Why do workers vote Liberal?

[Nuggs Bunny]

I've given many examples of where the Liberals have screwed the workers, so provide me with examples where Labor hasn't fought for workers' pay and conditions?

What has the ALP done in the last 8 years of opposition to convince anybody that they were for workers' pay and conditions, or more importantly for those who live paycheque to paycheque, for jobs?

To what level did Shorten pledge to raise Newstart? Or Youth Allowance? What was the number?
To what level did Shorten pledge to raise the minimum wage? Again, what was the number?
What did Shorten offer to existing Australian industries, like steel manufacturing, to incentivise growth and a continuing presence in Australia?
What did Shorten have to say about the myriad of Free Trade deals that Australia signed up to (mostly under Howard) that are very clearly NOT in our favour?
What did ALP have planned for the rise of the "gig economy"? What did the ALP have planned for workforce casualisation and sham contracting?

What about since Shorten, what has the ALP had to say about any of these issues? Why is the ALP on the verge of rolling over and accepting $130bn of tax cuts for the highest income earners in the country without so much as a whimper?
Why hasn't the ALP under Albanese started some sort of campaign, some sort of conversation about stagnating real incomes? Or stubbornly climbing house prices?
Why hasn't the ALP had another roll at the mining super profits tax, and hammered home the phenomenal profit margins that the biggest miners are making on their operations at the expense of other sectors of the economy?
What about the increasingly growing Australian billionaire class?
What has the ALP done in the last ten years to convince anybody they are more than a neoliberal party that doesn't mind abortions and refugees?

The most infuriating thing about ALP being in opposition is not the Liberals being in power, it's other ALP voters blindly insisting that the party is doing nothing wrong and that the electorate are just ******ed at the polls. It's the textbook example of doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result. The amount of people whinging in the back end of 2019 how Labor should never "take policy to an election" again really underscores how unimaginative, insular and selfish that a seemingly large sect of the party has become. You'd think at some point the party will learn it is not good enough to just be better than the Liberals, particularly given it is such an extraordinarily low bar.

Left wing economics has seen a resurgence practically in every other major economy in the last few years, if nothing else other than to keep the philosophy of economic liberalism honest, and look what we're stuck with. It's straight up pathetic to think we're at the point where even vast swathes of the middle class are losing out under the current arrangement of pitiful wage growth and poor maintenance of Australian industry, and the ALP still can't sell the dream at the polls.

 

[nylexbandit]

So what your saying is a lot of shit things have literally happened under the liberals and Labor should be held to account for that?

 

[ralphmalph]

What has the ALP done in the last 8 years of opposition to convince anybody that they were for workers' pay and conditions, or more importantly for those who live paycheque to paycheque, for jobs?

To what level did Shorten pledge to raise Newstart? Or Youth Allowance? What was the number?
To what level did Shorten pledge to raise the minimum wage? Again, what was the number?
What did Shorten offer to existing Australian industries, like steel manufacturing, to incentivise growth and a continuing presence in Australia?
What did Shorten have to say about the myriad of Free Trade deals that Australia signed up to (mostly under Howard) that are very clearly NOT in our favour?
What did ALP have planned for the rise of the "gig economy"? What did the ALP have planned for workforce casualisation and sham contracting?

What about since Shorten, what has the ALP had to say about any of these issues? Why is the ALP on the verge of rolling over and accepting $130bn of tax cuts for the highest income earners in the country without so much as a whimper?
Why hasn't the ALP under Albanese started some sort of campaign, some sort of conversation about stagnating real incomes? Or stubbornly climbing house prices?
Why hasn't the ALP had another roll at the mining super profits tax, and hammered home the phenomenal profit margins that the biggest miners are making on their operations at the expense of other sectors of the economy?
What about the increasingly growing Australian billionaire class?
What has the ALP done in the last ten years to convince anybody they are more than a neoliberal party that doesn't mind abortions and refugees?

