Will Essendon win the Flag ?

[fishardansin]

Better to watch how Fletcher is beaten for strength by power forwards if he can't play off them and use his speed to spoil. That's always been a weakness that was consistently exploited by Kernahan, Anthony Rocca, Sav Rocca and Jonathan Brown. Power forwards killed him more than they hurt SOS.

SOS would give away 50 free kicks a game these days. The grappling he was allowed to get away with was special treatment. I'm sure the umpire's head exploded when Carlton played Geelong as he just couldn't work out who to change the rules for and favor. Ablet vs SOS!!

Fletch has stood and beaten, yes and sometimes been beaten by, all the best forwards in the last 20 years. He also is the best offensive KPD in the history of the game, Scarlet is nearly as good at that part. Certainly one on one with a big gorrilla SOS would do better than Fletch, however, I prefer Fletch's all round game.

I was too young to see Doull play but my PE teacher was Warrick Irwin and his description of Doull reminds me of Fletch. So I think we've been lucky enough to have a 198cm version of Doull. A man who has beaten every KPF over the last 20 years as well as blanket gun forward pockets like Matera.

The fact that he has less than 5 - 10 AA is a disgrace and cast doubts on the whole selection process.

 

[Blue1980]

SOS would give away 50 free kicks a game these days. The grappling he was allowed to get away with was special treatment. I'm sure the umpire's head exploded when Carlton played Geelong as he just couldn't work out who to change the rules for and favor. Ablet vs SOS!!

Fletch has stood and beaten, yes and sometimes been beaten by, all the best forwards in the last 20 years. He also is the best offensive KPD in the history of the game, Scarlet is nearly as good at that part. Certainly one on one with a big gorrilla SOS would do better than Fletch, however, I prefer Fletch's all round game.

I was too young to see Doull play but my PE teacher was Warrick Irwin and his description of Doull reminds me of Fletch. So I think we've been lucky enough to have a 198cm version of Doull. A man who has beaten every KPF over the last 20 years as well as blanket gun forward pockets like Matera.

The fact that he has less than 5 - 10 AA is a disgrace and cast doubts on the whole selection process.

Thats a myth regarding SOS, you would think he was Micky Gayfer with the description some people give him. If he was illegal in his methods how come all who played on him (Dunstall, Lockett, Hird, Ablett etc) rate him so highly?

Its been done to death but SOS could play anywhere, and was incredibly skillful. You don't kick bags of 8-10 goals in matches, take spectacular marks being a grappling battler.

Fletch - the most amazing thing about Fletch is his longevity. It is quite amazing, but he now plays more of a general in defence as opposed to handling big opponents. He does it bloody well, but I don't rate him higher than SOS or Scarlett because of it. By the same logic I should rate Michael Tuck ahead of, say Ben Cousins.

 

[WSPHU]

Thats a myth regarding SOS, you would think he was Micky Gayfer with the description some people give him. If he was illegal in his methods how come all who played on him (Dunstall, Lockett, Hird, Ablett etc) rate him so highly?

Its been done to death but SOS could play anywhere, and was incredibly skillful. You don't kick bags of 8-10 goals in matches, take spectacular marks being a grappling battler.

Fletch - the most amazing thing about Fletch is his longevity. It is quite amazing, but he now plays more of a general in defence as opposed to handling big opponents. He does it bloody well, but I don't rate him higher than SOS or Scarlett because of it. By the same logic I should rate Michael Tuck ahead of, say Ben Cousins.

No one should be higher than Cousins

 

[BM123]

That would be the case if you actually made an impact in October.

Ergo, you didn't.

Last year is last year, this year is this year. We'll take those four points very happily, thank you. Felt so good smashing you overrated hacks.

ustillmad

Essendon beat West Coast early last year and Adelaide also managed to beat the Hawks but that didn't stop Essendon and Adelaide from becoming quite ordinary sides later on in the year. Geelong and Hawks have also lost to teams they were supposed to beat as well. The significance of your win looks pretty small for both Carlton and Essendon considering you lost to Collingwood the week after. We had three players get injured during the game and you can see how badly that hurts a team since West Coast almost lost to Richmond due to having 30 less rotations.

 

[pazza]

er....

He's in our top 10 players, he would get a game at every club.

