That's actually a fair call.
Let's make it 8, so equal to the number I provided for Daicos.
Any others?
I'll do further analysis tonight to find the required additional games to keep Daicos ahead.
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Banter Who will be Better in 2025, Collingwood or Carlton? Part 4
- Thread starter Wosh
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Let's make it 8, so equal to the number I provided for Daicos.
Any others?
I'll do further analysis tonight to find the required additional games to keep Daicos ahead.
- Oct 4, 2018
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Maybe you just have superior memory recall abilities to me or you are relying heavily on stats. I can barely remember what I had for breakfast yesterday and you expect me to remember all the games Cripps was a deciding factor in the win in his career.
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- Oct 4, 2018
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Yes with takes like "Ned Long would get a regular game at Carlton" you are my go to for Carlton analysis!
- Mar 25, 2019
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I gave you 20, if you'd like to shift the goal posts to fluff pieces in the match reports saying how good they were in a win I can easily go find more
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Logically he can be your best player, a constant if you will, and not win you games.
Buckley suffered from this issue especially 1998-2001. He was rarely below his best, but the support cast was poor so we lost a lot. Our wins came when another player bobbed up for a great game.
If you're gasping for "matchwinner" as a title you need to define it better, because guys can be matchwinners by bobbing up for a five minute blitz. Its not some absolute value on a scale with ranks like GOAT, part timer and but player. It a nice turn of speech.
As mentioned, Cripps mostly plays the role of carrying Carlton close, only to have others not turn up.
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Let's not forget
Cox > Walsh
Quaynor > Saad
Long + Macrae > Kennedy + Owies
Sidebottom > Acres
The list could go on forever
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If you are solely basing "matchwinning ability" on performances in the last 5 minutes of close games then that is your right. If that was the definition I wouldn't classify many players in the game as matchwinners. However, my belief is a matchwinner is a player who puts in a performance that without which that team likely would not have won the game or it would have been 50/50. This is why I have the likes of Cripps, Daicos, Bontempelli, Heeney, Cameron, Curnow etc as matchwinners in my eyes. They don't just do it for 5 minutes they have put their teams on their back for four quarters to deliver a win.
Cripps was best on ground (which is what you and your Bagger mates think also means they were a match-winner) in Rd23 of 2022.
He couldn't possibly be considered the match winner, as Carlton didn't win the match.
Yep. Again the important part of being known as a match winner is the winning part.
Cripps has played a shit load of great games, but not many where he has imposed himself on a close game in Q4 and been the difference.
Rattling off games when Cripps was BOG isn't the same as when he is a match winner.
Daicos burning Walsh and kicking the winning goal against Carlton is an example where Daicos was the match winner.
Daicos is special, a match-winner, not many players impose themselves in close games as much as he does.
- Oct 4, 2018
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Please stop putting words in my mouth. No where have I said any BOG performance is a matchwinning performance.
I was critiquing your AFL ratings/team record analysis which makes very little sense when comparing individual players' matchwinning ability as you did with Cripps Vs Daicos/Neale/Bont etc.
- Mar 25, 2019
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No I gave a list of 20 and you simply dismissed 13 (now 12) without reason being given.
If you'd like to explain why each were dismissed I'd gladly accept your findings. So long as theres an actual reason lmao
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who were the 'matchwinners' in the 2024 grand final?
- Oct 4, 2018
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So if Cripps plays a great four quarter game and because of that game we win by 4-5 goals that is not a matchwinning performance (i.e., Vs Adelaide RD19 2019). Even though the game likely would have been a toss up or loss if he had not played the four quarters the way he did.
But if Cripps didn't give us much for 3.5 quarters and that is one of the main reasons the game was close. And then he plays a great last 15 minutes and gets us across the line (i.e., Vs Port Adelaide RD12 2024) that is a matchwinning performance.
Am I getting that right?
Pie supporters waffle on about non measurable topics such as contenders and match winners, yet have won 3 flag in 60 odd years
Minnows
Minnows
- Oct 25, 2001
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"Only 1963-1995 matters, nothing else" measurable topics, you've measurably failed this millennium. But hey, you were big when there were only 3 clubs.
It's a fun game isn't it
Both sets of supporters need new material, or perhaps we could focus on 2025
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Which one is deemed more of a matchwinning performance by the peanut gallery I wonder?
Rd 12 2024 vs Port - 22d, 9cp, 3cl, 11si, 2gls (9 touches, 2 goals in the last quarter)
Rd 19 2019 vs Ade - 39d, 24cp, 19cl, 8si, 1gl (8 touches, 0 goals in the last quarter)
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- Oct 4, 2018
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I was at the RD19 game in 2019 and is still one of the most special performances I have seen. Literally turned into Superman
- Mar 25, 2019
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As was I. One of the best individual performances I've ever seen from a midfielder.
But according to their logic his 22 touches vs Port would be more of a 'match winning performance
No, that is a fair call as well.
So now we're up to 9.
Nice work. Seems you guys are now starting to understand what constitutes a matchwinner, and what doesn't...
I've now got two more matchwinning efforts to find from Daicos tonight. Shouldn't be too difficult.
Any others?
- Mar 25, 2019
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All 20. Unless you're going to tell us why each of them are dismissed all 20 remain.
So far you've just said I accept this amount of them because...?
Brisbane's effort in the 2024 Grand Final was a great team effort, one in which you couldn't really highlight a matchwinner, or matchwinners.
At a stretch, it was Lohmann who separated the game early with his two steadying goals, backing up from his matchwinning performance a week earlier.
Now there's another player who I expect will be more of a 'matchwinner' throughout his career than Cripps has been over his...
Neale was great. So too Ashcroft and Ah Chee.
But none really considered 'matchwinners', such was Brisbane's team dominance.
- Mar 25, 2019
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Still waiting for an explanation re purging the other 11 of the 20 games listed...
When are we getting it Fudger?
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