Why don't we play well in finals?

[Vdubs]

The bottom line is we have not been good enough. I have said in other posts that I thought this group (2017 edition) as as good a side we have had with the improvement of our second tier group...

Then last week's QF came along...I am hopeful that there will be a different level of performance Friday night. I think this group is capable of it.

Agree, they are, but also not reliably capable of repeat high pressure performances, it seems.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

"That’s because the 07-11 team was full of stars."

How many of that team lit the place up in their first season, or was talked about endlessly during their drafting, like some young stars. I think the majority of that team were a slow burn until their mid 20s.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Motlop

Menegola

 

[Two Planks]

Because the dumb coach plays a zone defence and when we are 6 goals down he reverts to man on man and across the ground and we play ok.

 

[cynical]

My point is really that you can't just magically "get better" - it's really about identifying *why* it is that we play so much better at KP, what in our side is suited to that ground (unless it's just the "at home" factor) and work through that. There are 17 other sides working to get better - and most have better picks, and better young players.

The main reason is natural home ground advantage and from a narrower ground.

What we should be doing is building a team to win at the MCG not at home. What we lack at the MCG are running defenders, quality outside players, forward pressure and a CHF who can get up the ground. As well as other leading forwards.

Playing 4 key defenders and guys like Blicavs/Kolo on the wings/midfield does not help us win at the MCG.

We should have 2 KPD, 1 3rd tall defender and the rest being smalls. People would say that is overly small but the reality is that in big games you rarely have multiple big forwards in a team dominating. But the run and carry of the smalls is invaluable for transitioning the ball out of defence.

It would mean less of an advantage at home (KP is suited to tall defenders because of the narrowness of the ground, more long kicks into the forward 50), but it would be worth it.

From next year I'd play Henderson as the main KPD then 2 of Gardner/Kolo/Stewart and the rest smalls. Thurlow,Guthrie,Zuthrie, Bews possibly Parfitt. I would not alter from that structure. It wouldnt do well for a few years but it would be a defensive unit that could stand up at the MCG.

 

[Cezz The Catter]

The main reason is natural home ground advantage and from a narrower ground.

What we should be doing is building a team to win at the MCG not at home. What we lack at the MCG are running defenders, quality outside players, forward pressure and a CHF who can get up the ground. As well as other leading forwards.

Playing 4 key defenders and guys like Blicavs/Kolo on the wings/midfield does not help us win at the MCG.

We should have 2 KPD, 1 3rd tall defender and the rest being smalls. People would say that is overly small but the reality is that in big games you rarely have multiple big forwards in a team dominating. But the run and carry of the smalls is invaluable for transitioning the ball out of defence.

It would mean less of an advantage at home (KP is suited to tall defenders because of the narrowness of the ground, more long kicks into the forward 50), but it would be worth it.

From next year I'd play Henderson as the main KPD then 2 of Gardner/Kolo/Stewart and the rest smalls. Thurlow,Guthrie,Zuthrie, Bews possibly Parfitt. I would not alter from that structure. It wouldnt do well for a few years but it would be a defensive unit that could stand up at the MCG.

Been disappointed in this line, Bews seems to be the only one who can break lines with speed and strength. Even Touhy isn't fulfilling the role we needed him to, when the pressures on around him his disposal is nothing short of ordinary. What we need is him in clear space streaming down the wing, he'd be lucky to make it out of the D50 before buggering up a handball or kick.

Don't blame the backs though, the midfield as people have stated aren't playing team defence well. They're caught flat footed and consistently beaten in strength and speed. They need to come out with some real hunger.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

I reckon one thing which contributes to Geelongs so so finals record over the journey - is Geel havent had real quick teams - you go back to the 90s - Couch Hocking Bairstow - very good players - they wernt quick at all - borderline slow

I can remember watching Leiciester City when they won the EPL title - and they played Man City in a pivotal game - at Man City ground - and they beat them about 4-1 - and they did it purely with speed and pace - they were a mile too quick - just destroyed them - and i thought at the time - if you have a pace advantage all over the ground - doesnt matter what football game it is - it is a huge advantage

Great example is Matera - 5 goals on a wing in a GF- purely with speed

Geelongs current team - is the slowest team in the comp -those 1st qtr blitzes - the Cats cant keep up

How many Geelong players over the journey - you say - hes a good footballer - but he aint quick - Geelongs had stacks of those .

