VIC fans - merge, relocate or relegate?

[DEVO]

There is a better chance of West Coast and Fremantle being kicked out of the AFL (along with all other WA teams from all National compeitions) when WA secedes from the Commonwealth.

 

[Off Tap]

I wouldn't be surprised if the AFL makes it a 24 round season even if there were 20 clubs (Play each other once + 5 matches) so that all the Big VIC teams and Interstate Rival teams (Collingwood vs. Richmond)-(Adelaide vs. Port Adelaide) for example play each twice even if its not fair on the other teams for max revenue of more matches being played and more money of broadcasting rights.

I see your point but how much money does the AFL need though?

It's just greed on their behalf.

I'd rather a true, uncompromised, even competition rather than more blockbusters.

If the competition was 20 teams there would be more H&A games than there is now.

Those blockbuster games can partly be made up by having wild card rounds at final times or playing the old VFL finals system of top 5.

Instead, they could have 2 finals divisions of 1, 4, 5, 8, 10 and 2, 3, 6, 7, 9. Winners of each finals division play in the GF.

Just an idea.

I don't want to see any teams go if they can survive on their own.

If they can't then down to a 14 team competition and 26 rounds H&A.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

I see your point but how much money does the AFL need though?

It's just greed on their behalf.

I'd rather a true, uncompromised, even competition rather than more blockbusters.

If the competition was 20 teams there would be more H&A games than there is now.

Those blockbuster games can partly be made up by having wild card rounds at final times or playing the old VFL finals system of top 5.

Instead, they could have 2 finals divisions of 1, 4, 5, 8, 10 and 2, 3, 6, 7, 9. Winners of each finals division play in the GF.

Just an idea.

I don't want to see any teams go if they can survive on their own.

If they can't then down to a 14 team competition and 26 rounds H&A.

Don't get me wrong, I would love a equal draw with each team playing each other once.

But do you really think the AFL would only play 19 rounds with each team playing once if they could somehow squeeze in an extra 4-5 rounds (40-50 matches) to increase the amount of money they receive every year from broadcasting, sponsors and other deals.

Add in the Final 10 for finals also and they would receive a massive truckload of money for the broadcasting and other deals then they do now in the league currently.

The AFL always have and will want in the future the best financial deals possible to help strengthen that gap of the Number 1 Football Code in Australia from other sports getting there such as the NRL, Super Rugby and A-League.

 

[The Warlord]

Brb will compose my reply after I post the important thread: "Which club will most likely have a current or ex player in the news for a methamphetamine related crime spree".

 

[Gavin Excell]

Is there capacity/,growth to warrant a 3rd WA club

 

[BuffDog]

Dons - closest to the airport so relocating is slightly more convenient.

 

[Sonny Bonds]

Since the Go Dees owns the MCG. Our home status. The home of Football. MCC and all. Started Aussie league football.

All the other Vic sides can offer a solution to join our club/merge, with the exception of Geelong.

 

[Kozzie_Magic]

Brisbane is proof that it would never be a merger, sadly the Lions ceased to exist in the AFL

 

[_Mike_]

1 token game at Whitten Oval against someone like the Suns, but I doubt it will ever happen.

Stadium is not up to the standards required, needs a lot of work in upgrading public facilities, seating, access and security. Not worth sinking the money for 1 AFL game here & there IMO. The difference between the AFL and AFLW's games are purely based on average crowd attendances to games, 8000 was a pretty high attendance # the last time they played an AFLW game at Whitten Oval (Western Oval) with a maximum 10K pre-covid capacity.

 

[Papa G]

Melbourne remind of the the closeted Luis Carruthers in American Psycho.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Melbourne remind of the the closeted Luis Carruthers in American Psycho.

View attachment 1047824

Compared to Port who are the crackhead Rickety Cricket from Always Sunny

 

[Mr north man]

Since the Go Dees owns the MCG. Our home status. The home of Football. MCC and all. Started Aussie league football.

All the other Vic sides can offer a solution to join our club/merge, with the exception of Geelong.

LOL the stadium is called Melbourne but you don’t own it .
Richmond,Collingwood,Hawthorn,or any other club with big supporter base Essendon,Geelong or Carlton when they play games on the MCG and Cricket Australia produces more $$$ then your club .
So to say your club is a joke your club is just like my club a small club trying to stay debt free in these horrible Corvid times.
In fact in the MCC eyes your not even on the upper echelon of the pecking order and if the MCC wanted to get rid of you they will just like the AFL will do to my club to Tasmania if they want.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

LOL the stadium is called Melbourne but you don’t own it .
Richmond,Collingwood,Hawthorn,or any other club with big supporter base Essendon,Geelong or Carlton when they play games on the MCG and Cricket Australia produces more $$$ then your club .
So to say your club is a joke your club is just like my club a small club trying to stay debt free in these horrible Corvid times.
In fact in the MCC eyes your not even on the upper echelon of the pecking order and if the MCC wanted to get rid of you they will just like the AFL will do to my club to Tasmania if they want.