The most infuriating thing about ALP being in opposition is not the Liberals being in power, it's other ALP voters blindly insisting that the party is doing nothing wrong and that the electorate are just ******ed at the polls. It's the textbook example of doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result. The amount of people whinging in the back end of 2019 how Labor should never "take policy to an election" again really underscores how unimaginative, insular and selfish that a seemingly large sect of the party has become. You'd think at some point the party will learn it is not good enough to just be better than the Liberals, particularly given it is such an extraordinarily low bar.

Left wing economics has seen a resurgence practically in every other major economy in the last few years, if nothing else other than to keep the philosophy of economic liberalism honest, and look what we're stuck with. It's straight up pathetic to think we're at the point where even vast swathes of the middle class are losing out under the current arrangement of pitiful wage growth and poor maintenance of Australian industry, and the ALP still can't sell the dream at the polls.

Here’s one thing:

Gig economy workers: Labor's plan to boost job security, pay and entitlements

Anthony Albanese, who opposes the Coalition’s industrial relations omnibus bill, has outlined policies that could change the world of work

www.theguardian.com

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

What has the ALP done in the last 8 years of opposition to convince anybody that they were for workers' pay and conditions, or more importantly for those who live paycheque to paycheque, for jobs?

To what level did Shorten pledge to raise Newstart? Or Youth Allowance? What was the number?
To what level did Shorten pledge to raise the minimum wage? Again, what was the number?
What did Shorten offer to existing Australian industries, like steel manufacturing, to incentivise growth and a continuing presence in Australia?
What did Shorten have to say about the myriad of Free Trade deals that Australia signed up to (mostly under Howard) that are very clearly NOT in our favour?
What did ALP have planned for the rise of the "gig economy"? What did the ALP have planned for workforce casualisation and sham contracting?

What about since Shorten, what has the ALP had to say about any of these issues? Why is the ALP on the verge of rolling over and accepting $130bn of tax cuts for the highest income earners in the country without so much as a whimper?
Why hasn't the ALP under Albanese started some sort of campaign, some sort of conversation about stagnating real incomes? Or stubbornly climbing house prices?
Why hasn't the ALP had another roll at the mining super profits tax, and hammered home the phenomenal profit margins that the biggest miners are making on their operations at the expense of other sectors of the economy?
What about the increasingly growing Australian billionaire class?
What has the ALP done in the last ten years to convince anybody they are more than a neoliberal party that doesn't mind abortions and refugees?

The most infuriating thing about ALP being in opposition is not the Liberals being in power, it's other ALP voters blindly insisting that the party is doing nothing wrong and that the electorate are just ******ed at the polls. It's the textbook example of doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result. The amount of people whinging in the back end of 2019 how Labor should never "take policy to an election" again really underscores how unimaginative, insular and selfish that a seemingly large sect of the party has become. You'd think at some point the party will learn it is not good enough to just be better than the Liberals, particularly given it is such an extraordinarily low bar.

Left wing economics has seen a resurgence practically in every other major economy in the last few years, if nothing else other than to keep the philosophy of economic liberalism honest, and look what we're stuck with. It's straight up pathetic to think we're at the point where even vast swathes of the middle class are losing out under the current arrangement of pitiful wage growth and poor maintenance of Australian industry, and the ALP still can't sell the dream at the polls.

Shorten has really got into your head. Perhaps some therapy is in order.

As you adverted to the Coalition has had the levers during the period you mentioned ( and mostly during our history for that matter) and it's the Coalition who has been responsible for the casualisation of the workforce thereby removing the security of full-time employment and the benefits that flow from it such as sick leave, rec leave et al, which unions and Labor railed against. It was the Coalition who have always fought wage rises in the FWC while unions and Labor argued for a liveable wage. It was the Coalition that robbed workers of penalty rates which the unions and Labor strenuously opposed. It was the Coalition who has sat on their hands while workers have been ripped-off by massive underpayment and it was the unions and Labor who have screamed and are streaming about the wilful robbery. It was the Coalition who attempted Workchoices and it was the unions and Labor who forced an about-turn. It was the Coalition who have made collective bargaining virtually impossible for unskilled workers and it is the unions and Labor who opposed it.

