West Coast's 1992 Premiership doesn't get enough Recognition

[chrisjie]

Why? Because of alleged steroid use.

 

[Sman-21]

Typical eagles fan deflection going on here

were not a state side
werent given a **** load of concessions
They werent on steroids just smarter than all the footy people in victoria
Are not a franchise
Eagles didnt hide players from the other clubs so they could get them.

An they wonder why they get no respect
The eagles underachieved they should have been able to win 3 or 4

If any new team got it as good an easy as the eagles did when starting an won a premiership not long after thx to all that help u can guarantee people once again wont respect the premiership win an im sure the eagles fans will be the biggest whingers about oh they only won coz the AFL gave them massive concessions

 

[Forrest Gimp]

Why? Because of alleged steroid use.

Even IF the alleged steroid use took place, football is a game of SKILL. It's not a MR. Universe contest.

 

[Forrest Gimp]

Typical eagles fan deflection going on here

were not a state side
werent given a **** load of concessions
They werent on steroids just smarter than all the footy people in victoria
Are not a franchise
Eagles didnt hide players from the other clubs so they could get them.

An they wonder why they get no respect
The eagles underachieved they should have been able to win 3 or 4

If any new team got it as good an easy as the eagles did when starting an won a premiership not long after thx to all that help u can guarantee people once again wont respect the premiership win an im sure the eagles fans will be the biggest whingers about oh they only won coz the AFL gave them massive concessions

Did you even READ Eagle87's response, or care to take a look at one/all of the videos I posted? you come on here giving your worthless, bias opinion, well after your points have been rebuted with cold, hard facts. Are you stupid, buddy?

 

[coasting]

This is a great thread. It got plenty of media attention at the time (there was even a huge discussion about whether the cup should be allowed to leave Victoria ) but its been somewhat forgotten since. The Eagles almost single-handedly revolutionized the AFL and many of todays laws (interstate finals etc) were brought by actions of the West Coast Eagles but we get almost no credit for it. Regardless of whether you think the 92 Eagles team were a state team or not (personally I think not when you see guys like Fatty Lamb and Karl Langdon) the facts remains they don't get the recognition they deserve... and I don't mean for being a great team but for being the 1st non-Victorian team to win a flag and paving the way for other interstate teams to follow.

 

[Crow-mo]

Couldn't give a toss what Wiki says, you had the pick of the State, you his players for years.

And good on ya, you got the prize...but it just plays it down a bit for mine, not one of the best Premiers of the 90s up till now, thats why it doesnt get hyped up much...OK?

If you don't want non WC supporters to post, keep it to your board champ...

everytime I think the IQ of the average BigFooty post is rising, people like this are always there to restore my faith in the lowest common denominator.

Big scott, I think you left the **** out of your username.

that team was awesome, and certainly deserved all the recognition in the world.

 

[Scotland]

Who cares whether the eagles had a state side in 1987? That's not the issue here. The issue is whether their 1992 premiership was won by a state team.

May I direct your attention to the 1991 flogging of Victoria by WA - Western Australia 19.13 (127) d. Victoria 7.9 (51)

Now take a look at the line up for WA:

Backs: Ben Allan Guy McKenna Earl Spalding
Half-backs: Ashley McIntosh Glen Jakovich Dwayne Lamb
Centres: Peter Matera Mark Bairstow Chris Mainwaring
Half-forwards: Nicky Winmar Craig Starcevich Brett Heady
Forwards: Darren Bewick Peter Sumich Allen Jakovich
Ruck: Paul Harding Craig Turley Don Pyke
Reserves: Chris Waterman, Dean Kemp, Karl Langdon, Scott Watters

The ones in bold were eagles players. 15 of the 22 players!

Remember this is a WA team who flogged the Victorian state team. Now if that doesn't prove that the eagles had a powerhouse state team whose depth of quality was unfair in comparison to the suburban clubs they were facing then I don't know what does.

About the only decent anti-Eagles post in the thread, but the club was formed in 1986, not 1992. How the original squad was put together has been outlined by Eagle87 already, and I see (predictably) no one has attempted to respond to it. Besides, in the supposed era of equalisation Geelong 2007 had 9 of 22 All Australians. Does that make them a National team?

