VFL VFL Round 18 v Richmond. Sunday July 28 10:05am @ Swinburne Centre.

[Scodog10]

We need to be positive and patient VP but we also need to temper our expectations

• Allan showed a lot but he he still needlessly runs into pressure / handballs forward to no one, elements that need to be removed from his game if he has any chance in the 1s
• Ryan: I think he has the shape of the prototype running footballer - he now has some muscle on his frame. But he hasn't really achieved or shown anything yet. I am hopeful.
• TJ is just learning the caper but his athleticism and enthusiasm is infectious (but his ball-drop is so high it has mountain goats and snow on it - something he will need to work on)
• Haz had a break-out game, but it's his first
• Macrae, is he VFL or AFL?
• Ditto Reef

So, they might all become permanent fixtures in the seniors or it's possible that they may all not make that final step.

We need to look really carefully at the list and make smart decisions going forward in terms of trading and drafting to build towards sustained success.

Just like water Macrae has found his level

Unfortunately some blokes never make the jump.

 

[Scodog10]

Can't we just burn them back again?

I'm deeply bored with our current game-style, and wish for it to be fun and exciting again.

Our running in waves with linking handballs from the back-line has also all but disappeared. Now we just bomb it to the boundary line and turn it over. Reminds me of that Einstein quote about the definition of insanity.

If you like that style of footy Hawthorn are a must watch at the moment. They’ll make a PF at least with some fixturing luck through the finals (avoiding the Dogs in week 1 and Brisbane/ Sydney in week 2). They’re as good as we were in mid 2022 to mid 2023.

The big difference between them and us right now is their 1 v 1 wins back of centre. It was only 18 months ago that the likes of IQ, Moore, Maynard and god love him Murphy were rock solid as a unit and reliable in open play. Now they’re reliable as a unit, but easily exploited when isolated. Scrimshaw in the space of 6 months has gone from fringe to elite it’s staggering. Frost from Frost ball to a rock solid anchor KPD. Sicily is doing Sicily things. Impey is where IQ was this time last year. D’Ambrosio is picking the eyes out of it ala Naicos 18 months ago. Confidence is a helluva drug!

 

[Finnishpie]

He was far from perfect but I quite liked the look of Reef in defence.
Certainly enough to offer him another 1-2 year contract if he wants to stay. He is only Nick’s age. I would persevere

Totally.

Surprised they didn't try him back earlier.

 

[Finnishpie]

Just like water Macrae has found his level

Unfortunately some blokes never make the jump.

Blah blah we don't really know blah

 

[Harry O]

This is promising, his stat sheet looked the goods but I didn't get to see the game. Any other insights? Really hope to start to see his testing pace appear in matches.

One positive insight is the cold and wet weather , soft ground surface, and small suburban ground were very un WA conditions… and not conditions Ed has done well in traditionally

 

[Scodog10]

Blah blah we don't really know blah

We do. Go back and watch Rd 14 and pay close attention to how a 19yo tore him a new one. Since then it’s been a revolving door of fringe guys getting a look in at senior level between Long, Bytel and Sullivan with no Macrae. He won’t be on the list next year.

 

[stormskye]

We do. Go back and watch Rd 14 and pay close attention to how a 19yo tore him a new one. Since then it’s been a revolving door of fringe guys getting a look in at senior level between Long, Bytel and Sullivan with no Macrae. He won’t be on the list next year.

I agree that fin won’t make it as an afl mid. But he’s contracted next season. Can’t see any suitors tbh.

 

[Scodog10]

I agree that fin won’t make it as an afl mid. But he’s contracted next season. Can’t see any suitors tbh.

Someone will take a punt on him based on draft history and his promising preseason. The reality for me though is he wouldn’t be best 23 at a single club and it only gets harder for him at Collingwood when Mitchell and JDG are fit in 2025. He had a window to cement a role at the club and he missed it. It happens.

 

[sr36]

Someone will take a punt on him based on draft history and his promising preseason. The reality for me though is he wouldn’t be best 23 at a single club and it only gets harder for him at Collingwood when Mitchell and JDG are fit in 2025. He had a window to cement a role at the club and he missed it. It happens.

