Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict

[Kurve]

Of course there are tunnels. Most cities have tunnels.

Ghazi admitted they built them for their military to safely move in and out of. While they might not be the multi floored five star digs Israel tried to promote them as, they are there.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Ghazi admitted they built them for their military to safely move in and out of. While they might not be the multi floored five star digs Israel tried to promote them as, they are there.

When Israel have already blown up your air and sea ports, wouldn't tunnels be a logical choice?

 

[Kurve]

When Israel have already blown up you air and sea ports, wouldn't tunnels be a logical choice?

Yes, for supplies on the black market and weapons etc. Egypt has smashed in, filled or flooded approximately 1,600 of them over the years.

There's probably even one they haven't found yet running under Israel from Jordan in to Gaza.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Yes, for supplies on the black market and weapons etc. Egypt has smashed in, filled or flooded approximately 1,600 of them over the years.

There's probably even one they haven't found yet running under Israel from Jordan in to Gaza.

The KFC smugglers of Gaza

People are paying a fortune to have fast-food chicken brought in from Egypt in underground tunnels. But local food-stall owners aren't happy about it

www.theguardian.com

 

[owen87]

Israel built a tunnel, Hamas added on to it. That's pretty basic and why wouldn't they?

If I wanted to hide from Israel as a civilian, that's where where I'd want to be, under the ground. If I was a fighter, I'd be up top.

Ghazi Horror Head Hamad actually said they built the tunnels for safety reasons for their military wing on Egyptian TV.

Didn't disagree with any of this.

It's just they do this:

I do believe the IDF have used a lot of creative license

Which you seem to agree with:

Not quite what it was portrayed as but they're still there Ghost.

 

[Zidane98]

Hamas has rejected a 6 week ceasefire, swap of 800 Palestinian prisoners in exchange for 40 hostages:

 

[Zidane98]

Guess Hamas have no intentions of respecting the UN security council resolution for an immediate ceasefire / unconditional release of all hostages.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Guess Hamas have no intentions of respecting the UN security council resolution for an immediate ceasefire / unconditional release of all hostages.

We don't have to guess as we can read the article. Israel has not agreed to a ceasefire.

 

[Zidane98]

We don't have to guess as we can read the article. Israel has not agreed to a ceasefire.

View attachment 1940802

Israel has agreed to a 6 week ceasefire, return of 7-800 prisoners (numbers differ according to source). Some of the prisoners being released are guilty of murder. This in in exchange for 40 hostages to be returned.


Hamas' position is well known - return of all prisoners - even the ones caught during the Oct 7 terror attack and a guarantee it remains in power in the Gaza strip even though Fatah recently lambasted it publicly for its Oct 7 terror attack.


They effectively want complete immunity from Oct 7 and an absolute guarantee of power to stop attacking Israel.


That's a completely unrealistic demand.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Israel has agreed to a 6 week ceasefire, return of 7-800 prisoners (numbers differ according to source). Some of the prisoners being released are guilty of murder. This in in exchange for 40 hostages to be returned.


Hamas' position is well known - return of all prisoners - even the ones caught during the Oct 7 terror attack and a guarantee it remains in power in the Gaza strip even though Fatah recently lambasted it publicly for its Oct 7 terror attack.


They effectively want complete immunity from Oct 7 and an absolute guarantee of power to stop attacking Israel.


That's a completely unrealistic demand.

With Israel committing genocide, the removal of Netanyahu government should be on the list of demands.

 

[Zidane98]

With Israel committing genocide, the removal of Netanyahu government should be on the list of demands.

"But what about Israel"


Israel hasn't been found to be committing genocide by anyone atm despite your allegations.


I guess the difference is Israel actually turns up in court where Hamas wants complete immunity from its terror attacks.

 

[owen87]

From the article;

Hamas demands include "a total cease-fire that will include the withdrawal of all Israeli forces from Gaza and the return of the uprooted to their homes." It added that, if these conditions for a cease-fire were fulfilled, it would be prepared to immediately enter a process of "prisoner exchanges that would lead to the release of hostages and prisoners on both sides."

So Hamas are prepared to release all hostages, if the Israeli forces leave Gaza so the ~ 2m Gazans can return to their (mostly now nonexistent) homes.

We can read that in two ways it seems:

Hamas are being unreasonable expecting Israel to just withdraw from Gaza after securing it.

Israel are being unreasonable expecting Hamas to surrender while they still have forces in Gaza after invading it.

 

[owen87]

Israel hasn't been found to be committing genocide by anyone atm despite your allegations.

That's not the compelling argument you hope it might be.

Has any genocide been found to be a genocide during the genocide itself, or are they pretty much all post-dated?

Do we need the ICJ to determine our moral compass before people can be like 'oh yeah that massive displacement and slaughter of civilians was pretty bad, I should have said something'?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

"But what about Israel"


Israel hasn't been found to be committing genocide by anyone atm despite your allegations.


I guess the difference is Israel actually turns up in court where Hamas wants complete immunity from its terror attacks.

There's also the collective punishment, forced displacement, apartheid and West Bank settler terrorism etc.

Do you not condemn Israel for these things?

 

[jason_recliner]

Perhaps they don't have 40 hostages. Or 40 would be pretty much all of them and they'll lose any remaining power.

 

[Zidane98]

There's also the collective punishment, forced displacement, apartheid and West Bank settler terrorism etc.

Do you not condemn Israel for these things?