 

[estibador]

Besides, in the supposed era of equalisation Geelong 2007 had 9 of 22 All Australians. Does that make them a National team?

Geelong put their team together within the same confines of the draft that every other team did. (Save for a few leg up's from the F/S rule of the time)

The eagles put their team together through draft concessions that weren't available to the other teams. That's the difference.

 

[greennick]

Geelong put their team together within the same confines of the draft that every other team did. (Save for a few leg up's from the F/S rule of the time)

The eagles put their team together through draft concessions that weren't available to the other teams. That's the difference.

Fremantle was put together through draft concessions that weren't available to every other team. Yet you have done SFA. What is the difference? Good trading, drafting and development, a concept foreign to those down at Freo!

 

[Crimson King]

Still no response to E87's post?

A winner E87.

 

[Eagle87]

Geelong put their team together within the same confines of the draft that every other team did. (Save for a few leg up's from the F/S rule of the time)

The eagles put their team together through draft concessions that weren't available to the other teams. That's the difference.

Esti, every team that starts from scratch has to start outside the draft ruls because they need 40+ players!

Surely you can see that?

The Eagles were actually given 37 players in year one and were then given a series of priority picks over the next several years to bring their list up to the 52 that every one else already had.

The priority picks were the only to be used on WAFL players.

They could have given us 52 picks from WA in year 1 but they decided to limit impact on the WAFL to step it out over several years. That wasnt a concession to West Coast but to the WAFL.

All we did was get 52 players to compete with other clubs and apart from being able to sign some players from existing clubs (the same as Adelaide, Port, Brisbane and the Dockers) we had to take them all from the WAFL. In addition, we didnt get to participate in drafts in 1986 or 1987 and in 1986 arguably the best 10 young players were already signed to VFL clubs BEFORE we got in.

The pre-draft picks got us Jackson, Pyke, Turley, Watters, Sumich, Mann, Jakovich, Turnbull, White, Ball.

Of those 10, 5 played in our premiership team in 1992.

If instead the league had given us access to 52 in 1986 and had announced our licence mid-season so that all WAFL players would have been available to us instead of signed up by rival clubs, you would replace those 10 with Wilson, Sartori, Dennis, Winmar, Bairstow, Mitchell, Spalding, Christian, Starcevich and Dean.

So I ask you, if instead of those "concessional picks" which yielded the 10 players listed we replaced them with:
Bairstow
Spalding
Christian
Winmar
Starcevich
Wilson
Mitchell
Dean
Sartori &
Dennis
do you reckon we wouldnt have won?

Every new team needs to get a squad from somewhere, in our case it was a decimated WAFL with a good bunch of under 18's. We then drafted and trade very well.

No mystery, no state side, no conspiracy - just fundamentally good team building.

Freo were unlucky because they came in when the WAFL wasnt great, but they picked players to compete immediately instead of 5 years on and they picked players that Neesham liked instead of the best players. They then traded for ordinary players and didnt use the draft very well.

You guys just need to learn to deal with reality.... instead of wishful thinking.

 

[Masten2McKinley]

meh vics hate us for it thats why who cares i reconise it

 

[estibador]

Fremantle was put together through draft concessions that weren't available to every other team. Yet you have done SFA. What is the difference?

Possibly that our concessions were nowhere near as generous as yours - and that we were trying to put a list together from a WAFL comp that had not only been r*ped of players by the eagles concessions but also by five years of the national draft?

Plus Neesham f**ked us from the start with his short sighted and ill-advised list building philosophies...

 

[Eagle87]

Possibly that our concessions were nowhere near as generous as yours - and that we were trying to put a list together from a WAFL comp that had not only been r*ped of players by the eagles concessions but also by five years of the national draft?

Plus Neesham f**ked us from the start with his short sighted philosophies...

This is the key. Port were in the same situation, drafted well, traded well and were a top side within 5 or 6 years.

Freo's philosophy and approach have never been correct OR consistent.

Nothing to do with concessions...

 

[Selggad]

I remember two things about the 92 grand final.

