Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict

[Zidane98]

I must have missed the court case that ruled that Israel could started bombing Gaza because Hamas.

Laughable.

 

[Kurve]

They should have a very good idea of a bunker being built 30m underground from the scale of aboveground works, resource inputs, and communications required to support construction.

If Hamas wasn't causing them too many problems aside from the rockets Iron Dome intercepts, what were they going to do about it?

 

[owen87]

Of course you'd go down this path. Not surprising. You're a better poster than this.

You literally said he doesn't expect Hamas to be held responsible for what they did. Your actual words, not made up ones.

It would be the first I've seen of him expressing that sentiment if so.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Laughable.

Why? You keep going on about legal recourse, but you seem to want Netanyahu to be judge, jury and executioner.

 

[jason_recliner]

If Hamas wasn't causing them too many problems aside from the rockets Iron Dome intercepts, what were they going to do about it?

I meant they should absolutely know where such a bunker is, if it exists.

 

[Zidane98]

See

Sounds good in theory, until you realise that Israel would still be occupying Gaza. Not all that reasonable.


Hamas aren't the good guys. However, neither are Israel.

Says who? Israel want Fatah to govern Gaza post war. If a ceasefire has been declared there is no need for troops in Gaza.

I honestly can't think of a good reason to not accept the 6 week ceasefire / exchange heavily weighted in favour of Hamas then go back to the negotiating table once that is up. It's not a permanent settlement.

 

[Zidane98]

Why? You keep going on about legal recourse, but you seem to want Netanyahu to be judge, jury and executioner.

Absolutely delusional response and telling when you don't want Hamas facing war crimes tribunals and my position consistently is Israel should face a UN war crimes Commission post war.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Absolutely delusional response and telling when you don't want Hamas facing war crimes tribunals and my position consistently is Israel should face a UN war crimes Commission post war.

Israel is the occupying force. If you want legal recourse, shouldn't Hamas have been a police matter, not military?

 

[owen87]

I honestly can't think of a good reason to not accept the 6 week ceasefire / exchange heavily weighted in favour of Hamas then go back to the negotiating table once that is up. It's not a permanent settlement.

Here's one.

Israel is the occupying force.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Israel hasn't complied with International Law for decades. Before Hamas was even a thing!

Shouldn't those court cases happen first, before Hamas faces trial?

It would cause a backlog, sure. But any legal recourse has to be seen to be fair and balanced.

 

[Zidane98]

Here's one.

In your opinion.


Regardless, when the choices are continue hostilities for 6 weeks or choose a cease fire it is obvious what a reasonable minded person would choose - a cease fire. This is not a permanent agreement in any sense.


Hamas don't want a cease fire, it will undermine their attempts to hold on to power. Especially since Fatah have openly called them out for starting the latest war.

 

[owen87]

In your opinion.

The UN and DFAT support that opinion.

Occupied Palestinian Territory

The Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT) faces a protracted political crisis characterized by more than 55 years of Israeli military occupation, internal Palestinian divisions, and recurrent escalations of hostilities.

www.unocha.org

https://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/occupied-palestinian-territories

Certainly no one considers them Israeli territories, and the Gazans haven't invited them to establish a military base there for their forces.

Regardless, when the choices are continue hostilities for 6 weeks or choose a cease fire it is obvious what a reasonable minded person would choose - a cease fire. This is not a permanent agreement in any sense.

After ~ 75 years of hostilities I don't think Hamas would be 6 weeks as overly meaningful and the lack of a permanent agreement for people that have lived under military occupation for decades seems like a pretty key point.

But once again. No one here is arguing Hamas are the good guys so your continual efforts to try to stage manage the appearance of such is strange.

If Israel wanted to end the hostilities and get the hostages back they could simply agree to withdraw their troops from <not their land> right?

It's amazing how little responsibility Israel ever seem to have, despite being a nation state with overwhelming military superiority having effectively erased all civilian infrastructure from Gaza already.

Hamas don't want a cease fire, it will undermine their attempts to hold on to power. Especially since Fatah have openly called them out for starting the latest war.

Israel don't want a cease fire, it will undermine their attempts to hold on to Gaza and the West Bank.

Cuts both ways.

 

[jason_recliner]

The only people who - desperately - want a ceasefire are the poor people of Gaza :-(

 

[Ghost Patrol]

In your opinion.


Regardless, when the choices are continue hostilities for 6 weeks or choose a cease fire it is obvious what a reasonable minded person would choose - a cease fire. This is not a permanent agreement in any sense.


Hamas don't want a cease fire, it will undermine their attempts to hold on to power. Especially since Fatah have openly called them out for starting the latest war.

Why is the Israel Government having a big sook after the US refused to veto the latest ceasefire resolution?

 

[Zidane98]

Why is the Israel Government having a big sook after the US refused to veto the latest ceasefire resolution?

I'm happy they are. At least the US is trying to force a resolution.

Telling on the other side you have Russia vetoing more reasonable resolutions & Iran with their rhetoric of openly declaring their wish for Israel to be destroyed.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I'm happy they are. At least the US is trying to force a resolution.

