Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[sr36]

The same NGA's that only applied to vic clubs and excluded SA and WA clubs until pick 40. yeah, what a big disadvantage.


Free agency has been a dud for WA and SA clubs. I am still waiting for Buddy to head home.

The facts are that the Big Vic clubs have dominated premierships tally the last 20 years.

You might want to learn what the rules are and were before discussing them. This is just downright wrong.

 

[go_the_dockers]

You might want to learn what the rules are and were before discussing them. This is just downright wrong.

It was for 5 years. This is why Rankin, Motlop, Edwards, Lombard were all not drafted as NGA's plus a lot more.

 

[sr36]

It was for 5 years. This is why Rankin, Motlop, Edwards, Lombard were all not drafted as NGA's plus a lot more.

It was the same rules for Vic teams. It's why Mack Andrew isn't at Melbourne.

 

[WilloTree]

Brisbane may disagree with most of those being Vic only advantages

94 Father/Sons have gone to Vic clubs
17 to Collingwood
14 to the Bullies
12 to Carlton.. etc

9 Father/Sons to SA
5 to Port
4 to Crows

6 Father/Sons have gone to Queensland
6 to Brisbane
0 to Suns

8 Father/Sons to WA
6 to WC
2 to Freo

6 Father/Sons to NSW
6 to Sydney
0 to GWS

Biggest rort in footy by the length of Flemington. MCG GF the exacta.

 

[go_the_dockers]

It was the same rules for Vic teams. It's why Mack Andrew isn't at Melbourne.

No it wasn't.
Original the NGA was only for Vic sides.
Then SA and WA sides complained, but they only got access from pick 40.

Then the Vic advantages were slowly reduced, but they still have the players on their list while WA and SA clubs got **** all as normal.

NGA tweak to give SA, WA clubs greater indigenous access

Four clubs could get their wish for more access to indigenous players in metropolitan areas under Academy rules

www.afl.com.au

For instance, using last year's draft as an example, Izak Rankine, who was pick No.3 from West Adelaide, and Ian 'Bobby' Hill, who was pick 23 from Perth, would not have qualified because the indigenous pair were selected before pick 40.

 

[sr36]

No it wasn't.
Original the NGA was only for Vic sides.
Then SA and WA sides complained, but they only got access from pick 40.

Then the Vic advantages were slowly reduced, but they still have the players on their list while WA and SA clubs got **** all as normal.

NGA tweak to give SA, WA clubs greater indigenous access

Four clubs could get their wish for more access to indigenous players in metropolitan areas under Academy rules

www.afl.com.au

For instance, using last year's draft as an example, Izak Rankine, who was pick No.3 from West Adelaide, and Ian 'Bobby' Hill, who was pick 23 from Perth, would not have qualified because the indigenous pair were selected before pick 40.

You're confused. All the non-Northern teams got their NGAs at the same time. Freo was seen as being one of the early beneficiaries when they matched a top 10 bid for Liam Henry.

The no matching before 40 rule came in because there was frustration that some teams got a leg up with free first round selections - Dogs(JUH), North(Tarryn Thomas), Coll(Quaynor) and Freo(Henry) - without actually having genuine academies. The early NGA academies were paper only - lists of kids who qualified - and the clubs hadn't done anything of note to help devleop the players - they just got lucky with highly rated qualifying kids in their zone. The no matching until 40 was across the board for all NGAs - Vic and Non-Vic. And last year it changed back to matching at any point for all NGA academies.

The SA and WA complaints have been about a different thing. They haven't been about equity. They've been an attempt to get an advantage by allocating the whole of those states as NGA zones for the teams of that state. The original design was for the NGA zones to be of similar size of qualifying kids with similar potential to produce players. The complaints have worked and WA and SA now have much better NGA zones with heaps more potential than the Vic teams have. WA teams in particular will do very well out of them. They're now a definite and significant advantage.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

That's only 3 of our current best 23.

Bowes, Martin and Stengle were actively booted out of their previous clubs, and the latter two had risks attached due to injury and 'lifestyle choices'.

