Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict

[CM86]

Hamas and its puppeteers in Tehran have made it abundantly clear what they will do if they get a chance to meaningfully rebuild and regroup.

Any sensible country would be as determined as Tel Aviv is to make damned sure they never get that chance.

There should always be a limit.
Or you'll end up no better than the evil terrorist organisation you're trying to destroy.

There needs to be a difference between justifiable and excusable.

 

[do_i_look_worried_go_ahe]

Israel is facing multiple proxies backed by those foul mullahs in Tehran who don't give a poo about human rights. The Allies in WWII also had to face the IJA who didn't give a * about civilians and did things that made the Nazis blink.

 

[CM86]

Israel is facing multiple proxies backed by those foul mullahs in Tehran who don't give a poo about human rights. The Allies in WWII also had to face the IJA who didn't give a * about civilians and did things that made the Nazis blink.

I'm not sure if that's a reply to me.

Are you using "mullahs" as a slur?

 

[do_i_look_worried_go_ahe]

My opinion is that you are dehumanising the Palestinian people by treating the region's Arab opponents of secular democracy and rights for all peoples as their legitimate representatives. Don't be the O'Brian to that reactionary culture. Be a Winston Smith.

 

[CM86]

My opinion is that you are dehumanising the Palestinian people by treating the region's Arab opponents of secular democracy and rights for all peoples as their legitimate representatives. Don't be the O'Brian to that reactionary culture. Be a Winston Smith.

I've not done that.
That's why I quoted you to show examples of what I was suggesting you were doing.

But it's been deleted by moderation, so I'll leave it there.

 

[owen87]

Yes. Get the hostages released and get rid of Hamas. They've said this all along and it matches their actions.

The plan. Not a catch-phrase.

Option C - The option that will yield positive, long-term strategic outcomes for Israel, and is an executable option. It requires determination from the political echelon in the face of international pressure, with an emphasis on harnessing the support of the United States and additional pro-Israeli countries for the endeavor.

If you wanted to do this you might;

1. Destroy a lot of civilian infrastructure.
2. Herd population to Egyptian border.
3. Bomb population on Egyptian border until Egypt relents and opens the gates.

You have to work so incredibly hard to justify Israel's actions when you claim it's only about rescuing hostages, and only about removing Hamas.

You don't have to work hard at all however the match their consistent, continued and ongoing actions with the intent to displace the entire civilian population of Gaza. The document tells you it, there's repeated statements from members of Government and IDF higher ups (many captured in the ICJ document) that tell you it, and all of it fits exactly their actions in Gaza.

 

[owen87]

Any sensible country would be as determined as Tel Aviv is to make damned sure they never get that chance.

I doubt many sensible countries would be as determined as Tel Aviv to attempt a genocide.

 

[jason_recliner]

The plan. Not a catch-phrase.




If you wanted to do this you might;

1. Destroy a lot of civilian infrastructure.
2. Herd population to Egyptian border.
3. Bomb population on Egyptian border until Egypt relents and opens the gates.

You have to work so incredibly hard to justify Israel's actions when you claim it's only about rescuing hostages, and only about removing Hamas.

You don't have to work hard at all however the match their consistent, continued and ongoing actions with the intent to displace the entire civilian population of Gaza. The document tells you it, there's repeated statements from members of Government and IDF higher ups (many captured in the ICJ document) that tell you it, and all of it fits exactly their actions in Gaza.

If this is real it's ####ing disgraceful and disgusting, even by Israeli standards.

 

[owen87]

If this is real it's ####ing disgraceful and disgusting, even by Israeli standards.

The document itself is real. The government claim it was a concept paper.

An Israeli ministry, in a 'concept paper,' proposes transferring Gaza civilians to Egypt's Sinai

Israel’s Intelligence Ministry has drafted a wartime proposal to transfer the Gaza Strip’s 2.3 million people to Egypt’s Sinai peninsula.

apnews.com

Israel acknowledged Monday that one of its ministries drafted a wartime proposal to transfer the Gaza Strip’s 2.3 million people to Egypt’s Sinai peninsula, drawing condemnation from the Palestinians and worsening tensions with Cairo.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office played down the report compiled by the Intelligence Ministry as a hypothetical exercise — a “concept paper.”

 

[do_i_look_worried_go_ahe]

I doubt many sensible countries would be as determined as Tel Aviv to attempt a genocide.

