Who will be the best midfielder from 2015?

[Trav 20]

Oliver.

I've never been more certain on a player in my life.

Best hands I've ever seen at the Dees and I've been watching a long time.

 

[SCRAY72]

Oliver.

I've never been more certain on a player in my life.

Best hands I've ever seen at the Dees and I've been watching a long time.

Better hands than Robbie Flower?

 

[Trav 20]

Better hands than Robbie Flower?

Yes.

Robbie is my all-time favourite player, but obviously very different to Oliver.

Oliver's hands and ability to dish off under pressure in close is beyond anything I've seen at the Dee's.

Flower obviously was an outside player, so the comparison doesn't make a lot of sense. Inside v outside, although Flower was very courageous and I don't want "outside" to sound derogatory, because it's not.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Oliver for me. Really liked the sound of him going into the draft (sounded like a "complete-package" type, with size, competitiveness, speed, skill, versatility, tackling game) and then once I heard how he went in so little game-time in his first game I knew he was obviously pretty special and he backed it up with plenty more good games from low amounts of game-time, so it would be a big surprise if he's not killing it once he gets his endurance up. The guy I think of when I want a comparison for him is Michael Voss, so it's fair to say I think highly of him.

Next in line would be Hopper, Dunkley, Parish and Mills, who you could throw a blanket over, then probably Gresh, who would probably be in that group if he was more like 187cm than 177cm.

He looked genuinely out of his depth in his first couple of games, but by the end of the year he was getting better and better pretty much by the week, culminating a Brownlow vote-getting game against Carlton, when he got to spend by far the most time on ball that he'd had all year.

Will be interesting to see what role he mostly plays throughout his career, given his size. His footwork reminds me so much of Milne and I reckon he could likewise be terrific if played exclusively forward, but he has much more of an inside midfield-capable game than Milne did, so I expect we'll see him spend a lot of time in both areas (and the wing), depending on where we need him most.

 

[12Chill]

Oliver for me. Really liked the sound of him going into the draft (sounded like a "complete-package" type, with size, competitiveness, speed, skill, versatility, tackling game) and then once I heard how he went in so little game-time in his first game I knew he was obviously pretty special and he backed it up with plenty more good games from low amounts of game-time, so it would be a big surprise if he's not killing it once he gets his endurance up. The guy I think of when I want a comparison for him is Michael Voss, so it's fair to say I think highly of him.

Next in line would be Hopper, Dunkley, Parish and Mills, who you could throw a blanket over, then probably Gresh, who would probably be in that group if he was more like 187cm than 177cm.

He looked genuinely out of his depth in his first couple of games, but by the end of the year he was getting better and better pretty much by the week, culminating a Brownlow vote-getting game against Carlton, when he got to spend by far the most time on ball that he'd had all year.

Will be interesting to see what role he mostly plays throughout his career, given his size. His footwork reminds me so much of Milne and I reckon he could likewise be terrific if played exclusively forward, but he has much more of an inside midfield-capable game than Milne did, so I expect we'll see him spend a lot of time in both areas (and the wing), depending on where we need him most.

I don't think Gresh's size is an issue at all. Has so many tricks that cancel out any disadvantage his size may have otherwise given him. Is very thick through the quads and has incredible core strength, a great sidestep and somehow finds his way out of tackles when you'd expect him to get locked up by putting a left arm to their chest and using his leg strength to get away. Predominately midfield long term, but gee with his goal sense you'd love to have 2 of him so you could have one up forward and one in the midfield at all times.

 

[eth-dog]

Throw a blanket over Parish, Mills, Oliver, Gresham, Hopper, Kennedy and Keays as a smokie for me.

 

[Ambrosia]

It's between Hopper and Mills for me with the next group in Parish, Gresham, Oliver and Dunkley fighting it out for 3rd.

 

[Trav 20]

Oliver for me. Really liked the sound of him going into the draft (sounded like a "complete-package" type, with size, competitiveness, speed, skill, versatility, tackling game) and then once I heard how he went in so little game-time in his first game I knew he was obviously pretty special and he backed it up with plenty more good games from low amounts of game-time, so it would be a big surprise if he's not killing it once he gets his endurance up. The guy I think of when I want a comparison for him is Michael Voss, so it's fair to say I think highly of him.

