Play Nice Which club has the biggest supporter base? Collingwood, Richmond or West Coast?

[Baird]

Why is Richmond in the title and not Essendon? Even Carlton I reckon has more fans than Richmond

 

[Frank Grimes]

As long as I can remember pies do get favoured heavily with the fixture, prime time slots etc maximising their attendances, you left that out.

The Collingwood supporter base is one reason for the prime time slots, but the other reason is they are simply a high profile club (perhaps the highest profile in Australia) and lot of opposition supporters watch those games to barrack against them.

I think if there was a survey done in Victoria of the club you most hate or see as a rival than Collingwood would like be on top. Just looking at the threads on each Victorian teams board when the subject comes up indicates this.

 

[What else we can do]

Attendances are a very important measure for supporter base so here are some facts No excuses (pre 2017, post 1983, Carlton playing at Princes Park etc..)

Overall Attendances for of all time
1) Collingwood 65,923,906
2) Carlton 58,489,390
3) Essendon 58,293,209
4) Richmond 56,604,034

I have not forgotten the non Vic Clubs.

Overall Averages of all time
1) Adelaide 32,787
2) Collingwood 32,733
3) West Coast Eagles 29,831
4) Carlton 29,041
5) Essendon 28,930
6) Richmond 28,091

Source AFL tables

 

[timokane]

Collingwood still number 1 as in the most widely supported team plus world wide too. I find richmond very centralized in Melbourne and West Coast very Perth focussed. Collingwood look theres always one pie fan in every group.

 

[AstuteTiger]

The Collingwood supporter base is one reason for the prime time slots, but the other reason is they are simply a high profile club (perhaps the highest profile in Australia) and lot of opposition supporters watch those games to barrack against them.

I think if there was a survey done in Victoria of the club you most hate or see as a rival than Collingwood would like be on top. Just looking at the threads on each Victorian teams board when the subject comes up indicates this.

Yes, agree but that's not the point I was making to Dave, the bottom line is when you get prime time slots even when you're not playing well you are extracting higher attendances. And the pies do get it better than anyone else so attendances can be skewed against teams who don't have the same level of favoured fixturing.

 

[dave10]

Attendances are a very important measure for supporter base so here are some facts No excuses (pre 2017, post 1983, Carlton playing at Princes Park etc..)

Overall Attendances for of all time
1) Collingwood 65,923,906
2) Carlton 58,489,390
3) Essendon 58,293,209
4) Richmond 56,604,034

I have not forgotten the non Vic Clubs.

Overall Averages of all time
1) Adelaide 32,787
2) Collingwood 32,733
3) West Coast Eagles 29,831
4) Carlton 29,041
5) Essendon 28,930
6) Richmond 28,091

Source AFL tables

As indicated in an earlier post we put an asterisk on attendances. Princes Park held around 7-8,000 more spectators than Windy Hill and Victoria Park and there’s a big gap between the capacity of Marvel and the MCG. It’s borderline misleading. On attendances there’s absolutely no reason why you wouldn’t have West Coast #1.

 

[dave10]

I do enjoy your posts Dave, but they do tend to somewhat discredit or underplay Richmond’s achievements at every opportunity, so I do need to balance the argument to at least have some level of true comparison.

As I said, I have never participated in dreamteam or supercoach, nor have many of my friends and family, so it doesn't include my data and that of family and friends who are all bona fide members who attend the majority of the games. Using it as a guide by all means but if you’re attempting to try and make out it’s on some form of close comparison to real active support, don’t. I’ll just stick with real active support.

Ahh yes, you do harp on about pre 2017, but you fail to take into account that Richmond had no success compared to the pies (7 GF's and 2 flags) & bombers (7 GF's and 4 flags) and to a lesser extent the blues (5 GF's) winning 2 flags in 1987 and 1995 and were runners up in 1986, 1993, 1999.

Ditto, how could you compare pies being bigger than Richmond before 2017, there was no true measuring stick. You said it was a one-way street, of course, it was, as you’re comparing the pies to a very bad Richmond. In the 34 years up to 2016, we played in 5 finals series and didn’t make finals for the other 29 years, I repeat 3 decades of no finals. Pies as stated in the same period had played in 7 GF’s and won 2 flags.

Playing in GF’s and consistently in finals gives you advantages as Richmond is experiencing now.
As long as I can remember pies do get favoured heavily with the fixture, prime time slots etc maximising their attendances, you left that out.