I don't know where you get your news but Labor has been railing about Coalition policies benefiting the rich, wage rates stagnating - Labor and the unions fight for increases at the FWC every time. You critique a party that has a crack at things like the Mining Super tax, gets punished with a scare campaign and you wonder why they are a little gun shy at doing it again. The same applies to their reasonable policy of removing franking credits for people who pay no tax that would have brought in billions. Another scare campaign cruelled that. Labor and the unions have been railing about the enormous disparity in wealth for ages too. And how Coalition tax policies always favour their plutocratic mates.

Perhaps if you stopped getting all your information from Newscorpse you'd be better informed.

All the progressive moves beneficial to workers and those who have the least among us have come from unions and Labor. Going back to the eight hour day through to four weeks annual; fairer tax system; adequate minimum wages; fought the cuts to health, education and argued for changes to the inequitable and unsustainable tax concessions for superannuation; forced the Coalition into the banking RC many of the recommendations the Coalition are winding back; argued for worker safety provisions particularly on construction sites; tax cuts for low and middle-income earners and so it goes.

It was the ALP who established a universal health insurance scheme; youth income support and establishment of a new youth traineeship system; deregulated the banking system; floated the dollar; paid parental leave for dad's and other partners, established the NDIS; introduced base pension rates paid twice yearly and so it goes.

It's garbage to suggest there's been a left-wing resurgence "in every major economy". There is no real left in the USA or a viable union movement that explains their low wage rates. Even then they are honoured more in the breach than the observance. Where homelessness is at record levels, where people are having to work two and sometimes three jobs to keep a roof over their heads, where the gap between the rich and the poor has never been greater. In the UK Labor has been in disarray for years. Macron's policies are broadly right-wing. Trudeau is a Liberal. Then there's Spain, India, Latin America, Thailand, Israel, Singapore, South Korea, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brazil, Turkey, Hungary, Poland, Japan, etc

 

[Saint]

Never had any time for de Bruyn. Or some of his predecessors. The Union movement is not perfect but if you are suggesting their track record of improving worker's wages and conditions over decades isn't impressive then your knowledge of the movement is wanting. And to mention them in the same breath as the dregs of humanity, the IPA, is sickening.

With all its weaknesses there is only one party that places the interests of workers foremost and it ain't the party of plutocracy.

The Shoppies and their blatantly putting their own positions and issues ahead of the needs of their members is no different from the selfishness the IPA exhibits. If anything, de Bruyn has simply validated everything the IPA says.

Other Unions have done better, but just like the IPA isn't the whole LNP, the SDA isn't the whole Union/ALP, but the fact they're tolerated means they both stink.

I still think workers are better off voting ALP, but Fast Food and retail Workers aren't better off giving money to the SDA so de Bruyn can rail against progress. He's as religious nutty as Morrison but over the years has probably been more effective at pushing his personal beliefs onto Govt despite it being against the wishes of his members.

You can't criticise the IPA and think de Bruyn (and the SDA who supports him) is no worse. They're exactly the same, pushing their own morals onto people who don't want them.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

What has the ALP done in the last 8 years of opposition to convince anybody that they were for workers' pay and conditions, or more importantly for those who live paycheque to paycheque, for jobs?

To what level did Shorten pledge to raise Newstart? Or Youth Allowance? What was the number?
To what level did Shorten pledge to raise the minimum wage? Again, what was the number?
What did Shorten offer to existing Australian industries, like steel manufacturing, to incentivise growth and a continuing presence in Australia?
What did Shorten have to say about the myriad of Free Trade deals that Australia signed up to (mostly under Howard) that are very clearly NOT in our favour?
What did ALP have planned for the rise of the "gig economy"? What did the ALP have planned for workforce casualisation and sham contracting?

What about since Shorten, what has the ALP had to say about any of these issues? Why is the ALP on the verge of rolling over and accepting $130bn of tax cuts for the highest income earners in the country without so much as a whimper?
Why hasn't the ALP under Albanese started some sort of campaign, some sort of conversation about stagnating real incomes? Or stubbornly climbing house prices?
Why hasn't the ALP had another roll at the mining super profits tax, and hammered home the phenomenal profit margins that the biggest miners are making on their operations at the expense of other sectors of the economy?
What about the increasingly growing Australian billionaire class?
What has the ALP done in the last ten years to convince anybody they are more than a neoliberal party that doesn't mind abortions and refugees?