Everyone else from the QF was talent we drafted ourselves - and as I said, a large part of which were from late picks, rookies, or unconventional pathways.

Stengle passes out in an Adelaide nightclub and the Vic media would be having a field day throwing barbs at the club.
Stengle does it in Geelong, nothing to see here.

 

[go_the_dockers]

You're confused. All the non-Northern teams got their NGAs at the same time. Freo was seen as being one of the early beneficiaries when they matched a top 10 bid for Liam Henry.

The no matching before 40 rule came in because there was frustration that some teams got a leg up with free first round selections - Dogs(JUH), North(Tarryn Thomas), Coll(Quaynor) and Freo(Henry) - without actually having genuine academies. The early NGA academies were paper only - lists of kids who qualified - and the clubs hadn't done anything of note to help devleop the players - they just got lucky with highly rated qualifying kids in their zone. The no matching until 40 was across the board for all NGAs - Vic and Non-Vic. And last year it changed back to matching at any point for all NGA academies.

The SA and WA complaints have been about a different thing. They haven't been about equity. They've been an attempt to get an advantage by allocating the whole of those states as NGA zones for the teams of that state. The original design was for the NGA zones to be of similar size of qualifying kids with similar potential to produce players. The complaints have worked and WA and SA now have much better NGA zones with heaps more potential than the Vic teams have. WA teams in particular will do very well out of them. They're now a definite and significant advantage.

Agree to disagree.

Vic clubs definitely got an advantage early. We may get an advantage of now if academies stay 5 plus years.

 

[sr36]

Agree to disagree.

Vic clubs definitely got an advantage early. We may get an advantage of now if academies stay 5 plus years.

Yeah but your disagreement is built on a series of factual errors.

Vic clubs didn't get an advantage early.

Fristly, the whole NGA thing is a load of crap to begin with to try to shut up 14 teams about the very clear advantage that (if you want the Vic/Non-Vic binary) was going to the Non-Vic teams in terms of academies.

And secondly the NGA academies were designed to be as even as possible for the 14 other teams. They are now a very clear and distinct advantage to the WA teams, followed by the SA teams and then you'll have a perennial shit fight amongst the Vic teams for academy borders to be altered within Victoria for equity reasons.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Stengle passes out in an Adelaide nightclub and the Vic media would be having a field day throwing barbs at the club.
Stengle does it in Geelong, nothing to see here.

Wasn't Stengle plastered all over the media because he took a photo of himself with a bag, or actively taking drugs?

I'm sure he had the odd hushed-up incident in Adelaide before he was dumb enough to openly post about it publicly.

 

[Pistol Night]

Wasn't Stengle plastered all over the media because he took a photo of himself with a bag, or actively taking drugs?

I'm sure he had the odd hushed-up incident in Adelaide before he was dumb enough to openly post about it publicly.

campaigners that get caught with photos with bags should receive a lifetime ban for being dumb ****s . Its like the adrenaline rush of getting busted is driving them sometimes

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Wasn't Stengle plastered all over the media because he took a photo of himself with a bag, or actively taking drugs?

I'm sure he had the odd hushed-up incident in Adelaide before he was dumb enough to openly post about it publicly.

You cant be sure at all, but it certainly was when at Geelong, thats undeniable.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

campaigners that get caught with photos with bags should receive a lifetime ban for being dumb ****s . Its like the adrenaline rush of getting busted is driving them sometimes

I thought he got done for DUI and subsequently possession when caught in a taxi, receiving 4 weeks from the AFL.

Passes out in a Geelong nightclub, and despite his priors, nothing to see here.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Yeah but your disagreement is built on a series of factual errors.

Vic clubs didn't get an advantage early.

Fristly, the whole NGA thing is a load of crap to begin with to try to shut up 14 teams about the very clear advantage that (if you want the Vic/Non-Vic binary) was going to the Non-Vic teams in terms of academies.

And secondly the NGA academies were designed to be as even as possible for the 14 other teams. They are now a very clear and distinct advantage to the WA teams, followed by the SA teams and then you'll have a perennial shit fight amongst the Vic teams for academy borders to be altered within Victoria for equity reasons.

