Enough is enough

[Miguel Sanchez]

The lawsuits is a good start. Many have spoken up about it. Harley Balics dad, Daniel Chick, Brad Sheppard, Jeff Farmer, Poly Farmer. List goes on. I cant really post 300 articles for you

Would you at least accept that Polly Farmer, who died in 2019 and was, I believe, not of legal capacity for a number of years prior to that, is probably not able to be relied upon as giving a contemporary account of the support offered to past players?

Follow up question: would you also accept that there may have been some developments and improvements made in recent years? Or are you still going to bring out Chick’s interview with the Hun in 2015?

 

[Bucking Bronco]

I guess seat belts in cars are woke too.

No, it's about making changes that cross the point of being reasonable.

When you are looking at completely changing the fabric of a contact sport where concussion is an inherent part of its nature, that is to the detriment of being woke.

Seat belts are not unreasonable, and are not really to the detriment of anyone within the act of driving a car

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The lawsuits is a good start. Many have spoken up about it. Harley Balics dad, Daniel Chick, Brad Sheppard, Jeff Farmer, Poly Farmer. List goes on. I cant really post 300 articles for you.

Let's look at Balic's father first then,
“I believe that the AFL has a duty of care to formally intervene early into young vulnerable players who have been identified as having substance abuse issues,” he told The Herald Sun.

“I also feel that had better support been put in place early for my son, it may have prevented this tragic outcome.

“The huge disappointment is that the AFL knew a lot and as a family we weren’t told. We may have saved him earlier."

We have a father declaring that the AFL should have autonomy over a person or player. This is just not going to happen. By his own admission his son was lost to drugs.

Sheppard was suing the Eagles for damages due to costs arising from concussion and other injuries. No statement was made about the AFL not providing support as an ex-player.

No idea what Farmer's issues was, found no reference to it.

Chick was a loose cannon, might still be.

Show you the cause of death meaning what? Harley Balic, Shane Yarran, Danny Frawley, Shane Tuck causes have been proven.... and we ignored it. The last 3 days is just the continuation not the beginning

You're in here saying enough is enough, more must be done, as a result of death of Selwood and Hunter when we have no knwn cause of death, and no understanding of what exactly transpired prior to their death. You've just drawn your own conclusion and then also declared nothing was done to stop it, when you don't actually know at all.

The literal lawsuit is about everything you are saying in the last paragraph. If you believe it isnt you are misinterpeting the case

You have no nuance to anything you're posting in here.

You're simply saying "ex-players dead = AFL didn't do enough", not because we know how or why they died, whether they were neglected at all....but just because you say so.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

No, it's about making changes that cross the point of being reasonable.

When you are looking at completely changing the fabric of a contact sport where concussion is an inherent part of its nature, that is to the detriment of being woke.

Seat belts are not unreasonable, and are not really to the detriment of anyone within the act of driving a car

There was a time when people of your ilk rallied against seat belts and laws to wear them.

All this woke nonsense from you is just that, nonsense.

People don't want to see players dealing with the fallout of CTE or in the short term, loss of careers, and there are ways to curtail that by adjusting rules and making players more aware of the impact of brain trauma.

 

[Bucking Bronco]

There was a time when people of your ilk rallied against seat belts and laws to wear them.

All this woke nonsense from you is just that, nonsense.

People don't want to see players dealing with the fallout of CTE or in the short term, loss of careers, and there are ways to curtail that by adjusting rules and making players more aware of the impact of brain trauma.

You are speaking for yourself.

If players choose to compete in the AFL or the UFC at this point and get CTE, then I don't really care.

They know the risks, and in the case of the AFL, are getting well remunerated to take those risks.

As long as the unnecessary risks are removed which don't take away from what the game is, and are also distasteful, like the Byron Pickett bumps, then there is not really any more that can be done in my opinion.

It also needs to be kept in mind that we are talking about the vast minority of AFL players ending up with debilitating CTE.

