- Oct 9, 2003
- 45,029
- 42,842
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Other Teams
- Eagles (NFL), Suns (NBA)
Giants have the best list to be the first. But I'm not convinced Leon is the bloke to deliver them a flag.
Opinion Which club will become the next to win their first flag?
- Thread starter GC2015
- Start date
- Tagged users None
I'll go with the Giants because I admit they seem like a decently-run club, meanwhile Gold Coast and Freo are the modern St Kilda (just never seem to catch a break).
- May 3, 2007
- 36,610
- 21,198
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
Harsh but true about the dockers.
Yeah they had got a blue print of making 3 preliminary finals by 2025. If it included the ladies Side then fair enough.
But freo will be lucky to make a preliminary final once between 2022-2025.
Happy for freo to have a 2-4 year run of elimination finals and hoping for a finals win or 2 from 2022-25.
Osho
Time is not linear, when we're here in your car.
- Jul 9, 2021
- 5,596
- 5,068
- AFL Club
- GWS
I was having a bit of fun really, Freo look to be on the right track, takes time though.
Freo actually have come the closest
15 points 2013 grand final
Minor premiers and prelim in 2015
15 points 2013 grand final
Minor premiers and prelim in 2015
Gimmeafree
Cancelled
- Sep 21, 2021
- 1,054
- 2,602
- AFL Club
- Sydney
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- No other team, no other sport
Out of the 4 clubs, does it really matter if none of us will be alive to see it ?
- Thread starter
- #34
Good pick up. OP corrected to 13 years.
I could understand if you made the argument about Port Adelaide winning their first SANFL flag in 1884 because it is actually the same club as the one competing in the AFL today but to suggest the old Fremantle Footy Club (that actually started as a rugby club) is in any way related to the Dockers or that the Dockers should assume their records is ridiculous. The Crows can't claim the Adelaide Football Club's (1860-1893, SAFA) 1886 premiership either. There was also a Brisbane Football Club between 1866-1887 and they claimed their first QAFA premiership in 1881 but we're not giving that premiership to the Lions.
May as well point out that there was also a Sydney Football Club that existed from 1881-1954 and they claimed their first premiership in 1880s too. Sorry Swans fans, you can't claim this either.
- May 3, 2007
- 36,610
- 21,198
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
Only made finals in 7 out of 27 years. Not great isn't it?
As i said hoping freo make finals in 2022 and 2023.
Got very low expectations. I would be happy if freo makes finals 10 years out of the next 30. I just hope there's a couple of 2-3 year periods of finals in that period.
st kilda far more likely to win their second before any of these clubs win one. and that's not something i'm expecting to see anytime soon.
Yardie
Premiership Player
- Feb 6, 2004
- 4,182
- 8,802
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- Hawthorn
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- Hawthorn
You don't know your Fremantle History too well. The Dockers were established because of East and South Fremantle teams (the term Derby comes from the clashes between those teams). East and South Fremantle were established because Fremantle was so dominant that the league split that team into two teams. So yes, they do have a history that spans back to that team.
However, the AFL has decided that the VFL premierships are counted so it is all a bit moot. We could look at when the AFL was established in 1990 and include St Kilda.
- Thread starter
- #38
Do you know your Fremantle history? The original Fremantle Football Club competed in the WAFA until the end of 1898 when they were forced to disband due to large amounts of debt and the South Fremantle Football Club was subsequently formed where most of their players headed for the 1899 WAFA season. The East Fremantle Football Club was already competing in the WAFA in 1898 when the original Fremantle Football Club still existed. This splitting into two teams that you speak of did not occur. Also, none of these three clubs are the Fremantle Dockers so I don't know where you're going with that.
Why do some people have such a big problem with recognising premiers of the VFL/AFL prior to the 90s? I understand there was more than one major football league in the country back then but to attempt to completely erase the history of the VFL/AFL competition prior to the 90s feels wrong. It would be like claiming 12 of the Boston Celtics' 16 championships in the 1950-70s didn't count because they occurred prior to the NBA-ABA merger. The fact of the matter is the AFL competition is a continuation of the VFL competition. Now if a team like Essendon started claiming they had actually won 20 Premierships because of the four flags they won in the VFA prior to entering the VFL/AFL competition then I would say that's wrong and it's the equivalent of Port Adelaide attempting to claim that their SANFL flags should be counted.
It was the VFL. A vastly different competition.