As in Vietnam, the guerrillas don't wear uniforms. That was a big problem for D.C. and Saigon and it is the problem for Tel Aviv.

 

[owen87]

As in Vietnam, the guerrillas don't wear uniforms. That was a big problem for D.C. and Saigon and it is the problem for Tel Aviv.

Once again, collective punishment is a war crime.

 

[do_i_look_worried_go_ahe]

The bombing of Germany and Japan was legal at the time and i do not apply the post war Geneva cons ex post facto.

I remember 11 innocent athletes, a helpless man is a wheelchair and teenage girls in a night club - oh and at least 500 Palestinians executed by their own leaders for "collaboration" (i.e. thinking "heroic resistance to colonialism, apartheid etc" is a dead end.

It not 'defeatism' when you have actually been defeated.

Palestinian militias are like the LTTE or the Polisario Front -- a bunch of fascists who make the worst of the Israeli far right seem like a romantic boat ride.

 

[owen87]

The bombing of Germany and Japan was legal at the time and i do not apply the post war Geneva cons ex post facto.

I remember 11 innocent athletes, a helpless man is a wheelchair and teenage girls in a night club - oh and at least 500 Palestinians executed by their own leaders for "collaboration" (i.e. thinking "heroic resistance to colonialism, apartheid etc" is a dead end.

It not 'defeatism' when you have actually been defeated.

Palestinian militias are like the LTTE or the Polisario Front -- a bunch of fascists who make the worst of the Israeli far right seem like a romantic boat ride.

Collective Punishment is a war crime right now. As is Genocide.

No retrospective application required.

 

[do_i_look_worried_go_ahe]

Problem is that - as with Resolution 242, you and other Palestinian partisans are selectively applying and interprating Geneva which only applies to states. Hamas and the PLO are non-state terrorist organisations.

You are a far-leftist, "Owen". You are your own worst enemy.

Neither Gaza or the WB belong to any state, certainly not the fantasy self-styled "State of Palestine" proclaimed and sustained by the terrorist leader Arafat and Abbas who have both proved Harold MacMillian's purported maxim "One man, one vote, once".

 

[FIGJAM]

The government claim it was a concept paper.

Some of the ideas in it are idiotic and naïve, so I'd take them on their word there.

 

[do_i_look_worried_go_ahe]

The USA still has a detailed plan for invading Canada.

But, hey: 54 40 or fight!

 

[owen87]

The USA still has a detailed plan for invading Canada.

But, hey: 54 40 or fight!

And if the USA was actually bombing and sending troops in to Canada we'd go 'huh, maybe it's deliberate after all'.

 

[owen87]

Some of the ideas in it are idiotic and naïve, so I'd take them on their word there.

Again though, their actions make a whole lot of sense if 'displace the population of Gaza' is the aim.

If I was planning on getting some hostages back, dropping thousands upon thousands of bombs on the area the hostages are likely to be held is probably not how I'd go about it.

 

[owen87]

You are a far-leftist, "Owen".

Gralin

Look at what I've become.

 

[Gralin]

Gralin

Look at what I've become.

Welcome to the club

 

[do_i_look_worried_go_ahe]

Sorry i tke it back and apologise. I'm stressed and upset offline

 

[FIGJAM]

Again though, their actions make a whole lot of sense if 'displace the population of Gaza' is the aim.

To where?????

One of the glaring issues with the document in question, is the ability to dump the whole of Gaza into Egypt. The thing about Egypt fortifying their border further to the well-documented current extreme levels, is that the likes of you think they're doing that because they want to teach the dirty Israelis a lesson in solidarity with their Arab brothers, by "preventing genocide".

But the reality is that it's because the amount of terrorist attacks on the Sinai peninsula are off the chain horrible and Gaza has been the conduit for pretty much all of them!

You can argue until you're blue in the face about who exactly Hamas (or Isis or Brotherhood)/Gazans/Palestinians are and what differentiates them, but the fact remains that this tiny region is a ******* tinderbox of terrorism.

I don't want Egypt forced into a decision of 'opening up' the Sinai into a "tent city" that would make the Fyre Festival look luxurious, but I imagine they'll have an infinitely fiercer resistance to the rest of Australia's states opening up to Victoria in April 2020.

