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I smell another poll 
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AFLW 2025 - AFLW Trade and Draft - All the player moves
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Who will be better in 2025 - Geelong or Hawthorn?
- Thread starter Black Haze
- Start date
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I may be in the minority here but I'm taking Newcombe over Holmes. I also think Newcombe would be the perfect fit given we have enough outside runners in the current team.
Not to mention, Holmes will never correct his average foot skills. Both players have just about reached their ceiling. Probably bit more polish to come in Newcombe's game now he has finished developing into his frame.
Not to mention, Holmes will never correct his average foot skills. Both players have just about reached their ceiling. Probably bit more polish to come in Newcombe's game now he has finished developing into his frame.
- Nov 12, 2014
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**** me he's not a far better player enough with your hyperbolic bullshit. Newcombe has to work on his week to week consistency. What affected it this year was the fact we didn't have Day for most of it. He's best level is elite like he produced in 2 finals, if your saying Holmes is better than that level you have rocks in your head. Better than elite not sure what level that is, a made up level from yourself.
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- Nov 12, 2014
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Wrong thread. 2026 thread
- Mar 25, 2019
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Aaron Hall had elite highs too. Was he an 'elite player'?
Newcombe averages 23 touches, 6 clearances and 0.4 goals a game. He isn't close to an elite player.
Holmes isn't in the very top bracket of players imo, but he's still considerably better than Newcombe at this stage of their careers.
- Mar 25, 2019
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Can you please explain how 23 touches Jai is an 'elite player' or in the same tier as Holmes in 2025?
Other than having a few good finals...
- Mar 25, 2019
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- Nov 12, 2014
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You will be waiting a while I'm not engaging with somebody who's as disingenuous as you.
- Mar 25, 2019
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I dislike the Cats more than I dislike the Hawks so I'm not sure why you'd assume I'm being disingenuous... Not going to change the fact that Holmes is a considerably better player than Newcombe and that Newcombe isn't an elite player which is clear as day to all but Hawks nuffs.
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
Name | ||
Team | ||
Midfield | Position | Defender, Midfield |
102 | Career Games | 102 |
Box Hill | Origin | Sandringham Dragons |
August 2, 2001 | Date of Birth | August 29, 2002 |
24yr 4mth | Age | 23yr 3mth |
187cm | Height | 190cm |
Last Drafted In | ||
Round 1, Pick #2 | Last Draft Position | Round 1, Pick #20 |
Last Drafted By | ||
Career | Stats for Season | Career |
102 | Games | 102 |
10.5 | Kicks | 12.3 |
12.3 | Handballs | 8.3 |
22.8 | Disposals | 20.6 |
3.9 | Marks | 4.3 |
0.4 | Goals | 0.5 |
0.3 | Behinds | 0.3 |
4.6 | Tackles | 3.2 |
0 | Hitouts | 0 |
3.8 | Inside 50s | 4.1 |
0.6 | Goal Assists | 0.5 |
1.5 | Frees For | 0.7 |
1.5 | Frees Against | 0.7 |
10.4 | Contested Possessions | 7.7 |
12.9 | Uncontested Possessions | 12.5 |
16.7 | Effective Disposals | 13.9 |
73.2% | Disposal Efficiency % | 67.5% |
3.9 | Clangers | 3.2 |
0.3 | Contested Marks | 0.2 |
0.3 | Marks Inside 50 | 0.3 |
5.2 | Clearances | 3.0 |
1.5 | Rebound 50s | 2.3 |
1.0 | One Percenters | 1.1 |
0.5 | Bounces | 1.5 |
78.9 | Time On Ground % | 73.5 |
2.2 | Centre Clearances | 1.3 |
3.0 | Stoppage Clearances | 1.8 |
5.8 | Score Involvements | 4.9 |
340.3 | Metres Gained | 442.4 |
3.6 | Turnovers | 4.4 |
2.7 | Intercepts | 3.7 |
0.5 | Tackles Inside 50 | 0.3 |
| 1 | Best & Fairest medals | 2 |
- Nov 12, 2014
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You notoriously don't engage in good faith your a perennial shit stirrer but just to enlighten your point of view put it to any poster on here and see if they actually agree Holmes is miles better than Newcombe.
- Mar 25, 2019
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As a genuine question to you... If you were presented this to compare two players season outputs who would you pick?
On the left is an unknown player, not Max Holmes to make sure its relatively neutral.
On the right is Jai Newcombe
Who's your pick of the two?
- Nov 12, 2014
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Great way to dodge what I asked. I think you know the answer.
- Mar 25, 2019
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The answer is the one on the left obviously had a better season. A player just about nobody would consider an A grader or 'elite'.
As I said, Newcombe is a glorified George Hewett only because the Hawks have no other genuine quality in their midfield outside of made of glass Day. Holmes would waltz into that team and instantly be their best player.