Why do some people have such a big problem acknowledging football was played anywhere other than in Victoria?
Seems hypocritical to me.
- Thread starter
- #40
The VFL prior to 1982 when South Melbourne moved to Sydney was obviously very different to the 2021 iteration of the league but these changes were progressive and if you were to compare the league in 1986 to say 1987 then you would find it really wasn't that different, they just had two extra teams in Perth and Brisbane. The league was still called the VFL and the vast majority of games were still being playing in Melbourne every week. People act like 1990 was the turning point for the league in going 'national' but nothing actually changed from 1989 to 1990 other than the name of the league. The Crows weren't admitted until 1991 but even that was just one extra team in Adelaide when compared to any of the seasons in the 1987-1990 period. 11 of the 15 (73%) teams that competed in the 1991 season were still based in Victoria.
I don't have an issue with acknowledging football was played at a high level outside of Victoria prior to the 90s. In fact, I would argue the AFL also recognises this through their Hall of Fame inductees, which includes players who never competed in the VFL/AFL like Stephen Michael (South Fremantle), George Doig (East Fremantle), Ken Farmer (North Adelaide) and Michael Aish (Norwood) to name a few.
It doesn't change the fact that the modern day AFL is a continuation of the old VFL competition and therefore assumes all its historical records. This isn't a situation like the English Premier League where a brand new league was started in 1992 that was separate from the 104 years of the First Division competition prior to '92. They actually distinguish between Premier League records and records prior to the Premier League being established because they are two separate competitions. That's not the case with the AFL, the league simply changed its name from VFL to AFL in 1990 but was still a continuation of the same competition and assumed all the records set prior to 1990.
I think we are basically on the same page. This is really the only point I was making. It was a suburban league, just like the WAFL or SANFL.
Including VFL records as AFL records isn't comparing apples to apples. Either start your comparison when the current iteration began (2009) or 1990 if you want to use the AFL branding date.
- Thread starter
- #42
The VFL was undeniably a suburban league prior to 1982 and since then it has progressively become less of a suburban league and more of a national league. However, there is no identifiable date that suggests it switched from suburban to national, which is what I think you're seeking. Some could even argue that the league is still suburban due to there being more Victorian teams than non-Victorian teams.
But what made the 1990 season any more significant than 1989? The league had the exact same amount of teams in the exact same cities in 1989 & 1990. Surely you're not suggesting a name change alone was an indication that the league suddenly became national and therefore only records set after 1990 were worth recording... If you are suggesting that then we are absolutely not on the same page.
If we start going down that road then it opens the door for all kinds of theories like Hawthorn fans getting up in arms about excluding any flags won before they entered the league in 1925. That would exclude 6 premierships for Essendon, 5 premierships for Carlton, 5 premierships for Collingwood, 2 premierships for Richmond and 1 premiership for Melbourne; meaning Hawthorn would stand alone at the top of the premiership ladder with 13 flags. In fact, if you were to only count flags won from 1990 onward then Hawthorn would also stand alone at the top of the premiership ladder with 5 flags. The Hawks are also equal first with Richmond if you want to start from 2012 when the most recent expansion club was introduced. That probably sounds terrific to Hawthorn fans but most AFL fans wouldn't be happy if the league adopted any of those mindsets.
The AFL is the continuation of the VFL and therefore all records since it was started in 1897 should be counted IMO. Your club wanted to enter the league knowing full well it had nearly 100 years of history that preceded the Fremantle Dockers. You can't then retrospectively start saying nothing prior to an arbitrary date that fits my agenda is worth counting.
Why not? The op has given Brisbane 5 premierships but has them starting in 1997. You can’t have it both ways
You joined. We didn’t join you. If we had then you could decide the terms and conditions, but we didn’t. And other than the money men nobody here would care if you left...
But you won’t do that will you? Because you know that without the VFL you wouldn’t exist. That’s the reality. So either embrace the whole history or go back to playing park footy as we draft your best kids
which ever way you cut it, a suburban league is not a national competition.
We had teams in other states long before you joined. Long before the letter change.
But do what you have to do. Leave if you want. Nobody will miss you. But if you stay don’t be stupid about it. You joined the VFL and that’s where you are. The VFL with a couple of extra sides and a letter change
I’ll tell you lot what, eh. I’ll come and rent a room in your house. I’ll pay good money but after a couple of days I’m going to demand you burn your photos. And your wedding DVD. And any keepsakes you have pre me moving in.
That planet