Time will tell, but I can't see another club picking him - unless it's as an SSP after a good preseason with them - which would mean that we'd have to delist a contracted player for that to occur. Delist and re-rookie seems likely to me.

 

[LuckyLee]

So did Andy Otten

Andy Otten

Age

35

Ht

192cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.3

4star

K

7.3

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

4.9

5star

T

2.2

4star

MG

175.6

3star

No current season stats available

D

14.2

4star

K

5.4

2star

HB

8.8

5star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.4

4star

in his interview he mentioned they liked the look of Reef down back as he has the qualities to compete down there.
Would just add to his versatility.

Reef doesn’t need more versatility, he (and the coaches) needs to commit to a specific role and lock it down. Right now he’s shaping up as a Jack of all trades, master of none.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[No SPIN]

Someone will take a punt on him based on draft history and his promising preseason. The reality for me though is he wouldn’t be best 23 at a single club and it only gets harder for him at Collingwood when Mitchell and JDG are fit in 2025. He had a window to cement a role at the club and he missed it. It happens.

We are desperate for midfield talent.
Macrae’s preseason form was excellent and is entirely the basis for reflection.
If he is capable of that level of performance ( which would attract other suitors), then the path of least resistance to ask why he’s dropped off.
I recall you saying quite rightly, that he was mismanaged in the early games which halted his confidence and momentum.
If you believe that, then it’s not a talent issue it’s a confidence issue.

 

[sr36]

Reef doesn’t need more versatility, he (and the coaches) needs to commit to a specific role and lock it down. Right now he’s shaping up as a Jack of all trades, master of none.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

They had, but it's not working out, so he'll get tried in other roles.

 

[stormskye]

We are desperate for midfield talent.
Macrae’s preseason form was excellent and is entirely the basis for reflection.
If he is capable of that level of performance ( which would attract other suitors), then the path of least resistance to ask why he’s dropped off.
I recall you saying he was mismanaged in the early games which halted his confidence and momentum.
If you believe that, then it’s not a talent issue it’s a confidence issue.

Do you think it’s telling that he’s only looked good in the pre season and against the witches hat eagles spinny. That’s no coincidence IMO.

Some make it. Most don’t. His surname and pick range are irrelevant but are two reasons why people struggle to accept his limitations.

The clubs added Sullivan and long this season. Along with bytel. That’s stamped his papers even more

 

[No SPIN]

Do you think it’s telling that he’s only looked good in the pre season and against the witches hat eagles spinny. That’s no coincidence IMO.

Some make it. Most don’t. His surname and pick range are irrelevant but are two reasons why people struggle to accept his limitations.

The clubs added Sullivan and long this season. Along with bytel. That’s stamped his papers even more

It’s the same witches hats that the professionals were effusive about.
It’s not my judgment.

I think Sullivan and Long also have limitation, so to me it’s a triple dead heat in that regard.
Does a Macrae in preseason form go passed both of them?
I think the answer is yes.

 

[sr36]

We are desperate for midfield talent.
Macrae’s preseason form was excellent and is entirely the basis for reflection.
If he is capable of that level of performance ( which would attract other suitors), then the path of least resistance to ask why he’s dropped off.
I recall you saying quite rightly, that he was mismanaged in the early games which halted his confidence and momentum.
If you believe that, then it’s not a talent issue it’s a confidence issue.

I assume that you're talking training sessions, during which there was a lot of Finn hype.

In the lead up practice match against Richmond- Finn only played a half and did very little.

 

[Jen2310]

I assume that you're talking training sessions, during which there was a lot of Finn hype.

In the lead up practice match against Richmond- Finn only played a half and did very little.

Think it mentioned he was quite impressive in the limited game time he had.

He's shown AFL qualities this season in patches. A big pre-season, needs to get stronger and his focus needs to be is putting it all together for 4 quarters going into 2025

 

[No SPIN]

I assume that you're talking training sessions, during which there was a lot of Finn hype.

In the lead up practice match against Richmond- Finn only played a half and did very little.

I’m really talking about the praise he was receiving from Coaches about all aspects of preseason.

 

[sr36]

I’m really talking about the praise he was receiving from Coaches about all aspects of preseason.

