Roast We lost, [insert scapegoat here] is to blame

[Art Vandelay_]

I think it depends heavily on expectation.

Henderson did have a shocker last night, and Kolo has been down for a few weeks.

Guthrie I think gets marked incredibly harshly here for anything less than 25 touches, bone-jarring shirtfronts and 55 metre kicks.

I’m not saying they’re infallible. Just all judged overly harshly from preconceived beliefs.

Not to mention by people who imo pay little attention to the VFL. These are our best options.

Blitz was superhuman on Friday. Was one out far more times than he should have and was brilliant.
Our defence was more miserly before Guthrie and Henderson were added to it.
Henry was a big part of that.

We’ve also tried to play more attackingly than in the first half of the season. GWS and Carlton at home spring to mind as games where we’ve conceded next to nothing but only created a little more ourselves.

It was something mentioned during the week in the lead up to the Tigers by Scott. Not verbatim but the gist of it was that he believed that against the better teams we need to be able to score and not just try and defend stoutly as weight of numbers will kill us in the end. A clear shift in focus imo.

 

[you pick one]

Bews (last couple of weeks)
Kolo
Guthrie
Henderson.

All getting pilloried from various users.
All a part of a defensive group that had to deal with far more entries in our 50 than the Tigers did. We lost by less than a kick however.

If this is how they’re getting questioned then maybe the footy public should demand change at Punt Rd. After all they conceded a score more often than we did comparative to I50’s.

Seemingly this points to Tuohy and Blicavs being superhuman given they were among spud teammates. Yet one has also been chief whipping boy for years.

Yet we’ve conceded the 5th fewest points this season, and depending on points conceded today for GWS and WCE we could have the 3rd fewest.

It doesn’t all add up I’m afraid, very conflicting assessments relative to objective data.

Mate they are getting great support from our mids and even forwards including Hawkins pushing right back deep in defense,if they were more self sufficient back there our on ballers would dominate games and the forwards would be the beneficiaries.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I’m not saying they’re infallible. Just all judged overly harshly from preconceived beliefs.

Not to mention by people who imo pay little attention to the VFL. These are our best options.

We’ve also tried to play more attackingly than in the first half of the season. GWS and Carlton at home spring to mind as games where we’ve conceded next to nothing but only created a little more ourselves.

It was something mentioned during the week in the lead up to the Tigers by Scott. Not verbatim but the gist of it was that he believed that against the better teams we need to be able to score and not just try and defend stoutly as weight of numbers will kill us in the end. A clear shift in focus imo.

I agree on both counts. Enjoyed the tactic on Friday and thought it was great coaching, the VFL thing i do wish we had better but unfortunately we dont.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Mate they are getting great support from our mids and even forwards including Hawkins pushing right back deep in defense,if they were more self sufficient back there our on ballers would dominate games and the forwards would be the beneficiaries.

You’re one of the guys I’m talking about.

This ground we supposedly struggle at btw, The MCG we’ve conceded 100+ on it just the once. The problem in each of games there is scoring.

Which is no surprise given it’s Hawkins, Menzel (when fit) and a whole heap of blokes who contribute little to the scoreboard. We rely heavily on midfield goals.

We’re focusing on the wrong end of the ground. The defence is doing as well as it can. The forward line is a dysfunctional mess.

 

[iameviljez]

We’ve also tried to play more attackingly than in the first half of the season. GWS and Carlton at home spring to mind as games where we’ve conceded next to nothing but only created a little more ourselves.

It was something mentioned during the week in the lead up to the Tigers by Scott. Not verbatim but the gist of it was that he believed that against the better teams we need to be able to score and not just try and defend stoutly as weight of numbers will kill us in the end. A clear shift in focus imo.

Totally agree. It's also about - as Buckley pointed out - the clear absence of risk in our game when exiting defence.

I think we got a bit burnt by the lack of speed in our defence in 2014/15 (remember when Rioli effectively got six goals out the back one night?), and so we now tend to be careful not to turn it over on the way out. But it does hurt our watchability, and ability to kick a winning score.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Totally agree. It's also about - as Buckley pointed out - the clear absence of risk in our game when exiting defence.

I think we got a bit burnt by the lack of speed in our defence in 2014/15 (remember when Rioli effectively got six goals out the back one night?), and so we now tend to be careful not to turn it over on the way out. But it does hurt our watchability, and ability to kick a winning score.

We need someone like Jayden Hunt or similar. That Wojcinski role.
We can’t break a line.

We used to exit D50 by setting up HT/Lonergan/ruckman on the flank and would kick wide to them to mark and then go from there. Now our kick ins get spoiled or turned over and come back in.

 

[you pick one]

You’re one of the guys I’m talking about.

This ground we supposedly struggle at btw, The MCG we’ve conceded 100+ on it just the once. The problem in each of games there is scoring.

Which is no surprise given it’s Hawkins, Menzel (when fit) and a whole heap of blokes who contribute little to the scoreboard. We rely heavily on midfield goals.