Just because a player is in Carlton's top 10 players doesn't = getting a game at every club.

He's a long way behind the following 10 from your club - Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Simpson, Betts, Garlett, Yarran, Kreuzer, Jamison, Carazzo.

He's about the equal of Armfield.

 

[TD]

Essendon beat West Coast early last year and Adelaide also managed to beat the Hawks but that didn't stop Essendon and Adelaide from becoming quite ordinary sides later on in the year. Geelong and Hawks have also lost to teams they were supposed to beat as well. The significance of your win looks pretty small for both Carlton and Essendon considering you lost to Collingwood the week after. We had three players get injured during the game and you can see how badly that hurts a team since West Coast almost lost to Richmond due to having 30 less rotations.

Rattan didn't seem to think that Essendon losing 2 players to knee reconstructions was much of an advantage to Carlton last year when we managed to hold on for a draw.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Essendon will win one within 5 years but I do not think that it will be in 2012.

Still. It's pretty exciting no?

Essendon are doing well, and their supporters have every right to be optimistic. However, if you listen to everyone, we currently have about 10 clubs who are all going to win a flag in the next 5 years.

All I can say is, aim for this year's flag because sometimes tomorrow never comes.

 

[Jesse Custer]

Would just like to say that Essendon should be getting a little more respect than they've been shown in this thread. You can't argue they haven't stepped up their game. Whether that's gonna be enough, who knows seven rounds into a season, but I seem to recall another year which when the Dons lacked name players, hadn't played finals the previous year and still snagged a flag. I don't subscribe to the only one way to flag mantra, in which teams must steadily progress deeper into finals each season. If the Dons keep playing the way the have been and keep a healthy list, they're every chance ... God forbid!

wish there were more of you going around...

 

[fishardansin]

Essendon are doing well, and their supporters have every right to be optimistic. However, if you listen to everyone, we currently have about 10 clubs who are all going to win a flag in the next 5 years.

All I can say is, aim for this year's flag because sometimes tomorrow never comes.

That is possible if they start handing out flags for preseason cup.

Totally agree with that assessment though. With Carlton planning to win 2 in the next 4 years, Richmond 3 in the next 10, Collingwood beginning a dynasty and then finally the expansion teams will take over the comp it doesn't leave much room for the rest of us!!

Clubs and their supporters need to face facts that there is probably a 50/50 chance they wont win a flag in every 10 year rebuild-challenge cycle even if the club does everything right. Other clubs are doing everything right too. Not to mention that I've seen the best team of the year not win the flag many times and in 98 and 08 I've seen the best team on the day loose due to bad kicking.

I think some people need to take a breath and look at a club like Sydney and say what they've produced over the last decade is enough. Sure there's been "only" one flag but to consistently challenge or make finals is all you can ask. The rest is a matter of hoping the cards fall your way.

 

[The House]

Agree with Fish....a lot of it comes down to the cards falling your way at the right times - all you can do is prepare your list as best as you possibly can to become a genuine contender, and go from there.

I still maintain that the Saints would have won a flag had it not poured in '09...but it did, and it's really impossible to know how it will pan out.

The only season I can think of where I was positive I knew by round 6 who would win, was the year 2000.

What we do know is:
Essendon's list has hardly changed since last year when the majority of experts and supporters had them in the bottom 4....and it's the same list that more experts than not left out of their 8 this year.

All you can take out of the season thus far is that many, many people have completely underestimated the quality and depth of this list, and that the list still has a lot of improvement to come.

Whatever happens after that is anyone's guess.

 

[Monkey King]

SOS would give away 50 free kicks a game these days.

What a load of rubbish. Silvagni was simply an excellent footballer. To give an indication of his talent, he would outpoint Carey at CHF time and again; no grappling, just a great reader of the play with an instinctive spoil, terrific mark and amazingly strong through the legs. He would have been an out-and-out champion in any era.

I was too young to see Doull play but my PE teacher was Warrick Irwin and his description of Doull reminds me of Fletch.

I like Fletcher and reckon he is chronically underrated on BF; but no! Just no! Doull is pound for pound probably the best defender I've seen play footy. To give you some indication - he's arguably comparable to James Hird in quality of footballer. Really! That's how good he was. Ask Irwin if you don't believe me.