 

[JackFlash]

Ideally the AFL would like 22 teams and have a 21 round season where every team plays each other once....the pandemic and position we all find ourselves in may see an end to that dream. Merges and relocation will cause mass chaos and heartbreak. We could lose teams altogether before any of that happens?

 

[Carringbush2010]

The key to success is encouraging supporters of small Victorian clubs to move to Big Victorian. Children tend to start with the big clubs anyway and they effectively cannibalise the small Victorian over time.

Didn't know people were robots and do as their told and go follow another club.

Children tend to start with the big clubs anyway and they effectively cannibalise the small Victorian over time.

Hey you're right!, I remember back in the 70's when I was a kid I was a Freo supporter and then jumped on Collingwood for absolutely no reason at all! Just to keep the narrative of cannibilizing smaller clubs. Gotta keep the narrative alive right.

Pretty sure your posts are sarcasm given that they contain ridiculous ideas of the fan supporting other clubs 'for the good of the game'. So I've replied in kind.

 

[mcfazza28]

Didn't know people were robots and do as their told and go follow another club.

Children tend to start with the big clubs anyway and they effectively cannibalise the small Victorian over time.

Hey you're right!, I remember back in the 70's when I was a kid I was a Freo supporter and then jumped on Collingwood for absolutely no reason at all! Just to keep the narrative of cannibilizing smaller clubs. Gotta keep the narrative alive right.

Pretty sure your posts are sarcasm given that they contain ridiculous ideas of the fan supporting other clubs 'for the good of the game'. So I've replied in kind.

I am an analyst for a living. One of the things I do is assess various options in a document called a feasibility study.

I usually find the reason a feasibility study is requested by the business is when they believe there may be a better option than the status quo.

The first thing you do is speak to all stakeholders involved to understand their view of the world. Naturally, there are different views but they generally fall into two camps. People willing to consider change and people unwilling to consider change.

Usually those open to change can see the status quo may not be working for all stakeholders and want to at least consider change may be beneficial.

Whereas, those resistant to change often won’t consider change as the status quo is beneficial to them. Any successful business is always assessing if there is a better way to do things. Resistance to assessing change comes from self interest and the inability to consider other people’s work view.

I have tried to provide serious options from less teams, to conferences, to divisions. Self interested stakeholders see any change as a threat to their preferential position. In addition, having preferential treatment for a long period leads to entitlement.

I feel a little insulted by your response as you usually present reasoned arguments based on fact without personal insults.

I never insult or condescend. I find your response insulting and condescending.

I try to see your world view but you rudely disregard mine. That smacks of entitlement.

You are a great poster who is better than this.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I am an analyst for a living. One of the things I do is assess various options in a document called a feasibility study.

I usually find the reason a feasibility study is requested by the business is when they believe there may be a better option than the status quo.

The first thing you do is speak to all stakeholders involved to understand their view of the world. Naturally, there are different views but they generally fall into two camps. People willing to consider change and people unwilling to consider change.

Usually those open to change can see the status quo may not be working for all stakeholders and want to at least consider change may be beneficial.

Whereas, those resistant to change often won’t consider change as the status quo is beneficial to them. Any successful business is always assessing if there is a better way to do things. Resistance to assessing change comes from self interest and the inability to consider other people’s work view.

I have tried to provide serious options from less teams, to conferences, to divisions. Self interested stakeholders see any change as a threat to their preferential position. In addition, having preferential treatment for a long period leads to entitlement.

I feel a little insulted by your response as you usually present reasoned arguments based on fact without personal insults.

I never insult or condescend. I find your response insulting and condescending.

I try to see your world view but you rudely disregard mine. That smacks of entitlement.

You are a great poster who is better than this.

Lol this is hilarious, you call someone entitled, yet this post reeks of entitlement.

Just because you work as an analyst, does not make you an expert on the issue of sports.

i have read many of your posts and if we tried some of your ideas, i think the AFL would be broke very quickly, so IMO you are not very good at what you do.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I am an analyst for a living. One of the things I do is assess various options in a document called a feasibility study.

I usually find the reason a feasibility study is requested by the business is when they believe there may be a better option than the status quo.

The first thing you do is speak to all stakeholders involved to understand their view of the world. Naturally, there are different views but they generally fall into two camps. People willing to consider change and people unwilling to consider change.

Usually those open to change can see the status quo may not be working for all stakeholders and want to at least consider change may be beneficial.

Whereas, those resistant to change often won’t consider change as the status quo is beneficial to them. Any successful business is always assessing if there is a better way to do things. Resistance to assessing change comes from self interest and the inability to consider other people’s work view.

I have tried to provide serious options from less teams, to conferences, to divisions. Self interested stakeholders see any change as a threat to their preferential position. In addition, having preferential treatment for a long period leads to entitlement.

I feel a little insulted by your response as you usually present reasoned arguments based on fact without personal insults.

I never insult or condescend. I find your response insulting and condescending.

I try to see your world view but you rudely disregard mine. That smacks of entitlement.

