When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

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owen87

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
12,033
15,246
AFL Club
Essendon
Proof players develop differently. Stats mean very little
Settle down Tiger he wasn't comparing them as players.
It was a terrible comparison. There was no proof or point to make, it’s simply a bad take.

You cant compare the development environment that Parish entered to the genuine build from nothing situation that Dow and his other fellow mid recruits entered into at Carlton. Parish is a far more accomplished mid than Dow is - there is no debate that can be made about that - all one has to look for is kicking ability.

Dow was and still is - an undersized inside mid playing next to a bunch of other under-sized inside mids- getting smashed week in week out for his first 2 years and injured the next. At the grand old age of 20 he has some time to develop - the tough thing for him will be to actually cement a spot in the starting midfield at Carlton - there are a few likely prospects in development in VFL right now he has to get over - I can't see him being preferred over Wiliams/Cripps/Walsh or Ed Curnow atm and he currently lacks the polish to be a HFF/mid rotation - where Martin/Williams/Fisher//Fogarty/Cuningham ( I won't mention 2-3 other you've never heard about in VFL ) all having better credentials - not to mention SPS who has (finally) been kicked out of HBF.

What Dow does have is fast hands and genuine burst speed - time will tell if he develops any other tricks.
Parish walked in to a side that had almost every senior player suspended and played full time midfield for 20 games. He was then sent to the HFF for 3 seasons. And is now playing in the middle again, and showing he’s a good AFL standard midfielder.

Even when exiled to the HFF he performed far and away better than Dow.

Dow is also not 20. He’s 21, coming up on 22, with 4 years in the system.
 

Juddernaut08

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 8, 2007
8,430
10,975
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Parish was literally averaging better numbers than Dow from the time he was 18. Dow is now 21 and in 4 seasons has yet to put together one where he averages Parish's first season numbers.

It's a terrible comparison.
Calm down mate. The point is players take time to develop.

There were plenty of Bombers supporters bemoaning the fact that Parish was yet another smol midfielder to add to the likes of McGrath and Merit. Now Parish has overtaken them all.
 

owen87

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
12,033
15,246
AFL Club
Essendon
Calm down mate. The point is players take time to develop.

There were plenty of Bombers supporters bemoaning the fact that Parish was yet another smol midfielder to add to the likes of McGrath and Merit. Now Parish has overtaken them all.
The criticism was always that he was vanilla, not enough of a POD to what else we have.

Nothing like Dow. The criticism about Dow is that he’s not even shown to be AFL standard.

I’m perfectly calm, it’s just a sh*t take and people (who all happen to be Carlton supporters) and trying to double down and pretend it’s not.
 

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Juddernaut08

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 8, 2007
8,430
10,975
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
The criticism was always that he was vanilla, not enough of a POD to what else we have.

Nothing like Dow. The criticism about Dow is that he’s not even shown to be AFL standard.

I’m perfectly calm, it’s just a sh*t take and people (who all happen to be Carlton supporters) and trying to double down and pretend it’s not.
And what was the lack of POD about? It's because you already had a bevy of smol mids.

You went off your rocker taking offence at people mentioning Parish and Dow in the same sentence. You completely missed the point that it was about patience and development. If anything it was more of a compliment to Parish, in that he's what we are hoping for.
 

owen87

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
12,033
15,246
AFL Club
Essendon
And what was the lack of POD about? It's because you already had a bevy of smol mids.

You went off your rocker taking offence at people mentioning Parish and Dow in the same sentence. You completely missed the point that it was about patience and development. If anything it was more of a compliment to Parish, in that he's what we are hoping for.
It was, and remains, a poor comparison.

Parish is what he was from day one, an AFL standard midfielder in a midfield with too many similar types.

Dow hasn’t even demonstrated the AFL standard midfielder part, after 4 years in the system, let alone how he fits in to the team.

One is the opposite of the other.

Pretend I’ve gone off my rocker if you want to somehow make yourself feel better about Dow. It’s simply a bad comparison.