Actions though were not giving him a full game in the final practice match or round 1.

 

[No SPIN]

Actions though were not giving him a full game in the final practice match or round 1.

I think as other have said, failing to playing him when he was flying didn’t help his confidence.

 

[sr36]

I think as other have said, failing to playing him when he was flying didn’t help his confidence.

But you're using coach praise to decide he was flying (at training) and ignoring coach actions which suggest that he may not actually have been flying.

 

[No SPIN]

But you're using coach praise to decide he was flying (at training) and ignoring coach actions which suggest that he may not actually have been flying.

I’ m prepared to accept their praise as
genuine- that they failed to then give the kid a go is a puzzle.
And criticism others have also made.

 

[Scodog10]

Time will tell, but I can't see another club picking him - unless it's as an SSP after a good preseason with them - which would mean that we'd have to delist a contracted player for that to occur. Delist and re-rookie seems likely to me.

Quite true, time time will tell, but if I’m framing a market it would be short odds of a Cooper Stephens type trade where he’s the add on to a bigger deal, long odds that he’s delisted and then rookied (I don’t even know if we have spots with Smit and Long both added mid season plus Sullivan, Bytel and Eyre pre-season on top of Markov last year) and extremely long odds on the status quo. Clubs will think they’ve got another Ginnivan who just needs to feel the love.

On a side note I think we’ll see a lot of movement in the bottom end of the list this year with AJ, Macrae, McInnes, at least one of Begg/ Steene, and possibly Richards and Krueger to depart. I’m not suggesting I’m in favour of those moves rather the tea leaves on contract statuses and on field results are starting to tell a story. The only doubt I have is on the veterans because based on public commentary of McRae’s discussions with MM I think it’s likely two depart this year and no news is bad news on a farewell tour, IMO.

 

[sr36]

Quite true, time time will tell, but if I’m framing a market it would be short odds of a Cooper Stephens type trade where he’s the add on to a bigger deal, long odds that he’s delisted and then rookied (I don’t even know if we have spots with Smit and Long both added mid season plus Sullivan, Bytel and Eyre pre-season on top of Markov last year) and extremely long odds on the status quo. Clubs will think they’ve got another Ginnivan who just needs to feel the love.

On a side note I think we’ll see a lot of movement in the bottom end of the list this year with AJ, Macrae, McInnes, at least one of Begg/ Steene, and possibly Richards and Krueger to depart. I’m not suggesting I’m in favour of those moves rather the tea leaves on contract statuses and on field results are starting to tell a story. The only doubt I have is on the veterans because based on public commentary of McRae’s discussions with MM I think it’s likely two depart this year and no news is bad news on a farewell tour, IMO.

Rookie wise - we've added two extras to our list in Smit and Long, but Carmichael has already retired and surely Begg doesn't survive. So that would have us back to square. But Long, Sullivan and Bytel will all be out of contract - I doubt we'll keep all of them. Steene isn't a certainty to be retained. Dean's time may be up? I suspect we'll have spots available.

 

[sr36]

I’ m prepared to accept their praise as
genuine- that they failed to then give the kid a go is a puzzle.
And criticism others have also made.

You consider a coach talking up a player to carry more weight than the coach selecting the player?

 

[Scodog10]

Rookie wise - we've added two extras to our list in Smit and Long, but Carmichael has already retired and surely Begg doesn't survive. So that would have us back to square. But Long, Sullivan and Bytel will all be out of contract - I doubt we'll keep all of them. Steene isn't a certainty to be retained. Dean's time may be up? I suspect we'll have spots available.

I think Steene is senior listed and was the player elevated to make up the numbers end of 2023. To my knowledge AJ’s the one still on the rookie list and he’s gone. Begg probably gone as well. I’d have Macrae 4th of that group because he’s had the time the others haven’t on our list and has arguably been the weakest performed in 2024, but that’s only my take.

Let’s say I’m wrong Steene, AJ, Begg, Carmichael, Dean for Eyre, Bytel, Sullivan, Long, Smit… It again comes down to those 4 and as you’ve been suggesting the actions of coaches hint at Macrae being 4th. In the end we might find a spot, but someone will bob up with interest.