You look at Menegola - you look at Grant Tanner - semi onballers - ok footballers - but their not Stawell gift winners - Geelongs had so many of them .

 

[cynical]

Been disappointed in this line, Bews seems to be the only one who can break lines with speed and strength. Even Touhy isn't fulfilling the role we needed him to, when the pressures on around him his disposal is nothing short of ordinary. What we need is him in clear space streaming down the wing, he'd be lucky to make it out of the D50 before buggering up a handball or kick.

Don't blame the backs though, the midfield as people have stated aren't playing team defence well. They're caught flat footed and consistently beaten in strength and speed. They need to come out with some real hunger.

Not just blaming the backs but thats where id start.

I'd also not play Kolo/Blicavs in the midfield. Blicavs probably wouldnt be in my side I'd have Smith rucking and Buzza giving him the chop out.

Only 1 of Menegola or Scott Selwood in the team also.

Would be playing Sam Simpson even though he is raw because I'd rather more outside runners at the expense of inside grunt.

 

[BotsMaster]

"That’s because the 07-11 team was full of stars."

How many of that team lit the place up in their first season, or was talked about endlessly during their drafting, like some young stars. I think the majority of that team were a slow burn until their mid 20s.

We could really do with Shannon Byrnes tonight.

 

[Vdubs]

We could really do with Shannon Byrnes tonight.

Travis Varcoe?

 

[Gavin Excell]

We could really do with Shannon Byrnes tonight.

Yes

And speedster Kane Tenace

 

[SydneyMalakellis]

We could really do with Shannon Byrnes tonight.

I was having this discussion just today. 2007-11 he was borderline in and out of the team. Even still he played a HUGE role in the last quarter of 2009. Nowadays, he'd be an automatic inclusion.

Just off top of head- he'd be ahead of
Zac Guthrie
Kolo
Parsons
Stewart
Parfitt
Lang
Motlop
Blicavs

 

[Tristan34]

Because we handball too much and we get nailed with the ball all the time...

 

[Claude Balls]

"That’s because the 07-11 team was full of stars."

How many of that team lit the place up in their first season, or was talked about endlessly during their drafting, like some young stars. I think the majority of that team were a slow burn until their mid 20s.

A common myth. A few of them were, but no where near the 'majority'.

 

[ATSAM]

I reckon one thing which contributes to Geelongs so so finals record over the journey - is Geel havent had real quick teams - you go back to the 90s - Couch Hocking Bairstow - very good players - they wernt quick at all - borderline slow

I can remember watching Leiciester City when they won the EPL title - and they played Man City in a pivotal game - at Man City ground - and they beat them about 4-1 - and they did it purely with speed and pace - they were a mile too quick - just destroyed them - and i thought at the time - if you have a pace advantage all over the ground - doesnt matter what football game it is - it is a huge advantage

Great example is Matera - 5 goals on a wing in a GF- purely with speed

Geelongs current team - is the slowest team in the comp -those 1st qtr blitzes - the Cats cant keep up

How many Geelong players over the journey - you say - hes a good footballer - but he aint quick - Geelongs had stacks of those .

You look at Menegola - you look at Grant Tanner - semi onballers - ok footballers - but their not Stawell gift winners - Geelongs had so many of them .

But that was the point of the 07-11 team, they weren't fast with the exception of a couple of them, but they were skilled, ran hard and played for one another. And had on field leadership by the buckets

 

[cynical]

But that was the point of the 07-11 team, they weren't fast with the exception of a couple of them, but they were skilled, ran hard and played for one another. And had on field leadership by the buckets

dont need to all be fast but you need skilled players (their ball movement and vision is fast so it gives the illusion)

a few line breakers and more skilled players and the team will look fast

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Because Chris Scott is a stubborn ****er who refuses to see reality...