The most infuriating thing about ALP being in opposition is not the Liberals being in power, it's other ALP voters blindly insisting that the party is doing nothing wrong and that the electorate are just ******ed at the polls. It's the textbook example of doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result. The amount of people whinging in the back end of 2019 how Labor should never "take policy to an election" again really underscores how unimaginative, insular and selfish that a seemingly large sect of the party has become. You'd think at some point the party will learn it is not good enough to just be better than the Liberals, particularly given it is such an extraordinarily low bar.

Left wing economics has seen a resurgence practically in every other major economy in the last few years, if nothing else other than to keep the philosophy of economic liberalism honest, and look what we're stuck with. It's straight up pathetic to think we're at the point where even vast swathes of the middle class are losing out under the current arrangement of pitiful wage growth and poor maintenance of Australian industry, and the ALP still can't sell the dream at the polls.

I think you left out the LNP have been in Government for 8 years, but yeah what about Labor....the bastards

 

[Johnny Bananas]

What has the ALP done in the last ten years to convince anybody they are more than a neoliberal party that doesn't mind abortions and refugees?

I wouldn't even give them that. They make the right noises when something particularly disgusting happens, like Tharunicaa Murugappan getting sepsis in custody, but their actual policies on refugees are little better than the Liberals.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Just a guess, but correlate how many have Fox and watch Sky News.
Idiots will be idiots.

Do you realise that you no longer need Foxtel to watch Sky News? It's now broadcast digitally, free to air like C7, C9, C10 etc.

 

[GreyWind]

Do you realise that you no longer need Foxtel to watch Sky News? It's now broadcast digitally, free to air like C7, C9, C10 etc.

Isn't it still only in rural areas though?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Isn't it still only in rural areas though?

yep, but it broadcasts on iHeartradio, and is available on an app and apple tv

 

[Pessimistic]

Remeber whe

Remember when children used to work in coalmines, and wages were so low that by the time you bought enough food to eat from the only store in town, owned by the same company that owned the mine you had nothing left so your only option was to keep working in the mine?
And if you tried to organise any kind of unionised workforce to negotiate for better pay and safer conditions the mine owner simply called the local pollies who sent in the army or police who would beat people, literally to death until they went back to work?
Capitalism is privatised feudalism without some organised protection.
Balance.

‘you just described Australia right now. One great big company town. Try going through the Cold War eastern bloc* type rigmarole to even get a flight out of here

*I know that’s a bad thing cos our fearless (feckless) leader made a speech today saying Cold War authoritarianism is BAAAD

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Isn't it still only in rural areas though?

Dunno, haven't lived in a city for years.

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

The Shoppies and their blatantly putting their own positions and issues ahead of the needs of their members is no different from the selfishness the IPA exhibits. If anything, de Bruyn has simply validated everything the IPA says.

Other Unions have done better, but just like the IPA isn't the whole LNP, the SDA isn't the whole Union/ALP, but the fact they're tolerated means they both stink.

I still think workers are better off voting ALP, but Fast Food and retail Workers aren't better off giving money to the SDA so de Bruyn can rail against progress. He's as religious nutty as Morrison but over the years has probably been more effective at pushing his personal beliefs onto Govt despite it being against the wishes of his members.

You can't criticise the IPA and think de Bruyn (and the SDA who supports him) is no worse. They're exactly the same, pushing their own morals onto people who don't want them.

See your point but you're obsessing over one union. It's what Prime Mendacious does to blacken the name of the whole union movement. The insufferable de Bruyn is the secretary of one union among hundreds. The IPA is a powerful far-right organisation with great influence. Murdoch's old man started it and Rupy, who is still heavily involved, circulates their far-right dangerous propaganda throughout his media conglomerate. Many of his journos are members. Countless Liberals are members and there are a number of former IPA employees in the Federal Parliamentary Liberal Party.

