postseason can be so fickle. Health constantly affects outcomes and plays can totally switch series. The argument would make more sense if LeBron didn't show up in all the losses but that isn't the case.

2007 he put up his usual numbers, but shot terribly and turned it over a lot. Can you blame him when the odds were stacked so much against him? Imagine 23 year old Michael Jordan taking the '86 Bulls into the finals against the Rockets. It would've been murder.

2011 we all know he had his shortcomings.

2014 the Spurs totally smoked the Heat with their offence, and LeBron was the only Heat player to turn up. Can't blame him at all.

2015 the odds were again horribly stacked against him, particularly once Kyrie went down. Let's not forget that they still troubled an all-time great Warriors team and almost had a 3-0 lead. LeBron was terrific.

The only finals loss LeBron legitimately doesn't have an excuse for is 2011. 2014 he had a great team, but they didn't show up. What else was he meant to do? One man couldn't defend that Spurs offence.

I've never been a big LeBron fan, but like I said this whole notion that MJ is untouchable and so far beyond others is ridiculous. LeBron lead an all-time great sports comeback in 2016 against the greatest regular season team ever. You're telling me that him doing that and then perhaps knocking them off against this year wouldn't put him closer and in a debate versus MJ?

Yes MJ had a huge impact on the game, was the dominant star of the '90s and was a great winner, but he's not the only guy to do that stuff. LeBron has dominated the East since 2007, he's put up crazy numbers and he's won titles. Not everyone was afforded the luck MJ had when it comes to winning titles. You can't deny there is luck involved in winning championships. You can put yourself in position to win, but at the end of the day things have to go your way. Particularly health.

LeBron's impact is ridiculous. I'm really not sure how you can watch him and think there's some massive gulf between the way he plays and the way MJ plays. Jordan fanboys talk as though he performed miracles on the court.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

If LeBron followers arguments for why he is better than MJ is that LeBron was better in high-school, then they probably should just forfeit the argument.

I cannot believe people who saw Jordan seriously think LeBron is better. There's more to basketball than just stats. Jordan was simply phenomenal. I used to think Magic was the best player I ever saw ... and then along came Jordan. I doubt if we'll see a player better than he was.

I love the way people use stats, rubbery at best, to support their arguments. Gives me a laugh.

 

[FrankDrebin]

When you are making a case for GOAT you need a near faultless resume.

The fact Lebron did a runner to form a big 3 to make sure he got a ring(s)
His famous no-show against the Celts whilst playing for the Cavs (no matter the reason)
Completely sh*tting the bed against the Mavs in that first finals series for the Heat (he was at best the third best player on the court in that series….can you imagine MJ in his prime settling for that in a finals?)
The Heat getting completely destroyed by the Spurs in that second finals series between the two teams (and even though Lebron was great that series he was still outplayed by his direct opponent Kawhi).

None of these things I could see MJ doing which would all count against Lebron in any GOAT discussion.