This post is on the mark.

Oliver is going to be a very big and powerful mid, but it's worth noting that he came third in the agility test at DC - two tenths of a second behind Lovell.

He will be the heartbeat of the engine room for a decade.

 

[OnceKicked50]

Mills for mine. What the kid achieved in his first season was incredible. He slotted into half-back like a 150 game veteran. Even with Mitchell moving on the Swans midfield bats deeper then most other sides so it could be a number of years before he plays 80% of game time through there. He actually reminds me so much of Corey Enright and it wouldn't be a shock to see him earn multiple AA's as a back pocket/HBF.

What Darcy Parish achieved last season shouldn't go unnoticed. He has inside/outside class that some of the others on this list don't. With Heppell, Watson and co. coming back you would think he will be even better in season 2.

Plenty of love for Dunkley which is fair. I can't say I have seen much of him, but to play in a premiership team and keep out the likes of Suckling, Hvoart and Jong (who would all be best 22 in most sides) is a fair achievement.

Hooper has huge raps and dominated at NEAFL level (who doesn't) and I think one game at AFL.

Oliver will get fitter every pre-season, he will likely have lost his puppy fat entering season 2. He reminds me of Oli Wines, big lad and a contested ball beast. I think Jordan Lewis will be a great role model for him as Lewis had to find a way to adapt his game to the modern way without having pace and originally stamina. I'd probably have Oliver just behind Mills and ahead of the rest. With his size I think he is capable of playing forward at times and hitting the scoreboard more then the others.

 

[Ambrosia]

Oliver for me. Really liked the sound of him going into the draft (sounded like a "complete-package" type, with size, competitiveness, speed, skill, versatility, tackling game) and then once I heard how he went in so little game-time in his first game I knew he was obviously pretty special and he backed it up with plenty more good games from low amounts of game-time, so it would be a big surprise if he's not killing it once he gets his endurance up. The guy I think of when I want a comparison for him is Michael Voss, so it's fair to say I think highly of him.
.

His tank will hold him back and his kicking is currently no where near Voss level. Ben Cunnington level is around his ceiling imo.

 

[Trav 20]

Oliver will get fitter every pre-season, he will likely have lost his puppy fat entering season 2. He reminds me of Oli Wines, big lad and a contested ball beast. I think Jordan Lewis will be a great role model for him as Lewis had to find a way to adapt his game to the modern way without having pace and originally stamina.

Good summation, although I think you'd be surprised by Oliver's speed. He's not express, but it's far from a weakness.

 

[aussierulesrules]

His tank will hold him back and his kicking is currently no where near Voss level. Ben Cunnington level is around his ceiling imo.

Nah, if he gets his tank up to a good level I think he'll be a level or two above Cunnington, more of a "beast", more dynamic and damaging. Haven't seen enough of him to comment on his kicking, so that may not be as good as I thought.

 

[Ambrosia]

Nah, if he gets his tank up to a good level I think he'll be a level or two above Cunnington, more of a "beast", more dynamic and damaging. Haven't seen enough of him to comment on his kicking, so that may not be as good as I thought.

Looking at how poor his tank is now that's a big if.

 

[OnceKicked50]

Looking at how poor his tank is now that's a big if.

No issue. Thats one of the easiest things for an AFL club to address if they player is motivated, clearly he is.

Jobe watson was a fat arse early in his career too mate...

 

[Ambrosia]

No issue. Thats one of the easiest things for an AFL club to address if they player is motivated, clearly he is.

Jobe watson was a fat arse early in his career too mate...

Watson in his prime was is average aerobically and has seriously struggled with two way running throughout his career.

Look at Cunnington who can't get himself fit enough aerobically to reach 70% TOG whereas the best midfielders have no trouble reaching 80-85% TOG.

If building a big tank only came down to work rate then there would be plenty of footballers with the running ability of Nick Riewoldt.

 

[Trav 20]

Watson in his prime was is average aerobically and has seriously struggled with two way running throughout his career.