We’re focusing on the wrong end of the ground. The defence is doing as well as it can. The forward line is a dysfunctional mess.

I'm happy to be one of the guys your talking about,my point is we have a defensive coach who is prepared to push everyone into the defensive fifty to stop the opposition from scorning, that's fine if that's his game plan,but we can't complain when we look a rabble going the other way when we win the ball deep back and there is no one forward of the ball to kick to.
We acquit ourselves up forward alright on the quick break from the center bounces while the forward structures are still in place,and as recently been shown when we go to full on attack when there is no other way to win the game.
We need to find a balance, and we won't do that unless the back 7 our normal set up can hold their own with less support and I don't think they can at the moment and the way we play the game suggests to me Scott thinks like wise.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Y
Which is no surprise given it’s Hawkins, Menzel (when fit) and a whole heap of blokes who contribute little to the scoreboard. We rely heavily on midfield goals.

We’re focusing on the wrong end of the ground. The defence is doing as well as it can. The forward line is a dysfunctional mess.

It's a personnel issue.
Some of them may be alright in the future, but Hawkins/Menzel aside, our current forward group are Wooden Spoon standard.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

No it isn't, it is the most efficient in terms of score per inside 50 in the comp.
Our issue is our midfield and our inability to provide decent defensive pressure around the ball and on the spread.
If we won more that our fair share of inside 50s we'd be top of the ladder.

No it is. Absolutely categorically is.

Hawkins - 49
Menzel - 22
Parfitt - 11
Parsons - 9
Ratugolea - 7
Fogarty - 5
Henry - 5 (in 3 games)
Narkle - 4
Jones - 4
Gregson - 3

Those are the guys I’d say have spent the majority of their time up forward.
We don’t have a CHF. Don’t have goal kicking small. Don’t have any ability to crumb the ball.

Hawkins has to run up the ground to be our link up forward/CHF. Has to be our deep spearhead. Yet despite that is also our F50 ruckman and leads the club. Not forward line.. CLUB. For goal assists.

Dangerfield 20, Menegola 19, Kelly 16, Ablett 10, Selwood 7, Stanley 6, Duncan 5.

Danger and Menegola have 39 between them. All those forwards bar Menzel and Hawkins have 48.

and you’re telling me this forward line isn’t inept and utterly dysfunctional?
That’s our weakness. Not worrying about some over criticised defenders who keep us in games.

 

[you pick one]

No it is. Absolutely categorically is.

Hawkins - 49
Menzel - 22
Parfitt - 11
Parsons - 9
Ratugolea - 7
Fogarty - 5
Henry - 5 (in 3 games)
Narkle - 4
Jones - 4
Gregson - 3

Those are the guys I’d say have spent the majority of their time up forward.
We don’t have a CHF. Don’t have goal kicking small. Don’t have any ability to crumb the ball.

Hawkins has to run up the ground to be our link up forward/CHF. Has to be our deep spearhead. Yet despite that is also our F50 ruckman and leads the club. Not forward line.. CLUB. For goal assists.

Dangerfield 20, Menegola 19, Kelly 16, Ablett 10, Selwood 7, Stanley 6, Duncan 5.

Danger and Menegola have 39 between them. All those forwards bar Menzel and Hawkins have 48.

and you’re telling me this forward line isn’t inept and utterly dysfunctional?
That’s our weakness. Not worrying about some over criticised defenders who keep us in games.

These blokes also have a major involvement in propping up our back half as well,be fair.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

These blokes also have a major involvement in our back half as well,be fair.

Re-read and get back to me.
You’ll figure out what I’m saying, you’re a smart boy.

Hint: has nothing to do with those bolded

 

[Mad_Hatter]

No it is. Absolutely categorically is.

Hawkins - 49
Menzel - 22
Parfitt - 11
Parsons - 9
Ratugolea - 7
Fogarty - 5
Henry - 5 (in 3 games)
Narkle - 4
Jones - 4
Gregson - 3

Those are the guys I’d say have spent the majority of their time up forward.
We don’t have a CHF. Don’t have goal kicking small. Don’t have any ability to crumb the ball.

Hawkins has to run up the ground to be our link up forward/CHF. Has to be our deep spearhead. Yet despite that is also our F50 ruckman and leads the club. Not forward line.. CLUB. For goal assists.

Dangerfield 20, Menegola 19, Kelly 16, Ablett 10, Selwood 7, Stanley 6, Duncan 5.

Danger and Menegola have 39 between them. All those forwards bar Menzel and Hawkins have 48.

and you’re telling me this forward line isn’t inept and utterly dysfunctional?
That’s our weakness. Not worrying about some over criticised defenders who keep us in games.