About a fourth of professional boxers are estimated to suffer from CTE in their later years, and that is a much, much more concussion-heavy sport.

Changing the fabric of the AFL, essentially to a point where it removes almost all physicality, including speccies, so 5%-10% of the players who get paid enough to never have to work again, can avoid getting CTE later in life is not something that I believe should be put above upholding the game's DNA.

I think it's incredibly unfortunate, and sad to see guys suffering from CTE, but hopefully not too long from now we will have testing that can show people's propensity for developing CTE, and those players can have a more educated idea of what exactly they are getting themselves in to, specific to them.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You are speaking for yourself.

If players choose to compete in the AFL or the UFC at this point and get CTE, then I don't really care.

They know the risks, and in the case of the AFL, are getting well remunerated to take those risks.

As long as the unnecessary risks are removed which don't take away from what the game is, and are also distasteful, like the Byron Pickett bumps, then there is not really any more that can be done in my opinion.

It also needs to be kept in mind that we are talking about the vast minority of AFL players ending up with debilitating CTE.

About a fourth of professional boxers are estimated to suffer from CTE in their later years, and that is a much, much more concussion-heavy sport.

Changing the fabric of the AFL, essentially to a point where it removes almost all physicality, including speccies, so 5%-10% of the players who get paid enough to never have to work again, can avoid getting CTE later in life is not something that I believe should be put above upholding the game's DNA.

I think it's incredibly unfortunate, and sad to see guys suffering from CTE, but hopefully not too long from now we will have testing that can show people's propensity for developing CTE, and those players can have a more educated idea of what exactly they are getting themselves in to, specific to them.

I’m not speaking for myself, I can see the AFL changing the rules right in front of me.

You’re in denial, choosing to create some sort of fantasy where the game stays as you want it to. It’s not and has already changed.

You can call it woke if you like, but like most who use that word unironically, you’ll just get laughed at.

 

[Outtatym]

Im sorry but this needs its own thread and needs one ASAP

Enough is enough

If AFL can find 600 million for ****ing Gold Coast they can find some for well the actual players

We as fans need to demand better. This is just not on. Its a black stain on the game right now. It cannot contimue for even 1 day more. The top brass need to have some class and announce some funding for supporting current and ex players NOW.

Dancing around the subject and losing 1 more life cant happen.

FIX IT NOW!!!!

Nearly 9 Australians die every day via suicide. 75% of them male.

I agree with your sentiments , but just because they have played football at the highest level it does not make them 'different' from a normal person. If you're angling that this is a direct cause from head knocks etc, I think it's unwise to paint them all with the same brush without evidence.

Like many things in this country mental health is largely underfunded by governments.

 

[The Feeder Club]

I’m not speaking for myself, I can see the AFL changing the rules right in front of me.

You’re in denial, choosing to create some sort of fantasy where the game stays as you want it to. It’s not and has already changed.

You can call it woke if you like, but like most who use that word unironically, you’ll just get laughed at.

Gee you spend an inordinate amount of time on this site running from thread to thread getting triggered by anyone using the term woke in the pejorative. Get over it.

Having said that, the only reason I am still reading this dumbass thread is to find out more about these stampeding pink elephants. So I guess well done for raising the effort to take it seriously

 

[iameviljez]

You are speaking for yourself.

If players choose to compete in the AFL or the UFC at this point and get CTE, then I don't really care.

They know the risks, and in the case of the AFL, are getting well remunerated to take those risks.

There are two major objections I have to this line of thinking:

1) We are talking about decisions made by young men, where the consequences are, if you are very unlucky, borne by much older men. Frankly, 18 year old boys are idiots, they think they're invulnerable, they don't know what living everyday with a degenerative condition feels like, and they don't think it'll happen to them. It's why they're such good soldiers.

2) Leading neuroscientists can't quantify what the risks are - very, very little is known about CTE at this point. If they don't know, what hope do 18 year old idiots have?