Telling on the other side you have Russia vetoing more reasonable resolutions & Iran with their rhetoric of openly declaring their wish for Israel to be destroyed.

Do you think Israel's reaction demonstrates that they don't want a ceasefire?

 

[Zidane98]

The UN and DFAT support that opinion.

Occupied Palestinian Territory

The Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT) faces a protracted political crisis characterized by more than 55 years of Israeli military occupation, internal Palestinian divisions, and recurrent escalations of hostilities.

www.unocha.org

https://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/occupied-palestinian-territories

Certainly no one considers them Israeli territories, and the Gazans haven't invited them to establish a military base there for their forces.



After ~ 75 years of hostilities I don't think Hamas would be 6 weeks as overly meaningful and the lack of a permanent agreement for people that have lived under military occupation for decades seems like a pretty key point.

But once again. No one here is arguing Hamas are the good guys so your continual efforts to try to stage manage the appearance of such is strange.

If Israel wanted to end the hostilities and get the hostages back they could simply agree to withdraw their troops from <not their land> right?

It's amazing how little responsibility Israel ever seem to have, despite being a nation state with overwhelming military superiority having effectively erased all civilian infrastructure from Gaza already.



Israel don't want a cease fire, it will undermine their attempts to hold on to Gaza and the West Bank.

Cuts both ways.

Hamas declared war on Israel literally one week after they agreed a deal with Israel via Qatar to open up Israel to Gazan residents for economic & health reasons plus travel to West Bank.

Your argument is laughable. One does not make the deal that was agreed prior to Oct 7 if it wants to occupy the place.

Unless you are a cooker that believes it was all a psyop by Israel as a causus Belli to invade.

Fighting a war and occupation are two different things.

Unless you are claiming Israel entering Gaza would have happened regardless of Oct 7.

 

[owen87]

Hamas declared war on Israel literally one week after they agreed a deal with Israel via Qatar to open up Israel to Gazan residents for economic & health reasons plus travel to West Bank.

Your argument is laughable. One does not make the deal that was agreed prior to Oct 7 if it wants to occupy the place.

Unless you are a cooker that believes it was all a psyop by Israel as a causus Belli to invade.

Fighting a war and occupation are two different things.

Unless you are claiming Israel entering Gaza would have happened regardless of Oct 7.

Lots of mental gymnastics occurring here.

 

[Zidane98]

Do you think Israel's reaction demonstrates that they don't want a ceasefire?

Not at all. Israel clearly do want a ceasefire. Just not one that is unilaterally imposed on them that allows Hamas to hang on to their citizens as hostages and continue its attacks on Israeli civilians.

 

[Zidane98]

Lots of mental gymnastics occurring here.

By yourself, clearly.

Do you believe Israel enters Gaza without Hamas declaring war on it on Oct 7?

Yes or no answer.

 

[owen87]

By yourself, clearly.

Do you believe Israel enters Gaza without Hamas declaring war on it on Oct 7?

Yes or no answer.

On or around October 7th specifically? No.

Ever? I believe they would have eventually, yes.

They've done it multiple times before, they've been illegally seizing land in the West Bank.

The events of October 7th allowed them to drastically escalate what they appear to have been slowly doing anyway.

October 7th also didn't happen in a vacuum no matter how many times you try to pretend otherwise.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Not at all. Israel clearly do want a ceasefire. Just not one that is unilaterally imposed on them that allows Hamas to hang on to their citizens as hostages and continue its attacks on Israeli civilians.

That's weird, because the time that the most hostages were released was during the previous ceasefire.

Israel have actually killed hostages that were released when there was no ceasefire. They were waving white flags.

 

[owen87]

Not at all. Israel clearly do want a ceasefire. Just not one that is unilaterally imposed on them that allows Hamas to hang on to their citizens as hostages and continue its attacks on Israeli civilians.

'Oi, guys that are occupying our land, we'll give your hostages back if you leave'

'Nah, we're not leaving'

Yep. Sounds like it's unilaterally Hamas forcing this situation. Should murder a heap more Palestinians for it.

 

[Zidane98]

'Oi, guys that are occupying our land, we'll give your hostages back if you leave'

'Nah, we're not leaving'

Yep. Sounds like it's unilaterally Hamas forcing this situation. Should murder a heap more Palestinians for it.

Surely even you aren't silly enough to believe that's the deal.

"Let us continue attacking Israel. You can't fight back but we promise to hand back the hostages if you stand down plus we want a guarantee we stay in power after murdering nearly 1000 of your citizens for no reason. We also want anyone arrested returned to us so they never face justice for the crimes they've committed".

Totally realistic deal, you should be a negotiator for Hamas. They'd love you.

 

[owen87]

Let us continue attacking Israel. You can't fight back

I mean... I'd love for you to provide any kind of source where Hamas asked for a ceasefire agreement where it specifically permits them to attack Israel and that Israel agrees not to shoot back or anything.

That would be pretty easy to find right?

Meanwhile, it takes about 3 seconds to locate where Hamas have said if Israel removes the troops from <not their land> then they'll immediately commence returning hostages.