Was going to quote your whole series of posts on how Newcombe is not close to elite, George Hewett-esque, miles behind Holmes, etc.
Newcombe was recruited 4 and half seasons ago.
Over the last 4 seasons, he has amassed 70 Brownlow votes and 220 Coaches votes. Despite it being the very beginning of his career, that places him top 15 in the league in both of those awards over nearly half a decade.
I would say top 15 in the main league wide performance awards is in the vicinity of elite. Add to that that he has averaged the most coaches votes in finals of any player of that timeframe as well -and has B&F's, AA squads, etc.
By contrast, George Hewett has MUCH less in both of these awards (Brownlow much less than half) in 12 seasons of football! (in his first 4 years he collected a total of 0 Brownlow votes and 3 Coaches votes). That's why Geroge Hewett is not considered elite - 11 years of sub elite performance prior to a very decent 2025.
Over the same span (they debuted the same year), Max Holmes has 177 Coaches votes and 31 Brownlow votes. I rate Max Holmes very highly but there is clearly not miles between him and Newcombe.
(But sure, let's use possession average instead and I'll show you how Tom Mitchell is the greatest of all time and Tom Rockliff is better that Chris Judd)
You dont make a prelim if your midfield lacks quality. Also newcombe is elite and had a very good final series
- Jul 16, 2013
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If the Hawks can get Day right then Newcombe will go to another level I reckon.
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- Mar 25, 2019
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Nope, just that Newcombe is not in the actual 'elite' bracket of players. He's in the tier below along with players like George Hewett in 2025. Holmes on the other hand is a genuine A grader.
100%, Newcombe will likely play more forward at times too, the intention was always to have both rotating forward. He’ll be that genuine mid-fwd game breaker.
- Mar 25, 2019
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Smushing together a bunch of random stats from the last 4 years doesn't really mean anything without proper context. Facts are Newcombe has never produced a proper A grade season, since he arrived in the league he's always been a tier or two below the elite of the competition. Holmes elevated himself into the tier above in 2025 while Newcombe maintained his level.
Just because you can’t comprehend something doesn’t mean it’s “random stats” but no disposals per game matter so much
without context…Newcombe is levels ahead of Hewett and him and Holmes are around the same.
- Mar 25, 2019
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Based on what? In 2025 Holmes had considerably more coaches votes, finished higher in his clubs BnF than Newcombe (in a team that made the Grand Final with tougher competition in Cameron, Smith etc), more Brownlow votes (Smith and Cameron had more votes than either) and had considerably better statistical output for the season.Just because you can’t comprehend something doesn’t mean it’s “random stats” but no disposals per game matter so much
Newcombe is levels ahead of Hewett and him and Holmes are around the same.
In 2025 Holmes went well past players like Newcombe and Hewett who reside in the tier below the genuine A graders of the competition. Perhaps 2026 will be the year Newcombe puts it all together... Until then those are just the facts of the matter.
Coaches votes and Brownlow votes are not random stats - they are the league wide performance-based awards that our competition has - and are of particular relevance to midfielders. They certainly suggest more about a players standing/influence than average number of possessions. I would suggest top 15-20 mids in the game over an extended period constitutes A grade but you clearly have a problem with longitudinal analysis and want to view players in singe season isolation (which is obviously the only way George Hewett's name could be brought up).
Taking your lead (i.e. single season view), however...
In 2023, Newcombe finished 15th in the Brownlow, 17th in the Coaches award and made the AA squad. He finished comfortably ahead of Holmes in all metrics and collected the same number of Brownlow votes as Holmes best ever season and matched his best ever AA result.
In 2024, Newcombe finished top 10 in the Brownlow (25% more votes than Holmes has ever received), won the B&F, came 2nd in the Gary Ayers medal (from less games, more votes than Holmes has ever received) and finished 15th in the Coaches award.
In 2025, Newcombe dropped away a little with reduced midfield support (and further increased attention of dedicated taggers) but still finished top 20 in the Brownlow (1 vote behind Holmes) and 3rd in the Gary Ayers Medal with 2 clear finals BOG's and the most votes per game of any player.
I suppose it depends how you define 'A grade' but that's at least 2 (if not 3) seasons amongst the top 15 or so midfielders in the comp by all reasonable metrics. It also at least matches what Holmes has produced in his career so far. In fact, if you include 2022 as well (Newcombe won the AFLCA young player of the year and collected 4 x as many Coaches votes and 3 x as many BL votes), it's pretty clear that it's 3-1 in Newcombe's favour over the 4 full seasons they've played together. My main argument was against the notion that Newcombe is nowhere near 'A-Grade' but there's also no reasonable conclusion that "Holmes is miles ahead" in performance over their careers to date.