1) Driving through Margaret River at half time with a mate when he suggested we should rob the local bank cause there was no one to be seen anywhere; they were all glued to the TV and wouldn't have moved for anything

2) A mate's old man ringing up random phone numbers from the Melbourne telephone book after the game and yelling "Suck s***, we won the flag!!"

That was pure gold. Despite arguments, I think everybody knows the true national sport of Australia is bagging Victorians. It's a favourite past time in every state and territory of the country...except one

 

[MerryHell]

The 92 GF gets plenty of recognition from me. I was lucky enough to be at that game. I remember having no voice left after the first quarter from calling Ablett every bad name under the sun for his elbow to the temple of Don Pyke taking him out of the game... that hit would have got 12 weeks today, Ablett didnt even get cited!!! Pyke was a very underrated skilled mid, when he got the ball it would invariably end up lace out in Sumich's hands. Ah good memories... the days before DVD i watched the replay on VHS so many times the sound track went hahaha "Matera sets saaaail for home, and the eagles... have hit the front!"

 

[Pj.Rj.Hj]

A state franchise owned by the VFL through the puppet company Indian Pacific Ltd beat a country team.

Linga, mate,
I know I've posted this briefly before on other post but can you finally drop the Indian Pacific being a VFL entity crap. I don't know who told you that but it is out right false. I hope you watched the youtube posts which explained why IPL was set up and floated.

I'll sumerise anyway, WA footy had insufficient power to raise the estimated $10 million to pay for the licence and cover the establishment costs. To cover the start up cost a Limited partnership was formed which included Pacific Mutual Australia, Vox International ltd, Centreline Holding Pty ltd, WA Newspaper ltd, McInerner Sales Pty ltd, Arjay Pty ltd, TJP Investment Pty ltd, Gary Richard Pearce and William Murray Mitchell. Not a VFL in sight. They raised $4.7 million with the Publicly float IPL making up $12.3 million with with an initial listing at 45cents a share.

So please stop embarrassing yourself with dribble you don't understand.

Oh yes, as for the original topic of the thread; 92 was a defining moment in League history, shame it couldn't happen the year before.

 

[greennick]

Possibly that our concessions were nowhere near as generous as yours - and that we were trying to put a list together from a WAFL comp that had not only been r*ped of players by the eagles concessions but also by five years of the national draft?

Port Adelaide seemed to do OK with the same concessions at the same time.

Plus Neesham f**ked us from the start with his short sighted and ill-advised list building philosophies...

Almost there, it isn't the lack of list concessions for why you never won a flag as every other new interstate club has done, it is the rubbish trading, drafting and development.

 

[greennick]

Linga, mate,
I know I've posted this briefly before on other post but can you finally drop the Indian Pacific being a VFL entity crap. I don't know who told you that but it is out right false. I hope you watched the youtube posts which explained why IPL was set up and floated.

I'll sumerise anyway, WA footy had insufficient power to raise the estimated $10 million to pay for the licence and cover the establishment costs. To cover the start up cost a Limited partnership was formed which included Pacific Mutual Australia, Vox International ltd, Centreline Holding Pty ltd, WA Newspaper ltd, McInerner Sales Pty ltd, Arjay Pty ltd, TJP Investment Pty ltd, Gary Richard Pearce and William Murray Mitchell. Not a VFL in sight. They raised $4.7 million with the Publicly float IPL making up $12.3 million with with an initial listing at 45cents a share.

So please stop embarrassing yourself with dribble you don't understand.

I have witnessed numerous embarrassments of Linga before, he will still come back for more though. I guess the more he does this though, the more people there are that have realised how little he knows what he is talking about despite the authority with which he makes his assertions.

 

[Forrest Gimp]

I remember two things about the 92 grand final.

1) Driving through Margaret River at half time with a mate when he suggested we should rob the local bank cause there was no one to be seen anywhere; they were all glued to the TV and wouldn't have moved for anything

2) A mate's old man ringing up random phone numbers from the Melbourne telephone book after the game and yelling "Suck s***, we won the flag!!"