One came in to the AFL and has demonstrated from their very first game they’re up to the level. The other has had 4 seasons and has failed to do so.

It’s about as relevant as comparing Walsh and Dow.
 

JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
20,832
37,766
AFL Club
Carlton
It was, and remains, a poor comparison.

Parish is what he was from day one, an AFL standard midfielder in a midfield with too many similar types.

Dow hasn’t even demonstrated the AFL standard midfielder part, after 4 years in the system, let alone how he fits in to the team.

One is the opposite of the other.

Pretend I’ve gone off my rocker if you want to somehow make yourself feel better about Dow. It’s simply a bad comparison.

One came in to the AFL and has demonstrated from their very first game they’re up to the level. The other has had 4 seasons and has failed to do so.

It’s about as relevant as comparing Walsh and Dow.
Reads like you purposefully have missed the point about player development and insist on making something out of nothing - relax, no one really cares about Dow V anyone including Parish. Carlton supporters are well aware of Dow being a pick#3 and underperforming (so far) based on his 'cost' as far as picks go. Fortunately - it doesn't really matter.
 

RobR

I love Guinness.
Sep 16, 2014
10,675
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Argyle Victoria
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It was, and remains, a poor comparison.

Parish is what he was from day one, an AFL standard midfielder in a midfield with too many similar types.

Dow hasn’t even demonstrated the AFL standard midfielder part, after 4 years in the system, let alone how he fits in to the team.

One is the opposite of the other.

Pretend I’ve gone off my rocker if you want to somehow make yourself feel better about Dow. It’s simply a bad comparison.

One came in to the AFL and has demonstrated from their very first game they’re up to the level. The other has had 4 seasons and has failed to do so.

It’s about as relevant as comparing Walsh and Dow.
Mate you've gone off on the wrong track here and you've been told three times now, he was not comparing Dow and Parish as players. Now sit down shut up and think about it.
 

Kreuuuzeurns

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 25, 2013
6,451
10,497
AFL Club
Carlton
The criticism was always that he was vanilla, not enough of a POD to what else we have.

Nothing like Dow. The criticism about Dow is that he’s not even shown to be AFL standard.

I’m perfectly calm, it’s just a sh*t take and people (who all happen to be Carlton supporters) and trying to double down and pretend it’s not.
Dow’s criticism is his kicking and his lack of a second position. Which we highlighted by playing him on a half forward flank for 2 years.

Leave him in the guts and he’s a clearance machine. Had 4 in 15 minutes on Sunday before the head knock. A bit of a one trick pony as it stands but he has what it takes.

More worried about LOB than Dow.
 

Juddernaut08

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 8, 2007
8,430
10,975
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
It was, and remains, a poor comparison.

Parish is what he was from day one, an AFL standard midfielder in a midfield with too many similar types.

Dow hasn’t even demonstrated the AFL standard midfielder part, after 4 years in the system, let alone how he fits in to the team.

One is the opposite of the other.

Pretend I’ve gone off my rocker if you want to somehow make yourself feel better about Dow. It’s simply a bad comparison.

One came in to the AFL and has demonstrated from their very first game they’re up to the level. The other has had 4 seasons and has failed to do so.

It’s about as relevant as comparing Walsh and Dow.
You're still missing the point. It's time you sat down and listened for once in your life.
 

owen87

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
12,033
15,246
AFL Club
Essendon
Reads like you purposefully have missed the point about player development and insist on making something out of nothing - relax, no one really cares about Dow V anyone including Parish. Carlton supporters are well aware of Dow being a pick#3 and underperforming (so far) based on his 'cost' as far as picks go. Fortunately - it doesn't really matter.
Mate you've gone off on the wrong track here and you've been told three times now, he was not comparing Dow and Parish as players. Now sit down shut up and think about it.
Keep shifting those goal posts. It was a poor comparison, Parish was ready to go from day one so development is a weird line to take.

If you want a player that took a few years of being maligned by supporters try Kyle Langford.
 

