Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[LoungeLizard]

No.

Then people will continue to suggest nothing is done.

You think others should do everything for you, get off your lazy arses and do something for yourselves for once.

Because over here you are just minnows, you might be a big club in your state, but here no-one cares about you.

 

[doppleganger]

You're kidding yourself if you think the crowds are at all close to even for a packed MCG game against the Pies.

When did I say they are even?

The comment was Geelong players are familiar at the G and they enjoy strong crowd support.

In a 85k crowd on Easter Monday, Geelong would have 30k+ fans there minimum. In a big final at the G it would be the same.

Crowds don't have to be exactly the same for it to be neutral.

Play a final at Cat Park and if they give entitlements to AFL members, Collingwood would also end up with a larger % of fans at the game too.

But whatever, it's good, there's nothing like a packed MCG for a finals game and if we somehow 'earn' a home final against the Pies this year it should and will be played at the MCG and it'll be an awesome spectacle. I don't think we really have a case to argue anymore for getting home finals, we drew over 90K for a Brisbane prelim last year and even a final against GWS or Gold Coast this year would bring in over 60K.

Agree.

I think H&A games are different though and we should play the Pies and the other big Victorian teams at home once every few years at the very least.

Would be great to play at CatPark instead of the usual away game at Marvel for a change.

The AFL have contracts in place for the Pies to play 3 games at Marvel and 14 at the G.

This is why of the last 10 H&A games between Pies and Cats, 8 have been Pies "home" games at the G.

Doubt people would be happy with the Pies avoiding a trip outside of Vic to instead play at CatPark, so the only really likely option now that AFL own Docklands is to drop that game and play it at Cat Park.

 

[blue harvest]

For me, the issue is not Collingwood playing 14 MCG games. They’re a massive club with a massive support base and there’s a lot of tickets to be sold every week. Fair hit. The issue is the back ended MCG games and virtual lack of travel. It happened to Richmond in 18 and 19 as well.

Travel as a factor has already been discussed, statistically and factually it’s been discussed and it’s relevant. If you’re going to disagree with it you’re a MAGA conspiracist or just dim. If Collingwood alternates the last 8-9 weeks between the G and playing interstate then they are hitting the finals much more fairly given they could be (will be) top 4 and could get 3x MCG games.

By all means schedule those MCG games against non tenant sides, but put them on the road the others and even send them to Geelong one week. If it’s going to cause supporter anguish then give them another MCG game to keep them quiet.

WC play X amount of games at home at what’s called a proper HG advantage, however they simply have to travel. Why does Collingwood get basically no travel leading into finals? From round 14-15 onwards it should be week in week out. Front load their MCG games.

Pies play 6 interstate games. In a 24 round season you would expect to get 2 in the last 8 weeks and that's what they got.

If they backend all their interstate games you would be complaining their cushy start to the season has enabled them to get clear on top of the ladder and rest their stars from interstate games leading into finals.

 

[Ross]

When did I say they are even?

I thought you meant strong support as close to even, all good.

The AFL have contracts in place for the Pies to play 3 games at Marvel and 14 at the G.

I wasn't aware of the Docklands requirement, any link to it? If it exists then I hope Geelong get can get a home game against the Pies before they're allowed to sell a Docklands game to the Gold Coast.

 

[demondavey]

Pies play 6 interstate games. In a 24 round season you would expect to get 2 in the last 8 weeks and that's what they got.

If they backend all their interstate games you would be complaining their cushy start to the season has enabled them to get clear on top of the ladder and rest their stars from interstate games leading into finals.

I definitely would not complain if they were front ended.

 

[doppleganger]

I thought you meant strong support as close to even, all good.

I wasn't aware of the Docklands requirement, any link to it? If it exists then I hope Geelong get can get a home game against the Pies before they're allowed to sell a Docklands game to the Gold Coast.

Only can find old articles from back when it wasn't AFL owned.

Magpies assured of Docklands deal

www.theage.com.au

COLLINGWOOD has been exempted from Etihad Stadium's latest powerplay against the AFL, under which North Melbourne will be forced to hand over a cheque of at least $100,000 to play Port Adelaide on Saturday night.

The Magpies have been assured by stadium chief Ian Collins that their relatively generous four-year deal still stands despite Etihad's decision not to renew existing deals held by tenant clubs including St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs. North had no deal.