Between 2010-2018, pies played in 4 GF’s (won a flag), 2 X runners up and a draw. Don’t make out like they had a decade of no finals to compare to Richmond 2017-onwards

Let’s say bombers had not won a flag or played in a GF since 83’, would you have the same level of support as you do now? Of course not. Success breeds more support.

I agree that the bombers haven’t had a big injection in winning a flag of late, when you do, this will show how much more you can extract in not only your crowds & memberships but your social media numbers too. Atm, it’s all hearsay, maybe a strong hunch, but as you said time will tell.

Whilst I’m sure you’re popular, you and your friends and family represent maybe 20-30 people? SuperCoach was over 300,000 participants and was sourced from NewsCorp major daily newspapers in all states. It’s much stronger than those Morgan polls. A national survey at worst reflecting active AND non active support. Support no less. Yes it has its limitations but so do memberships and attendance. Richmond can draw 50-70,000 at the MCG every year 5 imes more than Essendon and 4 times more than Carlton. Essendon can’t get more than 45,000 into a home game there. They play 7 home games. Over the course of a season that could be between 50-100,000 aggregated attendance.

Equalising Stadium inequality, Essendon would’ve been the #1 ranked drawing club in 2017 comfortably. And that’s the point. Attendance is not a great metric for comparing active support whilst membership is better but geared somewhat to on field performance. Certainly premiership success.

There’s no perfect metric in the end. Lots of strong but imperfect guides.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Whilst I’m sure you’re popular, you and your friends and family represent maybe 20-30 people? SuperCoach was over 300,000 participants and was sourced from NewsCorp major daily newspapers in all states. It’s much stronger than those Morgan polls. A national survey at worst reflecting active AND non active support. Support no less. Yes it has its limitations but so do memberships and attendance. Richmond can draw 50-70,000 at the MCG every year 5 imes more than Essendon and 4 times more than Carlton. Essendon can’t get more than 45,000 into a home game there. They play 7 home games. Over the course of a season that could be between 50-100,000 aggregated attendance.

Equalising Stadium inequality, Essendon would’ve been the #1 ranked drawing club in 2017 comfortably. And that’s the point. Attendance is not a great metric for comparing active support whilst membership is better but geared somewhat to on field performance. Certainly premiership success.

There’s no perfect metric in the end. Lots of strong but imperfect guides.

The only things that are factual are Memberships and attendences. The rest be it supercoach numbers, Facebook/Instagram numbers, Polls, TV ratings can all be out by as far as 50%.
TV Ratings for example are probably the least accurate measure available and I cannot believe in this technological society we live in that TV stations don't actually factually know who is tuned in to their product. They are still guessing with a system from the 60's or 70's.

 

[AstuteTiger]

Whilst I’m sure you’re popular, you and your friends and family represent maybe 20-30 people? SuperCoach was over 300,000 participants and was sourced from NewsCorp major daily newspapers in all states. It’s much stronger than those Morgan polls. A national survey at worst reflecting active AND non active support. Support no less. Yes it has its limitations but so do memberships and attendance. Richmond can draw 50-70,000 at the MCG every year 5 imes more than Essendon and 4 times more than Carlton. Essendon can’t get more than 45,000 into a home game there. They play 7 home games. Over the course of a season that could be between 50-100,000 aggregated attendance.

Equalising Stadium inequality, Essendon would’ve been the #1 ranked drawing club in 2017 comfortably. And that’s the point. Attendance is not a great metric for comparing active support whilst membership is better but geared somewhat to on field performance. Certainly premiership success.

There’s no perfect metric in the end. Lots of strong but imperfect guides.

Appreciate the reply and explanation re the possible difference in crowd aggregate from mcg to marvel but the point I was making was I'm a genuine paid-up active supporter who attends games, as are my family and friends and god knows how many others that don't participate in supercoach and dreamteam which inturn are nowhere to be seen in these survey numbers.

How does west coast fare in SC and DT? I see eagles more attending games and buying memberships than participating in these types of surveys and their social media numbers are so so.

I agree with greatwhiteshark that Memberships and Attendances are factual, imo the highest measuring stick.

 

[What else we can do]

As indicated in an earlier post we put an asterisk on attendances. Princes Park held around 7-8,000 more spectators than Windy Hill and Victoria Park and there’s a big gap between the capacity of Marvel and the MCG. It’s borderline misleading. On attendances there’s absolutely no reason why you wouldn’t have West Coast #1.