I agree, your disagreement is built on a series of factual errors.

Vic clubs got the NGA 12 months before the WA and SA clubs.

 

[Pistol Night]

I thought he got done for DUI and subsequently possession when caught in a taxi, receiving 4 weeks from the AFL.

Passes out in a Geelong nightclub, and despite his priors, nothing to see here.

Moral of the story - Dont try and go home when you've had enough, keep drinking until you're unconscious

 

[thistimeforsure]

The national draft, mid-season draft, rookie draft, pre-season pick ups, free agency are all opportunities to build a list.

Those that nail it, move up to better things. Those that fail, remain uncompetitive.

Blame your club, not the system.

Go on then , give us a list of all the draft picks the Pies have nailed lately

 

[Pistol Night]

Go on then , give us a list of all the draft picks the Pies have nailed lately

Nick Daicos

 

[thistimeforsure]

Nick Daicos

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Moral of the story - Dont try and go home when you've had enough, keep drinking until you're unconscious

The farcical part is, Stengle was made to do an alcohol consumption course as part of his AFL imposed 4wk ban, 2 more weeks than Crouch got as Stengle was a repeat offender I might add, yet when he had to be treated by paramedics having passed out in a nightclub, well, his priors were suddenly forgotten about.

 

[MisterMarcus]

You cant be sure at all, but it certainly was when at Geelong, thats undeniable.

Pretty sure when Adelaide sacked him, there were comments about "the last straw" and "previous incidents".

So it's a pretty safe guess he had stuff that was covered up in Adelaide.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Pretty sure when Adelaide sacked him, there were comments about "the last straw" and "previous incidents".

So it's a pretty safe guess he had stuff that was covered up in Adelaide.

Yeah, DUI, his failure to attend court as required and the possession that was the last straw, all reported on and sanctioned by the AFL, getting 4wks for conduct unbecoming as a repeat offender.

Yet when he reoffended at Geelong...

 

[Carringbush2010]

they buried the Bailey Smith stuff pretty quick

Who's they

fans of Vic clubs on BF will swear black and blue they wouldnt want another Vic club to have success, they're not controlling the narrative and so while the sentiment is reasonable, the reality from those pulling the strings is vastly different

Correct, the ones controlling the narrative are controlling for their own self interest. It's not a collective conspiracy wanting to punch down on non vic, which seems to be the theory around here.

Eddie's interest is likely self, one of those interests would be for Collingwood, not the sole one.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Yeah it definitely starts giving me less sympathy for clubs who have a bounty of top picks and still struggle, whereas other clubs can find a random bloke outside the system at pick 50 and turn them into a quality player

Geelong and Collingwood are good at this

 

[MisterMarcus]

Yeah, DUI, his failure to attend court as required and the possession that was the last straw, all reported on and sanctioned by the AFL, getting 4wks for conduct unbecoming as a repeat offender.

Yet when he reoffended at Geelong...

If he'd been keeping relatively straight and sober then had one big lapse that knocked him about badly

Or if he had some personal circumstances in his life that led to his lapse

Or the fact he wasn't DUI-ing and hadn't been dumb enough to openly pose with whatever he was taking and send it out publicly.


All three of those are reasons I can immediately think of as to why the media and AFL didn't make as big as fuss than at Adelaide.

And all three are far more believable and understandable than "VicBias" claims or "New Hocking Order" conspiracies....

 

[VinnieB]

Go on then , give us a list of all the draft picks the Pies have nailed lately

We have traded our 1st picks for experienced players. Many thought we were crazy to do so.
However, apart from one year, we haven't had the opportunity to secure a high draft pick, unlike many clubs, including Fremantle. Where would you be without Serong and Brayshaw? Now, you are trading high picks for guys like Bolton.

Look at Hawthorn, Geelong.

But, your question reinforces the argument. There are numerous ways to build a list. The opportunity is there. The difference is that the good clubs make the most of a strategy, while the poor clubs fail.