Absolutely, always have.


I would expect a war crimes commission to be setup post war governed by the UN just for this conflict.


Unlike yourself with Hamas I wouldn't expect Israel to be immune from legal recourse for their actions.

 

[Zidane98]

From the article;



So Hamas are prepared to release all hostages, if the Israeli forces leave Gaza so the ~ 2m Gazans can return to their (mostly now nonexistent) homes.

We can read that in two ways it seems:

Hamas are being unreasonable expecting Israel to just withdraw from Gaza after securing it.

Israel are being unreasonable expecting Hamas to surrender while they still have forces in Gaza after invading it.

Israel's deal of 7-800 prisoners for 40 hostages and a 6 week ceasefire seems pretty reasonable to me.


Hamas wanting all Palestinian prisoners released, guarantee of power in Gaza seems absolutely unrealistic to me. Maybe you think that's a reasonable demand, fair enough.

Fatah recently spoke out against Hamas.

 

[jason_recliner]

Information is confusing.

KEY FACTS​

Israel will reportedly release between 700 and 800 Palestinian prisoners as part of the deal, around 100 of whom are serving life sentences for killing Israelis.

In exchange for the prisoners, Hamas will reportedly release 40 of the Israeli hostages being held in Gaza.

The breakthrough, which has not been officially announced or confirmed by either party, came after CIA Director Bill Burns suggested a compromise for the number of prisoners to be swapped for each Israeli hostage at negotiations in Doha, Qatar, according to CNN, citing reporting from its analyst Barak Ravid that has been confirmed by an unnamed diplomatic source.

The exchange will “definitely include some” of the American hostages still held in Gaza, Ravid said, explaining that the agreement will include the release of men over the age of 50.
Hamas has yet to agree to the proposal and could take up to three days to respond, according to Ravid, who said it “takes a long time” communicating details from negotiators in Doha to decision maker Yahya Sinwar, Hamas’ leader, who is “in a bunker some 100 feet under the ground” somewhere in Gaza.
Should Hamas agree, CNN said the exchange is likely to have “multiple phases,” with Hamas suggesting the release of women, elderly, sick and wounded hostages first.

What To Know About The Latest Israel-Hamas Hostage Deal

Israel will reportedly release as many as 800 Palestinian prisoners in exchange for hostages, around 100 of whom are serving life sentences for killing Israelis.

www.forbes.com

Been a mad couple of days at work but I've had a bit of time to think this through. The geotechnical aspects of a hardened structure 30+m underground are substantial and to do it properly requires signifcant investigations. Then there's the energy and water required to construct anything useful 30+m underground. The tunnels we've seen so far are small with minimal-to-basic services and don't look capable of supporting rockets much larger than something launched off the back of a Hilux.

To complete the bunker project undetected in the most heavily surveilled State in the world would be a monumental achievement. I highly doubt such a bunker exists.

Very well-worded release from Fatah, BTW.

 

[jason_recliner]

Absolutely, always have.


I would expect a war crimes commission to be setup post war governed by the UN just for this conflict.


Unlike yourself with Hamas I wouldn't expect Israel to be immune from legal recourse for their actions.

Israel is likely to ignore any such hearings if history is anything to go on :-(

 

[Kurve]

Been a mad couple of days at work but I've had a bit of time to think this through. The geotechnical aspects of a hardened structure 30+m underground are substantial and to do it properly requires signifcant investigations. Then there's the energy and water required to construct anything useful 30+m underground. The tunnels we've seen so far are small with minimal-to-basic services and don't look capable of supporting rockets much larger than something launched off the back of a Hilux.

To complete the bunker project undetected in the most heavily surveilled State in the world would be a monumental achievement. I highly doubt such a bunker exists.

Very well-worded release from Fatah, BTW.

IMO Israel has always known they were there but once they go underground, they're out of sight so they'd likely have little knowledge of just how big they are.

 

[owen87]

Israel's deal of 7-800 prisoners for 40 hostages and a 6 week ceasefire seems pretty reasonable to me.

Sounds good in theory, until you realise that Israel would still be occupying Gaza. Not all that reasonable.

'oh yeah we'll have a ceasefire but we're not leaving, soz'

Hamas wanting all Palestinian prisoners released, guarantee of power in Gaza seems absolutely unrealistic to me. Maybe you think that's a reasonable demand, fair enough.

Of course you'd do this.

Fatah recently spoke out against Hamas.

Hamas aren't the good guys. However, neither are Israel.

 

[owen87]

Unlike yourself with Hamas I wouldn't expect Israel to be immune from legal recourse for their actions.

Sorry did I miss the part where Ghost Patrol said Hamas militants shouldn't be held responsible for their actions?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Absolutely, always have.


I would expect a war crimes commission to be setup post war governed by the UN just for this conflict.


Unlike yourself with Hamas I wouldn't expect Israel to be immune from legal recourse for their actions.

I must have missed the court case that ruled that Israel could started bombing Gaza because Hamas.

 

[jason_recliner]

IMO Israel has always known they were there but once they go underground, they're out of sight so they'd likely have little knowledge of just how big they are.

They should have a very good idea of a bunker being built 30m underground from the scale of aboveground works, resource inputs, and communications required to support construction.

 

[Zidane98]

Sorry did I miss the part where Ghost Patrol said Hamas militants shouldn't be held responsible for their actions?

Of course you'd go down this path. Not surprising. You're a better poster than this.