If you were talking about a broken arm or a busted ACL, I'd actually agree with you. You sign up, you know and understand broken bones, you get hit, you bear the consequences in real time. CTE is different.

 

[iameviljez]

Are you drawing a distinction between common law claims for damages and statutory compensation schemes?

We might have hit my IANAL limit

 

[Cmarsh]

I don't want stomp all over the good intentions of high profile and seemingly caring people who encourage men to talk regarding their mental state to combat the societal shame of doing so.

However that messaging is a little simplistic to me. If talking was the answer, then why do still a large number of mental illness sufferers still die by suicide even when in treatment.

It seems to me the drivers of why someone kills themselves aren't necessarily relieved by talking about problems. But that is often presented as the solution to personal problems that may lead to suicide.

It's like when we hear of a suicide, the response "we need to talk more" is trotted out every time, seemingly assuming if this person did talk then the suicide wouldn't have happened.

 

[iameviljez]

I don't want stomp all over the good intentions of high profile and seemingly caring people who encourage men to talk regarding their mental state to combat the societal shame of doing so.

However that messaging is a little simplistic to me. If talking was the answer, then why do still a large number of mental illness sufferers still die by suicide even when in treatment.

It seems to me the drivers of why someone kills themselves aren't necessarily relieved by talking about problems. But that is often presented as the solution to personal problems that may lead to suicide.

It's like when we hear of a suicide, the response "we need to talk more" is trotted out every time, seemingly assuming if this person did talk then the suicide wouldn't have happened.

I think a lot of it is because we look at the difference between the suicide rates for men and women, and ask ourselves what the differences are.

 

[Mr Meow]

It is woke.

The AFL have an unhealthy obsession with being liked.

It has crossed the point of them making changes due to what they're legally obligated to do, and now ventured into them making changes based on "image"/ "well-being".

Those are all great things, in most instances, but when you are operating within the confines of a contact sport, those things don't jive, unless you want to completely overhaul the fabric of the game, which they are now half-way to doing.

As you said, are we going to now look at removing speccies because they cause CTE?

Buddy, this is a contact sport.

Athletes pursuing a career in the AFL should be doing so, under the expectation that they will get concussed 15-20 times across the course of their junior/ adult career, it comes with the territory of being an athlete playing a contact sport.

Yes, the AFL should do everything they can to remove unnecessary instances that don't actually add anything to the game of benefit like the Pickett bumps, and the slinging tackles, but taking things away like hard-fought tackles/ bumps that don't make any contact with the head (like Dan Houston's), is literally a one-way ticket to turning the sport into basketball on grass.

No one is forcing anyone to play AFL.

If people don't want to run the risk of getting concussed, then they can go play non-contact sports that don't carry the risk of CTE like tennis, or work a mundane live in an office/ on a work site.

I'm not convinced you know what "woke" means. Hint: it isn't that.

 

[Cmarsh]

I think a lot of it is because we look at the difference between the suicide rates for men and women, and ask ourselves what the differences are.

Women and girls do non-lethal self harm at higher rates than men do. Yet society perceives (probably inaccurately) females at better at talking about their problems. It's not like females are less in emotional turmoil than men are.

 

[Bucking Bronco]

I'm not convinced you know what "woke" means. Hint: it isn't that.

You realise words have multiple meanings right?

And people decipher the specific use of the word based off of the context??



It's like calling a girl a baddie.

A boomer might think you're insulting their daughter, but to a zoomer, they know you are actually paying her a compliment.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Let's look at Balic's father first then,
“I believe that the AFL has a duty of care to formally intervene early into young vulnerable players who have been identified as having substance abuse issues,” he told The Herald Sun.

“I also feel that had better support been put in place early for my son, it may have prevented this tragic outcome.

“The huge disappointment is that the AFL knew a lot and as a family we weren’t told. We may have saved him earlier."

We have a father declaring that the AFL should have autonomy over a person or player. This is just not going to happen. By his own admission his son was lost to drugs.