So how the **** are they so efficient then?
The AFL average for scores per inside 50 is 45% (according to C7), Geelong sit at 46.5% which is from what I checked easily the best in the league.
So, how the hell can the most efficient forwardline in the comp be our weakness and "inept and utterly dysfunctional"?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

So how the **** are they so efficient then?
The AFL average for scores per inside 50 is 45% (according to C7), Geelong sit at 46.5% which is from what I checked easily the best in the league.
So, how the hell can the most efficient forwardline in the comp be our weakness and "inept and utterly dysfunctional"?

We’re talking across purposes. I’m talking about personnel in that area. You’re not.

 

[you pick one]

Re-read and get back to me.
You’ll figure out what I’m saying, you’re a smart boy.

Hint: has nothing to do with those bolded

Why go to all that trouble then,any way how many of those goal do you think would have been kicked while the player was playing a forward role at the time?there are very few set positions on a footy field these days.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Why go to all that trouble then,any way how many of those goal do you think would have been kicked while the player was playing a forward role at the time?there are very few set positions on a footy field these days.

Some would have been as forwards yes. Some as a midfielder.

In a away it helps my point. The fact we need to send mids forward to have any semblance of potency should be an alarm bell that our specialist forwards are inept. Menzel and Hawkins excepted.

 

[you pick one]

Some would have been as forwards yes. Some as a midfielder.

In a away it helps my point. The fact we need to send mids forward to have any semblance of potency should be an alarm bell that our specialist forwards are inept. Menzel and Hawkins excepted.

Scotts been there 8 years it's the way he's set the side up to play,I'm not sure he see's players as straight mids other than for center bounces structures and from there they are all utilities pushing both back and forward as the game and rotations dictate.
Anyway enough of this a serious question I see you get to a bit of the VFL,it's late in the year to be experimenting but could Constable play a role down back this week with Bews out not like for like but might give us some drive.

 

[iameviljez]

We need someone like Jayden Hunt or similar. That Wojcinski role.
We can’t break a line.

We used to exit D50 by setting up HT/Lonergan/ruckman on the flank and would kick wide to them to mark and then go from there. Now our kick ins get spoiled or turned over and come back in.

Yep. This is where I would love to see Bews get more of the footy - he isn't the most talented user of the ball, sure, but he does have pace to burn.

We don't have that tall get-out marking option without Henderson in form and HT playing. Stewart is great, but he's a competitive scrapper rather than a great natural mark. Neither Blitz nor Stanley are a completely sure pair of hands, either.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Scotts been there 8 years it's the way he's set the side up to play,I'm not sure he see's players as straight mids other than for center bounces structures and from there they are all utilities pushing both back and forward as the game and rotations dictate.
Anyway enough of this a serious question I see you get to a bit of the VFL,it's late in the year to be experimenting but could Constable play a role down back this week with Bews out not like for like but might give us some drive.

He was a noted halfback in U18’s and compared to Goddard. Compared to Pendlebury as a midfielder and I do like the progress he’s made in the 2nd half of the year.

First half he got a lot of touches but had little impact on results. He runs hard into the dangerous space, extracts the ball in tight and clearly has a footy brain. I think he’s definitely got better since he had a break.

Could he play Jed’s position. Probably not but he could play in the back 6 and switch someone like Stewart into Jed’s position.

Would I do it now? No. I would hold him back and debut him next year. Let him keep developing and building as he is. It’s not like it’ll cost us a flag as we’re not likely to win it given we’ll now have to win 7 straight and that’s unlikely.

 

[iameviljez]

Scotts been there 8 years it's the way he's set the side up to play,I'm not sure he see's players as straight mids other than for center bounces structures and from there they are all utilities pushing both back and forward as the game and rotations dictate.
Anyway enough of this a serious question I see you get to a bit of the VFL,it's late in the year to be experimenting but could Constable play a role down back this week with Bews out not like for like but might give us some drive.

Selwood, Corey and Horlin-Smith are the three who I cannot remember ever playing any other role.

 

[Seeds]

My scapegoat is the weather. I think we win quite well if it was a dry deck.

 

[JohnZ]

So how the **** are they so efficient then?
The AFL average for scores per inside 50 is 45% (according to C7), Geelong sit at 46.5% which is from what I checked easily the best in the league.
So, how the hell can the most efficient forwardline in the comp be our weakness and "inept and utterly dysfunctional"?

How can we find out how many I50s we have had this year? Because I dare say our inability to get the ball into our F50 has been our biggest downfall.

When we do, generally it's off the back of quick play so there's lots of space, hence the higher conversion % than average

 

[Ratcat]

Fogarty and Jones weak pressure no goal or goal assit forwards let us down every week.
Non contributors that are just baggage.

 

[Turbocat]

My scapegoat is the weather. I think we win quite well if it was a dry deck.

Night and wet ..is not our best

 

[Mad_Hatter]

How can we find out how many I50s we have had this year? Because I dare say our inability to get the ball into our F50 has been our biggest downfall.

When we do, generally it's off the back of quick play so there's lots of space, hence the higher conversion % than average

We've had 1003 inside 50s thus far this season which is 8th.

 

[The rabbi]

I blame Parsons. He did not get a stat Friday night.