Blind ****ing freddy can see what our tactics are at the MCG. Bomb ball down line, handpass the shit out of it until we turn it over, guard fresh air and pretend you are implementing this awesome 'zone', forget what front and centre means, forget how to lay a hard tackle (Dustin Martin face palmed our whole team it was embarrassing watching grown men fall over and bounce off him), forget how to kick when it really matters, have 4 defenders launch to spoil and forget to leave some on the ground to crumb, forget how to make a lead and get space from your opponent, play behind your opponent at stoppages so he has first access and can fire out handpass to on coming runner, forget what a block/shepard looks like, forget how to run in both directions because you are ****ing lazy, have no idea what a functional forward line structure looks like..

Thats most of the things.

 

[donbooger]

Finals seperates the wheat from the chaff, the strong get stronger and leave the fodder behind. If we get thumped by Sydney I think we are just not that good a football side and our home and away has flattered us the last couple years. Just a top 8 side in both years not a top 4.

The reason why we get such a good ladder position every year may well be the home ground advantage we enjoy just like interstate clubs without it being a big negative to do the several trips to Melbourne every year that they all have to put up with. It gives us a couple wins advantage every year bonus that no other team can enjoy.

What to do about it. Hell if I know.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Finals seperates the wheat from the chaff, the strong get stronger and leave the fodder behind. If we get thumped by Sydney I think we are just not that good a football side and our home and away has flattered us the last couple years. Just a top 8 side in both years not a top 4.

The reason why we get such a good ladder position every year may well be the home ground advantage we enjoy just like interstate clubs without it being a big negative to do the several trips to Melbourne every year that they all have to put up with. It gives us a couple wins advantage every year bonus that no other team can enjoy.

What to do about it. Hell if I know.

Dont trade future first round picks.....

 

[Skeppersap]

This is the least I have ever looked forward to a final... that is what the sustained finals failure and lack of heart shown by the team last week has done to me.

 

[Turbocat]

"That’s because the 07-11 team was full of stars."

How many of that team lit the place up in their first season, or was talked about endlessly during their drafting, like some young stars. I think the majority of that team were a slow burn until their mid 20s.

Can I double like this... Yes we started to show from 2004 on but plenty thought that we lacked enough stars after 04 and 05.

Our method must be a strong contributor to our demise as a Sept side. And not for over a decade have we been so thoroughly written off as we have been tonight. We are no officially a joke again... u know whats big and green and eats cats....

 

[Turbocat]

I reckon one thing which contributes to Geelongs so so finals record over the journey - is Geel havent had real quick teams - you go back to the 90s - Couch Hocking Bairstow - very good players - they wernt quick at all - borderline slow

I can remember watching Leiciester City when they won the EPL title - and they played Man City in a pivotal game - at Man City ground - and they beat them about 4-1 - and they did it purely with speed and pace - they were a mile too quick - just destroyed them - and i thought at the time - if you have a pace advantage all over the ground - doesnt matter what football game it is - it is a huge advantage

Great example is Matera - 5 goals on a wing in a GF- purely with speed

Geelongs current team - is the slowest team in the comp -those 1st qtr blitzes - the Cats cant keep up

How many Geelong players over the journey - you say - hes a good footballer - but he aint quick - Geelongs had stacks of those .

You look at Menegola - you look at Grant Tanner - semi onballers - ok footballers - but their not Stawell gift winners - Geelongs had so many of them .

Are the Swans really quicker than us? I think its our method... obviously we would all love for us to have 18 super quick players but having would 18 Murdochs really make us better? Stanley won a sprint comp.. the issue is not just speed but not having quick quality players

 

[catempire]

Are the Swans really quicker than us?

The winners were always quicker. Always.

 

[Turbocat]

The winners were always quicker. Always.

Fair point

 

[The rabbi]

The winners were always quicker. Always.

You always look slow when you don't have the ball.