Collingwood chief executive Gary Pert said last night that his club was only in the second year of the deal for the two contracted home games scheduled each season at the Docklands.

No change at all, Collingwood play 2 home games at Docklands every year dating back to 2010 (except COVID).

Pies talking about trying to move them to the Gold Coast, much better for us to play StK and WC up on the Gold Coast compared to at Marvel.

 

[kranky al]

Not really focusing on the Pies here, more that the Dogs might have stitched themselves up by their need for cash. The Pies are the obvious choice for any club wanting to draw a big crowd, it's a minor advantage you occasionally get but it's hard to argue against when the other club is the one who wants it.


I agree, I think we're in a stalemate about whether Geelong playing at the MCG is neutral or away but Melbourne vs Freo (or whoever) in Alice Springs is 100% a neutral game and so a relative advantage to Freo (or whoever) compared to playing in Melbourne, be it the MCG or Docklands.

That is why consistently note that of all the Melbourne based teams, Collingwood are in best position as we don't need the $$.

It really should be obvious that if a club ain't playing a home ground at their home ground that any home ground advantage they enjoy with respect to their opponents is reduced.

But the VICBias wowsers think otherwise, you get to keep your home ground advantage if you are selling it and travel magically doesn't have any impact.


Geelong experience a reduced disadvantage as they themselves have built familiarity and enjoy strong crowd support in their 5+ games at the G.

Yeah I mean we’ve won once in geelong in the last 25 years and you never play there

At the beginning of the season, if we play at Geelong all the fans not that game up as a loss before the season even starts.

And on top of that you get to play the finals at the MCG

 

[Carringbush2010]

Why should it be up to him? Any offering that’s provided you’ll shut down anyway.

Because the footy landscape is always gonna be vic centric, any suggestion anyone puts up won't change that, unless the market shifts in another direction which doesn't look likely.

 

[Carringbush2010]

No.

Enjoy then or don't.

Footy's gonna stay vic centric, nothin you, me or anyone can do about it.

Start breedin like rabbits, grow a footy market bigger than vic, then it'll change to your liking.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I definitely would not complain if they were front ended.

 

[doppleganger]

Yeah I mean we’ve won once in geelong in the last 25 years and you never play there

At the beginning of the season, if we play at Geelong all the fans not that game up as a loss before the season even starts.

Yep, the AFL predominantly just schedules Pies v Geel games. 8 of last 10 H&A have been Pies home games.

Unlike WC who enjoy a big advantage at home against the Cats, Geelong are familiar at the G and they also get thousands of Cat fans at the game cheering them on.

And on top of that you get to play the finals at the MCG

All teams get to play finals at the G, the only ground where can have 100k fans watching the contest.

 

[JackOutback]

Enjoy then or don't.

Footy's gonna stay vic centric, nothin you, me or anyone can do about it.

Start breedin like rabbits, grow a footy market bigger than vic, then it'll change to your liking.

Or, look at the changes that have been made in the past 30 years and continue advocating for more in the interest of fairness. Meanwhile, you can continue to advocate for your unfair advantages and then act superior when you win a grand final you probably would have lost on a neutral ground.

 

[kranky al]

Yep, the AFL predominantly just schedules Pies v Geel games. 8 of last 10 H&A have been Pies home games.

So you get gifted a home game every year.

Great argument.


Dropkickgoober own goal #4538

Unlike WC who enjoy a big advantage at home against the Cats, Geelong are familiar at the G and they also get thousands of Cat fans at the game cheering them on.

lol - play them in geelong and see how you go.

80% win at gmbha
60% win at mcg

Droopyglander: tHeRes nO dIffEreNce

All teams get to play finals at the G, the only ground where can have 100k fans watching the contest.

And its a hell of a leg up for mcg clubs - and a hell of a disadvantage to clubs that don’t get mcg time.

 

[demondavey]

You’d think I’d not be happy about Collingwood having a run into finals where they are travelling every other week? I’ve acknowledged they deserve 14-15 MCG home and away games.

 

[kranky al]

Enjoy then or don't.

Footy's gonna stay vic centric, nothin you, me or anyone can do about it.

Start breedin like rabbits, grow a footy market bigger than vic, then it'll change to your liking.

When the Eagles entered the competition, the Victorians made us pay the side that came over to play us’s airfare.

We had to pay our own. They said that was fair.

In 1991 we travelled 3 times in finals despite being the highest ranked team. They said that was fair.