Look at Cunnington who can't get himself fit enough aerobically to reach 70% TOG whereas the best midfielders have no trouble reaching 80-85% TOG.

If building a big tank only came down to work rate then there would be plenty of footballers with the running ability of Nick Riewoldt.

A fat 18 year old Oliver managed to have enough fitness to poll Brownlow votes in two AFL games in his first year, including his first game against GWS.

I'm not too concerned about his capacity to reach a required level of fitness to be one of the game's dominant inside mids.

I'm assuming he has the drive, which, of course, I don't know.

 

[Ambrosia]

A fat 18 year old Oliver managed to have enough fitness to poll Brownlow votes in two AFL games in his first year, including his first game against GWS.

I'm not too concerned about his capacity to reach a required level of fitness to be one of the game's dominant inside mids.

I'm assuming he has the drive, which, of course, I don't know.

Do you think Cunnigton lacks drive and that's why he hasn't reached the fitness levels of his peers?

I should make it clear that I think Oliver will be a very good footballer I just see his below average tank as a limiting factor in being the best midfielder in his draft ahead of Mills and Hopper who are a more complete package imo.

 

[Trav 20]

Do you think Cunnigton lacks drive and that's why he hasn't reached the fitness levels of his peers.

No, why do you ask ?

And I don't believe Oliver's tank will be below average once he has 3/4 preseasons under his belt.

EDIT: I agree that some players are far more aerobically gifted than others, but I don't know too many inside mids not becoming great because they have a terrible tank.

 

[Trav 20]

I should make it clear that I think Oliver will be a very good footballer I just see his below average tank as a limiting factor in being the best midfielder in his draft ahead of Mills and Hopper who are a more complete package imo.

I just looked up Oliver's Draft Combine stats and note that he ran 10.45 minutes for the 3 kilometre trial a year ago.

Now, I'm no expert, so I probably need the contribution of others more familiar with 3K runs, but isn't that time reasonably good for an 18 year old coming off a period of high skinfolds ?

If so, I think there's enough doubt on your assertion that he has a "below average tank".

 

[The Blue Baggers]

Cunningham not worth a mention ??

 

[Skipper_]

Cunningham not worth a mention ??

No.

 

[OnceKicked50]

Do you think Cunnigton lacks drive and that's why he hasn't reached the fitness levels of his peers?

I should make it clear that I think Oliver will be a very good footballer I just see his below average tank as a limiting factor in being the best midfielder in his draft ahead of Mills and Hopper who are a more complete package imo.

You make mention Watson has a 'below average tank', yet he (was) a Brownlow medalist and one of the best mids in the game.

Sam mitchell started with a poor tank. Matthew Priddis. Luke Hodge. Jimmy Bartel. and so on.

The fact Oliver is a contest ball beast mitigates his need to be a tom scully. His tank will improve and he will play a very important role winning the ball for Melbourne.

As for Cunnington, he plays 70% because they have too many like mids. The rotate him Zieball and Swallow off the bench.

 

[OnceKicked50]

No, why do you ask ?

And I don't believe Oliver's tank will be below average once he has 3/4 preseasons under his belt.

EDIT: I agree that some players are far more aerobically gifted than others, but I don't know too many inside mids not becoming great because they have a terrible tank.

Give up mate, if this guy had his way everyone would need a team full of Tim Clarke's.

He probably rates Pat Howard and the sports scientists running Australian Cricket also...

 

[Ambrosia]

Give up mate, if this guy had his way everyone would need a team full of Tim Clarke's.

He probably rates Pat Howard and the sports scientists running Australian Cricket also...

Haha you've lost the plot. Its not like I don't rate Oliver I have him as the 3rd best mid in the draft.

I just see his lack of a tank as limiting his factor compared to Mills and Hopper.

 

[Trav 20]

Haha you've lost the plot. Its not like I don't rate Oliver I have him as the 3rd best mid in the draft.

I just see his lack of a tank as limiting his factor compared to Mills and Hopper.

How's 10.45 for a 3K time trial as a fat 18 year old ?

Does this disprove your "tank" theory ?