As I pointed out no excuses (Carlton playing at PP till 2005 etc..) Overall more reliable than picking a period of time, I see the same clubs at the top when looking at attendances and averages no one is disadvantaged.

 

[bzparkes]

Collingwood still number 1 as in the most widely supported team plus world wide too. I find richmond very centralized in Melbourne and West Coast very Perth focussed. Collingwood look theres always one pie fan in every group.

I don't know what Melbourne's like but youd be surprised at the amount of people who support WCE outside of Perth and Vic

 

[What else we can do]

The only things that are factual are Memberships and attendences. The rest be it supercoach numbers, Facebook/Instagram numbers, Polls, TV ratings can all be out by as far as 50%.
TV Ratings for example are probably the least accurate measure available and I cannot believe in this technological society we live in that TV stations don't actually factually know who is tuned in to their product. They are still guessing with a system from the 60's or 70's.

TV ratings are a metric that is measured by clubs it is included in every clubs annual report. From the 1970's till now the same clubs occupy the biggest ratings Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon and Richmond. It is not perfect but it is important to sponsors and ratings.

 

[dave10]

Appreciate the reply and explanation re the possible difference in crowd aggregate from mcg to marvel but the point I was making was I'm a genuine paid-up active supporter who attends games, as are my family and friends and god knows how many others that don't participate in supercoach and dreamteam which inturn are nowhere to be seen in these survey numbers.

How does west coast fare in SC and DT? I see eagles more attending games and buying memberships than participating in these types of surveys and their social media numbers are so so.

I agree with greatwhiteshark that Memberships and Attendances are factual, imo the highest measuring stick.

West Coast we’re 3rd in SuperCoach and Dreamteam.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

TV ratings are a metric that is measured by clubs it is included in every clubs annual report. From the 1970's till now the same clubs occupy the biggest ratings Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon and Richmond. It is not perfect but it is important to sponsors and ratings.

How is it possible to be using a metric that could be out by as much as 50% in todays world.
I almost get the feeling the reason they are still using these ratings systems is because the truth might be miles from what they want it to be.
I agree it is being used as an important tool by the clubs and the AFL but surely we the public know it’s a very fake number either high or low. They don’t know who is watching.

 

[The_Wookie]

How is it possible to be using a metric that could be out by as much as 50% in todays world.

Where did you pull this 50% from?

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Where did you pull this 50% from?

Just a guess mate, it could 100% out, it could be 5% out.
Based on how many ratings boxes are in Australia it is like me guessing what you and your neighbours had for breakfast this morning.

 

[What else we can do]

How is it possible to be using a metric that could be out by as much as 50% in todays world.
I almost get the feeling the reason they are still using these ratings systems is because the truth might be miles from what they want it to be.
I agree it is being used as an important tool by the clubs and the AFL but surely we the public know it’s a very fake number either high or low. They don’t know who is watching.

It's not perfect and clubs know this I agree with you it can be 50% wrong either way. Take my club Carlton for example they had a total average of 900,000 viewers free to air and subscription in 2011 or 12 from memory. You take 50% off that and its 450,000 viewers that is still a massive number.

Take my elderly parents for example both elderly don't go to the footy anymore both love Richmond and watch every game on TV. They would have to be included in the Richmond supporter base through Tv ratings and the merchandise they give me money to buy for them (scarfs, facewashers and bath towels)

 

[AstuteTiger]

It's not perfect and clubs know this I agree with you it can be 50% wrong either way. Take my club Carlton for example they had a total average of 900,000 viewers free to air and subscription in 2011 or 12 from memory. You take 50% off that and its 450,000 viewers that is still a massive number.

Take my elderly parents for example both elderly don't go to the footy anymore both love Richmond and watch every game on TV. They would have to be included in the Richmond supporter base through Tv ratings and the merchandise they give me money to buy for them (scarfs, facewashers and bath towels)

Bro how the heck aren't you a Richmond supporter, when both your parents follow the yellow and black. Growing up, if I dared say any other team, my dad had the suitcase ready

I do recall using that tactic on my little nephew, was at my sisters house perhaps at the time he was 8 years old (now just turned 21), we were bad as you know and other kids mentioning to go for other teams, I said you can pick another team but you will have to leave the house ill get your suitcase, I pretended to go get it and he started to cry I know its cruel but needed to keep the family wearing the yellow and black.
He has now reaped the rewards by celebrating the tiger's success, attending 2 GF's 2017 & 2019 and watching on TV the 2020 Gabba GF

My little ones were born into Tiger success and have attended the GF's at only a few years old. I literally had to wait for 3 decades+ to see real success.