That was pure gold. Despite arguments, I think everybody knows the true national sport of Australia is bagging Victorians. It's a favourite past time in every state and territory of the country...except one

Good stuff

 

[Audacious]

haha at least the smart freo fans stayed away from this thread. The stupid ones came in all guns blazing, only to be sent home with their tails between their legs.

Oh and a couple of Geelong fans who have worn a chip on their shoulders for 16 years look pretty dumb too and E87 post.

Great thread

 

[Rids]

Not 100% sure of the purpose of this thread ... I think we get plenty of recognition ... although admittedly I am WA based so maybe not recognised in VIC?

But I have just got to give a big to Sico and E87's posts - sensational to see facts given a genuine run in a discussion without resorting to stereotypes and playing the man (which has been done by both sides Eagles and non-Eagles supporters).

 

[TheRealComptroller]

Youre an idiot.

Dean Kemp: taken at draft #117.

Ashley McIntosh: drafted at #112

Why didnt the poor old suburban Vic clubs take these 2 players?

This post is totally disingenuous.

Victorian clubs were only allowed one WA player per draft.

So Geelong takes Stephen Hooper from the WAFL at #1 in 1990 (lol) they are then unable to consider the players you have mentioned. Geelong (or indeed any other club) may have rated them as a good top 20-30 selection but it didn't matter; they were locked out after having taken a WA player earlier.

Thus Kemp or McIntosh's true draft value is totally unknown because the integrity of the draft was thoroughly compromised vis-a-vis WA players in these years.

 

[Eagle87]

This post is totally disingenuous.

Victorian clubs were only allowed one WA player per draft.

So Geelong takes Stephen Hooper from the WAFL at #1 in 1990 (lol) they are then unable to consider the players you have mentioned. Geelong (or indeed any other club) may have rated them as a good top 20-30 selection but it didn't matter; they were locked out after having taken a WA player earlier.

Thus Kemp or McIntosh's true draft value is totally unknown because the integrity of the draft was thoroughly compromised vis-a-vis WA players in these years.

McIntosh was a father/son to West Coast so Vic clubs didnt have a chance but your Kemp comment is interesting.

In order to protect the WAFL and ensure the Eagles still had some WAFL players to select for their still undersize squad (37 v 52 for everyone else) it is true that each team could only select one WAFL player.

WAFL players selected that year:

Matera (4) - WCE (Yep, Richmond, Footscray & St Kilda missed him)
Rowe (5) - Brisbane
Brayshaw (6) North
Edgar (7) Carlton
Tunbridge (8) - Sydney
Kickett (9) Fitzroy
Allan (14) - Hawthorn
Rose (38) - Collingwood
Cransberg (39) Essendon
Rapacholi (48) Footscray
Jones (49) St Kilda
Irving (50) West Coast
Evans (64) WC
Heady (92) WC

Kemp (117) WC

So the 11 clubs who took a WAFL player didnt rate Kemp and the 3 clubs (Melbourne, Richmond & Geelong) that chose to not pick anyone from WA clearly didnt either. So while it is true that Kemp may have gone higher IF other clubs had more than 1 WAFL pick, the reality is he was the 20th WAFL player taken (including pre-draft picks) and that rates him pretty low given that 20 WAFL players per draft is rarely reached. Every club had a chance and every club passed.

The reality remains that getting Kemp was hardly a "concession" when every club in the AFL passed on him before we picked him.

I presume you take a similar view of the 1986 and 1987 drafts, since WC were excluded from them? So on your logic, those drafts were "compromised"? I mean Darren Jarman at 50, Alastair Lynch at 50, Tingay at 50....

The reality remains, that we were disadvantaged on our entry, we were restricted in our squad size (15 less than everyone else), we could only take players from a WAFL comp which had its best 40 players already playing at other teams and we had no training facilities, no training ground and no club facilities of any kind. We took kids because we had no choice and we nailed our draft picks.

No doubt we were assisted by abject uselessness of many Vic clubs in assessing WA talent and no doubt we were assisted by having a great under 18 team in WA in 1986. That said, we took kids, drafted well, trading well and built a great side - setting up the correct formula for the modern (draft) era.

 

[Consumed]

Going by the quality of West Coast posters in this thread, not too many of you were walking back then.
Let alone born.

Talk about '91, tools.