RobR

I love Guinness.
Sep 16, 2014
10,675
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Keep shifting those goal posts. It was a poor comparison, Parish was ready to go from day one so development is a weird line to take.

If you want a player that took a few years of being maligned by supporters try Kyle Langford.
Mate i don't think you know where the goal posts are.
 

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JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
20,832
37,766
AFL Club
Carlton
Nope. It was a poor comparison. Sorry.

Seems all the Carlton supporters are up in arms about this. Weird that.
What is weird is the gentle treatment you are getting from a bunch of happy Carlton supporters enjoying a (yet another) win against your mob - despite having to play against the games #1 superstar in Parish - who no doubt will win multiple Brownlows and Norm Smith medals in coming years....

PMSL @ you M7.
 

La Dispute

La Dispute
Jul 14, 2005
14,175
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It was, and remains, a poor comparison.

Parish is what he was from day one, an AFL standard midfielder in a midfield with too many similar types.

Dow hasn’t even demonstrated the AFL standard midfielder part, after 4 years in the system, let alone how he fits in to the team.

One is the opposite of the other.

Pretend I’ve gone off my rocker if you want to somehow make yourself feel better about Dow. It’s simply a bad comparison.

One came in to the AFL and has demonstrated from their very first game they’re up to the level. The other has had 4 seasons and has failed to do so.

It’s about as relevant as comparing Walsh and Dow.
Parish showed no real signs of further development until this year. Basically looked like a player who'd plateaued and could easily be out of the system in a couple of years.

Being 'up to the level' is one thing, but it also means you're expendable if there are players who offer something better or different. Someone like Michael Gibbons has always looked like an AFL standard player, but when you're competing for a spot with other players who are also AFL standard your value in a given team diminishes.

Good on Parish for kicking on after a few mediocre years, but his form this year was by no means guaranteed.
 

Ambrosia

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 11, 2010
12,662
7,479
AFL Club
Essendon
Parish showed no real signs of further development until this year. Basically looked like a player who'd plateaued and could easily be out of the system in a couple of years.
This just isn’t an accurate take on Parish’s production at all and it’s probably overrating his current form.

There’s a lot more too footy than racking up touches and Parish’s current form isn’t really any big leap in development it’s just more opportunity. His kicking is still suspect and still struggles with the defensive side of the game.
 

Soapy V

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 17, 2015
22,333
68,474
AFL Club
Carlton
Keep shifting those goal posts. It was a poor comparison, Parish was ready to go from day one so development is a weird line to take.

If you want a player that took a few years of being maligned by supporters try Kyle Langford.
The comparison was young players take time. That's it. Stop twisting it to be more than it was
 

Soapy V

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 17, 2015
22,333
68,474
AFL Club
Carlton
More worried about LOB than Dow.
Shouldn't be. Both will be fine. Both recruited as very "young" players and would always take time. Poor development, injury and covid last year didn't help either. They are barely 21

I have been really impressed with both this pre season and now into games. Playing a role and look fitter and more mature. FINALLY playing games against quality opposition week in week out in their correct positions.

Dow is ready to play midfield and O'Brien has been working on a couple of things that have improved immensely. That is from the Coaches.

Personally, it's the best and most consistent I have seen him play since he arrived and he looks much more settled. The positive is and what the club wants is he will come in ready, with a good block of football behind him and into a role that suits and allows him to play to his strengths.

One thing about Lochie is he will bring massive improvement to our delivery inside 50.
 

Yoda_

Hall of Famer
May 6, 2007
31,021
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Parish showed no real signs of further development until this year. Basically looked like a player who'd plateaued and could easily be out of the system in a couple of years.

Being 'up to the level' is one thing, but it also means you're expendable if there are players who offer something better or different. Someone like Michael Gibbons has always looked like an AFL standard player, but when you're competing for a spot with other players who are also AFL standard your value in a given team diminishes.

Good on Parish for kicking on after a few mediocre years, but his form this year was by no means guaranteed.
Oh dear...


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