On the matter at hand, there is very little of substance the Liberals have done specifically to benefit workers' wages and conditions.

On the other hand, they have taken away security, negotiating power, fought against wage rises, removed benefits such as penalty rates, gone after the less among us through attacks on them such as Robodebt, sat on their hands while their mates' underpaid workers massively et al

I understand some have important philosophical issues which cause them to vote one way or another. That's outside the issue of what's in the best interests of workers, particularly those who are unskilled when it comes to wages and conditions.

 

[Saint]

See your point but you're obsessing over one union. It's what Prime Mendacious does to blacken the name of the whole union movement. The insufferable de Bruyn is the secretary of one union among hundreds. The IPA is a powerful far-right organisation with great influence. Murdoch's old man started it and Rupy, who is still heavily involved, circulates their far-right dangerous propaganda throughout his media conglomerate. Many of his journos are members. Countless Liberals are members and there are a number of former IPA employees in the Federal Parliamentary Liberal Party.

On the matter at hand, there is very little of substance the Liberals have done specifically to benefit workers' wages and conditions.

On the other hand, they have taken away security, negotiating power, fought against wage rises, removed benefits such as penalty rates, gone after the less among us through attacks on them such as Robodebt, sat on their hands while their mates' underpaid workers massively et al

I understand some have important philosophical issues which cause them to vote one way or another. That's outside the issue of what's in the best interests of workers, particularly those who are unskilled when it comes to wages and conditions.

He was on the National Executive of the ALP. The IPA doesn't hold a seat like that (though have probably similar influence). He was also National President of the largest Union. He's not one among hundreds, he was the biggest one, 5 times bigger than the CFMEU.

But you never heard about them from the Murdoch press like you do Setka, because de Bruyn was basically on the corporate payroll to pursue his personal religious agenda within the ALP. It's like having a Business Council Rep in the leadership of the ALP.

de Bruyn basically allowed all of those powers to be taken from all of his members, because he only cared about his religious nuttery. Very little difference between him and Prime Mendacious.

 

[Leeda]

Reality conglomerates and otherwise we build uP to a rough beginning….
pess,…you’re dumb and lIable to keep the random farcical

 

[DaRick]

Firstly, what is a worker? Basically, just someone who has what most people would see as a 'job'.

However, there are many different types of workers - from your resident garbos to the CEO. Each comes from different walks in life, has a different type of job, has a different number of children (if married) and has different thought processes and beliefs on many things.

It's redundant to say that such individuals are not really part of the same team - especially when the CEO's heavily voted for the LNP in 2019.

So I'm not sure that the working-class heavily votes LNP.

What's been going on, I suspect, is that the working-class have drifted towards (without outright supporting) the LNP, because the modern ALP are perceived as being too close to the Quinoa Triangle set. It arguably started with Keating embracing progressive causes while the economy stagnated during the early 1990's, but it's become obvious now.

Right now, I'd say there are several types of working-class voters:
1) They vote ALP because at least they seem to care about workers rights
2) They vote ALP because of Hawke-related nostalgia
3) They vote LNP because, as small business owners, the Business Asset Write Off appeals to them*
4) They vote LNP because ScoMo just comes across as a 'smiling, regular, daggy dad' who engages with them as people, and joins in their games.**
5) They vote LNP because they believe, via a few meaningless attacks against 'Globalists' by ScoMo, that they're sticking one up to the 'globalists' who are going to bring in hordes of third-world people, or something.***

*Never mind that the LNP prefer big>small business, but can still understand why small-business owners prefer the LNP.
**In reality, ScoMo is a tenacious, micromanaging chameleon with few fixed principles and beliefs and a limited capacity to feel genuine empathy, but he can feign friendliness.
***Never mind that ScoMo hasn't always been shy about doing so, himself.

There are swing voters who vote for the LNP/ALP based on self-interest/community interest etc., but those aren't always working-class.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Why does anyone vote LNP?