Then you think about one of the other claims in the "concept paper" that was obviously written by a moron, or Ben Gvir's work experience intern, which states "...the government requires intensive action to harness the United States and other countries to support this goal.". At which point did this brainiac think that the US, or 'the West' (including us) would have unlimited support? All of "the West" have given conditional support. And it has wained the more it has dragged on, because only an idiot would think that all that is required is just general support for Israel's actions. Thus, they could have just nuked Gaza with western support according to this "official paper". FMD!!

 

[owen87]

To where?????

One of the glaring issues with the document in question, is the ability to dump the whole of Gaza into Egypt. The thing about Egypt fortifying their border further to the well-documented current extreme levels, is that the likes of you think they're doing that because they want to teach the dirty Israelis a lesson in solidarity with their Arab brothers, by "preventing genocide".

But the reality is that it's because the amount of terrorist attacks on the Sinai peninsula are off the chain horrible and Gaza has been the conduit for pretty much all of them!

You can argue until you're blue in the face about who exactly Hamas (or Isis or Brotherhood)/Gazans/Palestinians are and what differentiates them, but the fact remains that this tiny region is a ******* tinderbox of terrorism.

I don't want Egypt forced into a decision of 'opening up' the Sinai into a "tent city" that would make the Fyre Festival look luxurious, but I imagine they'll have an infinitely fiercer resistance to the rest of Australia's states opening up to Victoria in April 2020.

Then you think about one of the other claims in the "concept paper" that was obviously written by a moron, or Ben Gvir's work experience intern, which states "...the government requires intensive action to harness the United States and other countries to support this goal.". At which point did this brainiac think that the US, or 'the West' (including us) would have unlimited support? All of "the West" have given conditional support. And it has wained the more it has dragged on, because only an idiot would think that all that is required is just general support for Israel's actions. Thus, they could have just nuked Gaza with western support according to this "official paper". FMD!!

Again, you're working really hard to try to downplay this and handwave it away. No one has said the document is the precise and exact plan in detail, but the aim is certainly one that's congruent with Israels actions.

They've literally displaced the majority of the ~ 2.2m Palestinians in Gaza. No one has actually stopped them. For conditional support they've got away with a hell of a lot of genocidal-esque actions without really losing much of it. The US has been unable to actually stop them because Israel is so used to just doing whatever they want while the US protects them from any repercussions of it. It's so bad the US is actually having to build a port so that aid can be shipped in to stop Israel starving tens of thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of Palestinians to death because so little aid is getting through their blockade.

They're literally been able to enact a plausible genocide with the entire world watching without really losing much support. So how conditional is it really if you can run so close to the line of genocide before any of your allies start to say 'look, this isn't great, we might maybe consider not supporting you anymore soon'.

I suspect any region would be a tinderbox of terrorism if the population of that region had lived under military occupation for nigh on 75 years now. It's almost like what Israel has been doing for decades hasn't worked all that well.

Of course, you'll continue to ignore any and all context and lay the entire blame at the feet of the Palestinian civilians being slaughtered.

Yes, yes we know what your reply will be. Day something something of Hamas committing war crimes because of the hostages they're holding. We've already all agreed that's unacceptable. It's just some people seem to find it really difficult to also recognise and condemn the war crimes Israel is committing on a daily basis.

If Hamas was doing what Israel was doing, you'd be up in arms about how abhorrent it is.

 

[FIGJAM]

They're literally been able to enact a plausible genocide with the entire world watching without really losing much support.

They haven't lost much support??

Chalk: After October 7 the world mourned for Israel (save for a relative few in the Arab world and/or extremists who celebrated).

Cheese: Fast forward to March 21 and Israel are widely regarded as pariahs. The US and most western countries are telling them to back up and show some mercy.

 

[owen87]

The US and most western countries are telling them to back up and show some mercy.

So yes, as I said;

They're literally been able to enact a plausible genocide with the entire world watching without really losing much support. So how conditional is it really if you can run so close to the line of genocide before any of your allies start to say 'look, this isn't great, we might maybe consider not supporting you anymore soon'.

Is it that you genuinely don't believe Israel is committing war crimes?

You do believe they are, but believe they're justified?

I find it bizarre that someone seemingly intelligent (a number of the people that cheer Israel on are clearly... not) is finding it so difficult to understand why people are so deeply opposed to what Israel is doing.