We were forced to play home finals at Waverley and the mcg. They said that was fair.

We’ve listened to entrenched Victorians tell us if we don’t like it - leave - for 30+ years now.

We aren’t quitting.

We aren’t just gonna drop our heads and accept it.

You can FRO.


Every one of those things we got changed. Took time, took effort and perseverence - nothing gets changed if you just give in.


The ox is slow, but the Earth is patient.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Or, look at the changes that have been made in the past 30 years and continue advocating for more in the interest of fairness. Meanwhile, you can continue to advocate for your unfair advantages and then act superior when you win a grand final you probably would have lost on a neutral ground.

Not acting superior at all.

Just pointing out it will always be vic centric, regardless of changes. which you all constantly complain about, but that's all you all do.

Go ahead and continue complaining I couldn't care less.

 

[Carringbush2010]

When the Eagles entered the competition, the Victorians made us pay the side that came over to play us’s airfare.

We had to pay our own. They said that was fair.

In 1991 we travelled 3 times in finals despite being the highest ranked team. They said that was fair.

We were forced to play home finals at Waverley and the mcg. They said that was fair.

We’ve listened to entrenched Victorians tell us if we don’t like it - leave - for 30+ years now.

We aren’t quitting.

We aren’t just gonna drop our heads and accept it.

You can FRO.


Every one of those things we got changed. Took time, took effort and perseverence - nothing gets changed if you just give in.


The ox is slow, but the Earth is patient.

Ok enjoy.

And here's a box of tissues

 

[Carringbush2010]

You’d think I’d not be happy about Collingwood having a run into finals where they are travelling every other week? I’ve acknowledged they deserve 14-15 MCG home and away games.

 

[Freshwater]

When the Eagles entered the competition, the Victorians made us pay the side that came over to play us’s airfare.

We had to pay our own. They said that was fair.

In 1991 we travelled 3 times in finals despite being the highest ranked team. They said that was fair.

We were forced to play home finals at Waverley and the mcg. They said that was fair.

We’ve listened to entrenched Victorians tell us if we don’t like it - leave - for 30+ years now.

We aren’t quitting.

We aren’t just gonna drop our heads and accept it.

You can FRO.


Every one of those things we got changed. Took time, took effort and perseverence - nothing gets changed if you just give in.


The ox is slow, but the Earth is patient.

The VFL/AFL were an unfair competition This was just as apparent for my club through many many seasons. We will look back and say how could a team get this club twice in a season and this club only once, and think how can this be fair?
I watched the Eagles come in as a teenager. I watched them take 4 years to make a grand final and 5 years to win the premiership. Two years later they won another one. Both with our old coach too, and remember hearing him say how much more resourced the Eagles were compared with the Bulldogs at the time. Another decade went by and the Eagles won another one. We actually lost to the Eagles in a semifinal that year, for the difficulties of travel, the opposite is true when hosting a final. We were still waiting to even appear in a Grand Final. For all these difficulties there are obviously more benefits than most clubs have, else you wouldn’t have 4 premiership in your time. We should all strive to make the competition even, the fixture blows my mind how unfair it is, but geography is what it is.

 

[JackOutback]

Ok enjoy.

And here's a box of tissues

What a intellectually bereft response. You keep saying nothing will change, and when you are presented with quantifiable evidence that things can and have changed, you say nothing will change. Do better.

 

[kranky al]

The VFL/AFL were an unfair competition This was just as apparent for my club through many many seasons. We will look back and say how could a team get this club twice in a season and this club only once, and think how can this be fair?
I watched the Eagles come in as a teenager. I watched them take 4 years to make a grand final and 5 years to win the premiership. Two years later they won another one. Both with our old coach too, and remember hearing him say how much more resourced the Eagles were compared with the Bulldogs at the time. Another decade went by and the Eagles won another one. We actually lost to the Eagles in a semifinal that year, for the difficulties of travel, the opposite is true when hosting a final. We were still waiting to even appear in a Grand Final. For all these difficulties there are obviously more benefits than most clubs have, else you wouldn’t have 4 premiership in your time. We should all strive to make the competition even, the fixture blows my mind how unfair it is, but geography is what it is.

There’s nothing you can do about geography.

But you can do things that don’t actively make it worse.

Like preseason for instance - why the FFFFF are interstate clubs flying in preseason?