 

[What else we can do]

Bro how the heck aren't you a Richmond supporter, when both your parents follow the yellow and black. Growing up, if I dared say any other team, my dad had the suitcase ready

I do recall using that tactic on my little nephew, was at my sisters house perhaps at the time he was 8 years old (now just turned 21), we were bad as you know and other kids mentioning to go for other teams, I said you can pick another team but you will have to leave the house ill get your suitcase, I pretended to go get it and he started to cry I know its cruel but needed to keep the family wearing the yellow and black.
He has now reaped the rewards by celebrating the tiger's success, attending 2 GF's 2017 & 2019 and watching on TV the 2020 Gabba GF

My little ones were born into Tiger success and have attended the GF's at only a few years old. I literally had to wait for 3 decades+ to see real success.

My Dad was more strict in raising us to be proud of our Croatian background language, culture, traditions and Melbourne Croatia soccer club. My Mum does mention it that my older siblings and myself were put under the evil spell of Carlton and we should of been Richmond supporters.

The best day I had recently with Mum and Dad was the 2017 PF I had not seen Dad so happy to see Richmond win(I was born in 79). My parents have fond memories of the late 60's till 1980 but all they did was work and raise a family they did not enjoy it as much as the last 5 years.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Bears repeating once again.

the purest test is attendance at a big final against GWS at the MCG

Currently richmond > Pies by 10-20% on that pure metric

WCE can’t be measured on that metric unfortunately

 

[beema limapep]

Why is Richmond in the title and not Essendon? Even Carlton I reckon has more fans than Richmond

Bees dont waste their time explaining to flies why honey is better than crap.

 

[Baird]

59 pages suggests otherwise

 

[beema limapep]

59 pages suggests otherwise

Ok Dunny Budgie

 

[Jack Green]

As a kid growing up and going to the footy in the 70's , it was always Collingwood - Essendon second. Been to games in Perth but cant comment on the West Coast situation cause I don't live there.
Pies fans are still all over the place and you regularly meet them . They are in for some lean years now , so their membership and crowds won't reflect this in the coming years I suspect. Richmond obviously a huge supporter base but were never in the same ball park as the Pies over 30 years ago . Amazing what success does however.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Richmond have possibly the most engaged supporter base in the AFL. The Tigers did a great job taking their fans on a journey when Gale arrived as CEO. This was franked into the clubs membership. I believe it has been more successful than Collingwood in converting its total fanbase to members. This is in part the result of the Pies having more wider national support which is hard to convert to membership for obvious reasons. Ditto Essendon and Carlton to a degree.

In my view the breadth of Tigers support doesn’t match Collingwood’s. My point was I think it’s misleading to quote membership figures in a cheap flyby attack on the Pies support.

Even after the three peat, most metrics of club support still point to the Pies having a deeper and larger following than Richmond. Some of the metrics that are sensitive to on field performance have the Tigers on top. Attendances are misleading due to stadium capacity variances and fixture advantages so exclude this.

No issue with your contributions. You come with facts. I disagree with your stance but at least you come with facts to support your position.

The impact of Richmond’s threepeat will continue to grow over the next 25-40 years. The reason Richmond was such a ‘sleeping giant’ is because of middle aged supporters like me who were Tiger supporting kids in the ‘glory years’ from 1967-1980, with kids now aged 5-30yo who were Tiger supporters but these Tiger families had only known failure and misery. So as soon as success came there was a dormant supporter base there.

So now those 5-30yo ‘kids’ have seen success in 2017-20 so further entrench the Tiger supporting families.

It’s the same reason the Hawks success of the 1980’s never really showed in memberships or money until the 2000’s. With 2013-15 further entrenching those Hawk families.

It’s where the Blues need to make sure they avoid missing a generation. That’s what kills the supporter base. They’ve still got time to take advantage of the 1987-1995 flags, but time is running out as if you miss giving success to the teenagers they’ll follow other sports and lose their passion for AFL.


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