You are a great poster who is better than this.

It's not meant to be 'insulting', I'm merely pointing out that people are not robots and will not change teams in an effort for change even if it is good for the competition long term.

It is sarcasm, not condescension nor insult. I still maintain that 'encouraging people to change clubs' and expecting that to happen is ridiculous and is the reason for the sarcasm. That does not make my assessment of your view as a personal insult of a rude disregard, a disregard of your view yes but not 'rude'.

I get the bulk of your post, but you can't apply that to 'fanatics' i:e footy fans, they're emotionally invested to the point of identity. So again, proposing an encouragement to lure them away from what they're emotionally invested is ridiculous.

 

[mcfazza28]

Lol this is hilarious, you call someone entitled, yet this post reeks of entitlement.

Just because you work as an analyst, does not make you an expert on the issue of sports.

i have read many of your posts and if we tried some of your ideas, i think the AFL would be broke very quickly, so IMO you are not very good at what you do.

I respect your opinion and you have every right to respond in the way you have.

My posts are articulate and well formed. You just don’t agree with me.

And trust me. I’m not very entitled at the moment after 7 months of the last year in lockdown London.

 

[mcfazza28]

It's not meant to be 'insulting', I'm merely pointing out that people are not robots and will not change teams in an effort for change even if it is good for the competition long term.

It is sarcasm, not condescension nor insult. I still maintain that 'encouraging people to change clubs' and expecting that to happen is ridiculous and is the reason for the sarcasm. That does not make my assessment of your view as a personal insult of a rude disregard, a disregard of your view yes but not 'rude'.

I get the bulk of your post, but you can't apply that to 'fanatics' i:e footy fans, they're emotionally invested to the point of identity. So again, proposing an encouragement to lure them away from what they're emotionally invested is ridiculous.

I really like your posts and your relatively balanced view.

I must apologise if I sounded sanctimonious in any way.

I must also apologise for any passive aggression. I have been in lockdown for 6 of the last 10 months as I live in London and I am shielding my son who is at risk and was also made redundant as they cleared out the high earners due to COVID.

Apologies and respect. I only want to participate in civil conversations and stepped over the line.

 

[FootyJunkie]

Compared to Port who are the crackhead Rickety Cricket from Always Sunny

more accurate if he was drinking a Farmers Union in the morning, or a West End at night

 

[Roylion]

The key to success is encouraging supporters of small Victorian clubs to move to Big Victorian.

How would you 'encourage' this? I was the supporter of a small Victorian club. Supporting a big Victoran club instead would be the last thing I would do.

Too many teams is ruining the league.

On what basis?

 

[Bjo187]

How would you 'encourage' this? I was the supporter of a small Victorian club. Supporting a big Victoran club instead would be the last thing I would do.



On what basis?

I'll answer this, too many teams means people can lose interest because there is too much competition to win a flag let alone be top 4. The more casual follower will jump off if their team is perennially down the bottom and already you can be in the top 50 percent of teams in the comp and not play finals. In addition to this, talent spread too thin, but I've been a fan of 16 a side which would fix this and a number of other issues.

 

[PJays]

How would you 'encourage' this? I was the supporter of a small Victorian club. Supporting a big Victoran club instead would be the last thing I would do.

Same.

I could never support Hawthorn, Collingwood or Richmond.

They're anathema to the supporters of small clubs.

 

[Roylion]

I'll answer this, too many teams means people can lose interest because there is too much competition to win a flag let alone be top 4. The more casual follower will jump off if their team is perennially down the bottom and already you can be in the top 50 percent of teams in the comp and not play finals.

And does this happen under the current equalisation policies of the AFL?

The salary cap, a reverse-order player draft and funding distributions mean that all clubs do have a chance of playing finals. Since 2012 when GWS entered the competition, of the 18 AFL sides only Gold Coast hasn't played finals.

No. of final series since 2012
Hawthorn 6
Adelaide 4
Sydney 7
Collingwood 5
West Coast 7
Geelong 8
Fremantle 4
North Melbourne 4
Richmond 7
Port Adelaide 4
Carlton 1
Essendon 3
Western Bulldogs 4
Greater Western Sydney 4
Melbourne 1
Brisbane Lions 2
St Kilda 1

In addition to this, talent spread too thin,

I've never understood this argument. The talent pool isn't any more stretched now than it was thirty years ago.

There would be commensurate talent in 2021 to that of 1996, even though we now have two extra clubs. Australia's population in 1996 was about 18.3 million. In 2020 Australia's population will reach approximately 25.5 million. That's an extra 7 million people...about 3.5 million more males making up a larger talent pool to draw from. Adding four further teams between 1996-2020 has meant the addition of another 160-168 players from that pool into the AFL system. Australia will have 50-70 million population in the second half of the 21st century and Melbourne likely to the largest capital city with 4.2 million people in 2020. By 2050, Melbourne is expected to reach 8.5 million while Sydney's population is predicted to be 8.3 million under the ABS's medium-growth model.