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

He was on the National Executive of the ALP. The IPA doesn't hold a seat like that (though have probably similar influence). He was also National President of the largest Union. He's not one among hundreds, he was the biggest one, 5 times bigger than the CFMEU.

But you never heard about them from the Murdoch press like you do Setka, because de Bruyn was basically on the corporate payroll to pursue his personal religious agenda within the ALP. It's like having a Business Council Rep in the leadership of the ALP.

de Bruyn basically allowed all of those powers to be taken from all of his members, because he only cared about his religious nuttery. Very little difference between him and Prime Mendacious.

I've never been a member of a political party so I'll have to rely on people I know who are formally associated with the ALP. I am more familiar with unions.

de Bruyn's actual power and influence are more in the minds of his followers than in reality. I can give you dozens of illustrations of the actual power and influence of the IPA and how little real influence de Bruyn has. De Bruyn is a staunch Catholic and has tried valiantly to influence policy in line with Catholic teaching. For example, he opposed the dying with dignity legislation and attempted to derail it - fail. He advocates change to women's rights to termination - fail.

On the other hand, the IPA and the Liberals work hand in glove. The Executive Director has ready access to the highest office whenever he wants it. The IPA membership includes large numbers of Liberal politicians as well as former officeholders who are members of the parliamentary Liberal Party. It also has the extremely wealthy donors - Rinehart heading the list - as well as having the entire Murdoch media outfit to spread its extreme rightist propaganda.

An example of the real power of this dangerous extreme rightist outfit is their assault on the ABC. It was the IPA's playbook that devoted member Fifield used to intimidate and manipulate the ABC. Which included stacking the board, defunding, frequent intimidation, threatening the organisation, and driving the organisation to appoint right-wing execs to key positions. All of which has and is occurring under Fletcher.

They also exert real input on Liberal policies with mining, climate change, taxation, and media at the forefront.

They use the Murdoch media to spread disinformation about climate change. These extremists also have dingbat policies like demanding a Royal Commission into the Bureau of Meteorology because they claim the BOM manipulates climate change data.

There is absolutely no comparison with the power and influence of an organisation whose members are among the most powerful and influential, which has the largest mainstream media outfit at its disposal to spread its extremist policies, which has significant staff numbers, and which has direct access to the very seat of power in the Liberal Party and that of a union official.

How one think tank poisoned Australia's climate debate

One of the Institute of Public Affair's greatest successes has been to stitch climate denialism into the very fabric of the conservative political identity.

www.crikey.com.au

 

[Saint]

I've never been a member of a political party so I'll have to rely on people I know who are formally associated with the ALP. I am more familiar with unions.

de Bruyn's actual power and influence are more in the minds of his followers than in reality. I can give you dozens of illustrations of the actual power and influence of the IPA and how little real influence de Bruyn has. De Bruyn is a staunch Catholic and has tried valiantly to influence policy in line with Catholic teaching. For example, he opposed the dying with dignity legislation and attempted to derail it - fail. He advocates change to women's rights to termination - fail.

On the other hand, the IPA and the Liberals work hand in glove. The Executive Director has ready access to the highest office whenever he wants it. The IPA membership includes large numbers of Liberal politicians as well as former officeholders who are members of the parliamentary Liberal Party. It also has the extremely wealthy donors - Rinehart heading the list - as well as having the entire Murdoch media outfit to spread its extreme rightist propaganda.

An example of the real power of this dangerous extreme rightist outfit is their assault on the ABC. It was the IPA's playbook that devoted member Fifield used to intimidate and manipulate the ABC. Which included stacking the board, defunding, frequent intimidation, threatening the organisation, and driving the organisation to appoint right-wing execs to key positions. All of which has and is occurring under Fletcher.

They also exert real input on Liberal policies with mining, climate change, taxation, and media at the forefront.

They use the Murdoch media to spread disinformation about climate change. These extremists also have dingbat policies like demanding a Royal Commission into the Bureau of Meteorology because they claim the BOM manipulates climate change data.