Sheppard was suing the Eagles for damages due to costs arising from concussion and other injuries. No statement was made about the AFL not providing support as an ex-player.

No idea what Farmer's issues was, found no reference to it.

Chick was a loose cannon, might still be.



You're in here saying enough is enough, more must be done, as a result of death of Selwood and Hunter when we have no knwn cause of death, and no understanding of what exactly transpired prior to their death. You've just drawn your own conclusion and then also declared nothing was done to stop it, when you don't actually know at all.


You have no nuance to anything you're posting in here.

You're simply saying "ex-players dead = AFL didn't do enough", not because we know how or why they died, whether they were neglected at all....but just because you say so.

He’s an absolutely screaming ninnie.

Keyboard warrior of the highest order, big slabs of usually highly emotional, poorly formed opinions, passed off as facts.

…but other than that, he’s great, obviously.

 

[Mr Meow]

You realise words have multiple meanings right?

And people decipher the specific use of the word based off of the context??

View attachment 2220208

It's like calling a girl a baddie.

A boomer might think you're insulting their daughter, but to a zoomer, they know you are actually paying her a compliment.

Nope, you've made a boo boo and your incoherent ramble was good for comedy value alone.

 

[iameviljez]

It's not like females are less in emotional turmoil than men are.

Less, yes, but lesser. Self-harm is lumped in with suicide, but they are very different things with different aims (relief vs ending).

That said, I'm no psych.

 

[Altum Volantes]

You realise words have multiple meanings right?

And people decipher the specific use of the word based off of the context??

View attachment 2220208

It's like calling a girl a baddie.

A boomer might think you're insulting their daughter, but to a zoomer, they know you are actually paying her a compliment.

oh you such a woke baddie.

 

[Dee Train]

Enough drugs by the sounds of it….

 

[Bucking Bronco]

Nope, you've made a boo boo and your incoherent ramble was good for comedy value alone.

Hahaha.

Learn to use a dictionary son.

 

[rye]

using a legitimate issue as a vehicle to create this terrible thread is shameful

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

It’s woke to be worried about being sued now, apparently.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I don't want stomp all over the good intentions of high profile and seemingly caring people who encourage men to talk regarding their mental state to combat the societal shame of doing so.

However that messaging is a little simplistic to me. If talking was the answer, then why do still a large number of mental illness sufferers still die by suicide even when in treatment.

It seems to me the drivers of why someone kills themselves aren't necessarily relieved by talking about problems. But that is often presented as the solution to personal problems that may lead to suicide.

It's like when we hear of a suicide, the response "we need to talk more" is trotted out every time, seemingly assuming if this person did talk then the suicide wouldn't have happened.

Yes, talking about one's problems is not a silver bullet that cures depression. If it was, we wouldn't need physiotherapists, just someone to sit there and listen. There's more to it than that, but you could call it a first step. Not talking about one's problems and bottling them up means not even taking the first step. I can't imagine a high percentage of those people go on to live lives free of depression.

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

I don't want stomp all over the good intentions of high profile and seemingly caring people who encourage men to talk regarding their mental state to combat the societal shame of doing so.

However that messaging is a little simplistic to me. If talking was the answer, then why do still a large number of mental illness sufferers still die by suicide even when in treatment.

It seems to me the drivers of why someone kills themselves aren't necessarily relieved by talking about problems. But that is often presented as the solution to personal problems that may lead to suicide.

It's like when we hear of a suicide, the response "we need to talk more" is trotted out every time, seemingly assuming if this person did talk then the suicide wouldn't have happened.

I think it really depends on the person and the situation. There are no doubt some people, who have just found themselves in a bad situation, in which suicide becomes a viable option. Perhaps these people have a poor support structure, and no-one to talk to. For these people, talking to someone could save their life. Say someone who doesn't have great coping mechanisms after a marriage breakdown, loss of job, or even just loneliness etc.

Then there are people who are suffering from more severe mental illness, and these people would benefit from a better overall mental health system compared to the idea of ''just talk to someone''.