Why do small vic clubs have to sell home games to the mcg to get anything resembling a number of games there?

West coast were very lucky early on that the restrictions put on us early on recruiting meant we had to draft lots of wa kids from a couple of drafts where luckily for us there was more talent than usual.

If you tried to recruit a team from just a couple of years in just the wafl now you would get nowhere.

look at freo…

We also benefitted from established W.A. VFL players who wanted to come home be a part of it

That gave us a core of elder statesman.

 

[sr36]

The VFL/AFL were an unfair competition This was just as apparent for my club through many many seasons. We will look back and say how could a team get this club twice in a season and this club only once, and think how can this be fair?
I watched the Eagles come in as a teenager. I watched them take 4 years to make a grand final and 5 years to win the premiership. Two years later they won another one. Both with our old coach too, and remember hearing him say how much more resourced the Eagles were compared with the Bulldogs at the time. Another decade went by and the Eagles won another one. We actually lost to the Eagles in a semifinal that year, for the difficulties of travel, the opposite is true when hosting a final. We were still waiting to even appear in a Grand Final. For all these difficulties there are obviously more benefits than most clubs have, else you wouldn’t have 4 premiership in your time. We should all strive to make the competition even, the fixture blows my mind how unfair it is, but geography is what it is.

It'a comical that WCE fans think that they're the underdog with the cards stacked against them. The ratio of clubs in each state has gifted WCE an enormous fan base and all the benefits that brings as well as a significant recruiting advantage. Which has played a big part in them being the equal second most successful club of the AFL era.

 

[Humblebob]

It'a comical that WCE fans think that they're the underdog with the cards stacked against them. The ratio of clubs in each state has gifted WCE an enormous fan base and all the benefits that brings as well as a significant recruiting advantage. Which has played a big part in them being the equal second most successful club of the AFL era.

Dude a couple of comments up sounded like a marginalised Muslim Uyghur, was enough to bring tears to the eyes hearing that tale of persecution.

Listening to years of one team centric local media in their fishbowl has turned some of their brains to mush, makes it harder to sympathise with once you understand they don’t really care about fair for others, just fairer for me.

 

[doppleganger]

So you get gifted a home game every year.
Great argument.
Dropkickgoober own goal #4538

?? Gifted a home game?? You are a complete numpty.

We get just 9 home games at our home ground every year. It would be better for Collingwood, from an advantage perspective for those games to be against teams who rarely play at the G.

But nope, Collingwood's fixture is all about the commercial benefit, much better to get almost 90k v Geelong at the G, that is different to on-field advantage.

Geelong get gifted an away game at the G.

Would be better for Collingwood, from a ground familiarity perspective, to play WC at the MCG and host Geelong at Marvel. But nope we play WC at Marvel where they have ground familiarity advantage over us (a home ground advantage according to the Freo wowser).

lol - play them in geelong and see how you go.
80% win at gmbha
60% win at mcg

Droopyglander: tHeRes nO dIffEreNce

WC play home games against Geelong where they enjoy a strong ground advantage, and away games where they enjoy a strong away ground advantage.

Of the last 10 H&A games between the two it has been - 5 WC home games in WA, 4 Geelong home games at KP and 1 gather round "home.game".to Geelong at AO.

There is no deliberate attempt to send WC to Cat Park all the time.

And by the way, since 2014 the Pies have basically the same win rate away from the G as we do at the G...again easily explained considering majority of our MCG games are neutral against teams who are also familiar with the ground and have massive crowd support (25k+ fans).

 

[doppleganger]

Dude a couple of comments up sounded like a marginalised Muslim Uyghur, was enough to bring tears to the eyes hearing that tale of persecution.

The Muppets even note "there’s nothing you can do about geography" but they think the AFL should give them extra advantages because of geography anyway!

Geography isn't an all AFL problem, it is a WA problem.

If WA wants to enter a team to play in an Australian competition, they will travel further than the other teams, an absolute nonsense to expect the competition to give them.extra home games.

They are re-introducing the Perth Bears in 2027 in the NRL, wonder if the Perth Bear fans will also be WA wowsers like Kranky and complain how it is unfair they travel further than other NRL teams?

Also complain that Manly play so many games in NSW, they should be entitled to the same number of games in WA....to make it fair.

And why the **** is the NRL GF in Sydney all the time... unfair that a Perth Bears supporter can't just get a ferry to the NRL GF.