There is absolutely no comparison with the power and influence of an organisation whose members are among the most powerful and influential, which has the largest mainstream media outfit at its disposal to spread its extremist policies, which has significant staff numbers, and which has direct access to the very seat of power in the Liberal Party and that of a union official.

How one think tank poisoned Australia's climate debate

One of the Institute of Public Affair's greatest successes has been to stitch climate denialism into the very fabric of the conservative political identity.

www.crikey.com.au

Yes, but the IPA are a reflection of the party. They haven't hidden their agenda. Greg Hunt got into parliament and said he wants US style healthcare.

You're conflating IPA influence with IPA toeing the line.

That's completely different from a top official using his position to appoint other staunch catholics who support his own world view instead of representing his members like he's supposed to.

At least the IPA is doing what it's being paid to do. de Bruyn gets a wage from hard working people and does what he wants.

 

[stefcep]

Labor abandoned the working class. Labor no longer the workers party but the wokers party. Completely out of touch with their core voter base.Massive swing against Labor in West Melbourne and West Sydney. Its this voter that will teach Labor its is nothing without the workers at the next election. Not before tim,e too.

Remember Plibersek: "I don't know where this aspiration comes from..."

Really Tanya- the daughter of post war immigrants from Eastern Euorpe attends a private school, attends a prestigious uiniveristy, rises to second in charge of the Federal opposition of her country on an annual salary 10x more than her average voter amassing a multi-million dollar property protfolio along the way before she's 50 years old..DOESN'T KNOW WHAT ASPIRATION MEANS

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

Yes, but the IPA are a reflection of the party. They haven't hidden their agenda. Greg Hunt got into parliament and said he wants US style healthcare.

You're conflating IPA influence with IPA toeing the line.

That's completely different from a top official using his position to appoint other staunch catholics who support his own world view instead of representing his members like he's supposed to.

At least the IPA is doing what it's being paid to do. de Bruyn gets a wage from hard working people and does what he wants.

You were the one comparing the influence of de Bruyn to that of the IPA. Merely responding to that proposition.

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

Labor abandoned the working class. Labor no longer the workers party but the wokers party. Completely out of touch with their core voter base.Massive swing against Labor in West Melbourne and West Sydney. Its this voter that will teach Labor its is nothing without the workers at the next election. Not before tim,e too.

Remember Plibersek: "I don't know where this aspiration comes from..."

Really Tanya- the daughter of post war immigrants from Eastern Euorpe attends a private school, attends a prestigious uiniveristy, rises to second in charge of the Federal opposition of her country on an annual salary 10x more than her average voter amassing a multi-million dollar property protfolio along the way before she's 50 years old..DOESN'T KNOW WHAT ASPIRATION MEANS

 

[stefcep]

Yeah sure Butternut Snap enjoy laughing at another 4 years in opposition making it what..24 years out of 30..

 

[Saint]

TO be honest,

While it's stupid of them to vote this way,

I can see why blue collar poorly educated people can relate more to people like Morrison, Abbott and Cash than they can to Shorten, Albanese and Plibersek.

Morrison and Cash barely sound like they went to private school. The LNP is failed business people who people can relate to. They guy is one of the worst, but Christensen is exactly like half his constituents. Slothful, well-paid and spends a tiny bit of time at the parlours in SE Asia. I reckon a lot of Qld FIFO miners can relate to his lifestyle.

The ALP appear to be all lawyers and far too well spoken and removed from ordinary people, especially the workers.

The ALP needs some actual blue collar workers and union members to run for higher office or any office, not their so-called representatives with legal degrees and private school educations.

There's gotta be some teachers, nurses or somebody who wants to run for office (not saying they need to be the PM or deputy PM, but just one or two people workers can relate to.)

 

[GreyWind]

The ALP needs some actual blue collar workers and union members to run for higher office or any office, not their so-called representatives with legal degrees and private school educations.

There's gotta be some teachers, nurses or somebody who wants to run for office (not saying they need to be the PM or deputy PM, but just one or two people workers can relate to.)

Steve McGhie the Vic ALP State MP fits that bill. Former Ambulance Officer during the 80s and 90s before becoming a union rep.