 

[The Magenius]

Absolute certs to win this weekend with NicNat out. Will be top of the table and probably premiership favourites by saturday evening.

Their odds for saturday have come in a mile.

 

[white stain 3]

Absolute certs to win this weekend with NicNat out. Will be top of the table and probably premiership favourites by saturday evening.

Their odds for saturday have come in a mile.

for some reason, i feel like kicking u in the balls

 

[Monkey King]

wish there were more of you going around...

Cheers mate

A lot of needless smack being talked in this thread. I reckon your mob is nicely balanced around the ground and underrated in many positions. They appear strong and willing around the contest and seem to be very well drilled atm, which is an underestimated quality in a team. I'd like to know who gets most of the credit for that among Dons fans, Hirdy or Bomber?

 

[Jesse Custer]

Cheers mate

A lot of needless smack being talked in this thread. I reckon your mob is nicely balanced around the ground and underrated in many positions. They appear strong and willing around the contest and seem to be very well drilled atm, which is an underestimated quality in a team. I'd like to know who gets most of the credit for that among Dons fans, Hirdy or Bomber?

Hard to split mate. So i'll go 50/50. But as for premiership favourites or a chance to win this year, i don't think so.

 

[fishardansin]

What a load of rubbish. Silvagni was simply an excellent footballer. To give an indication of his talent, he would outpoint Carey at CHF time and again; no grappling, just a great reader of the play with an instinctive spoil, terrific mark and amazingly strong through the legs. He would have been an out-and-out champion in any era.

I honestly think in this day and age Silvagni would be a star forward. He was a gun no doubt but I do think he was given a little more leway in what he was allowed to do in contests, much like Ablett. I'm not one eyed about these things I noticed it with Hird and Wanganeen and how starry eyed umpires would look after them.

I remember watching him play up forward one day, ok admittedly I was a little stoned that day but he just seemed a foot taller than anyone. It was like watching an u12 play in the u10s!!

I like Fletcher and reckon he is chronically underrated on BF; but no! Just no! Doull is pound for pound probably the best defender I've seen play footy. To give you some indication - he's arguably comparable to James Hird in quality of footballer. Really! That's how good he was. Ask Irwin if you don't believe me.

Irwin would always go on about his long arms being able to spoil even when he was out of position and his ability to read the play. Sounds like Fletch!!

Regards rating I'd have Fletch as the best player at Essendon over the last 20 years. I rate him ahead of Hird and Lloyd. Simply put he could easily have played their roles yet neither of them could have played his. Also the stats show that his presence had more influence on the result than either of those two.

 

[September_Glory]

Essendon should finish top 4 and win at least one final (possibly two).

Anything less and their season should be considered a disappointment.

 

[Necromancer Beth]

I
Regards rating I'd have Fletch as the best player at Essendon over the last 20 years. I rate him ahead of Hird and Lloyd. Simply put he could easily have played their roles yet neither of them could have played his. Also the stats show that his presence had more influence on the result than either of those two.

Fletcher isn't even in the same ballpark as Hird.

 

[pazza]

Essendon should finish top 4 and win at least one final (possibly two).

Anything less and their season should be considered a disappointment.

This I agree with.

I think we will definitely do that...based onthe factors I put up earlier and the lieklihood of a full list to pick from by then.

 

[Monkey King]

I honestly think in this day and age Silvagni would be a star forward. He was a gun no doubt but I do think he was given a little more leway in what he was allowed to do in contests, much like Ablett.

He could have been a star forward back in the 80's-90's too. Kicked a bag of 10 goals once, with 8 goals a couple of times and quite a few smaller bags of 5-6 goals; all with irregular stints up forward. Would have been a star in any key position, but completely owned FB for a number of years.

I don't dispute SOS got leeway, especially in comparison to what defenders get pinged for today; but not that outstandingly different to other defenders of his day. Reckon his octopus arms and the fact he was so strong in the legs forwards often tried to move him off the line always made it look worse.

In the modern game, he would IMO simply adapt his talent to match the requirements, much as he did when playing up forward or at CHB against Carey.

Irwin would always go on about his long arms being able to spoil even when he was out of position and his ability to read the play. Sounds like Fletch!!

Doull was much more than just a great spoiler with long arms. I could go ahead and wax lyrical, but that's not gonna make a difference. If you can grab a copy of his 81' GF performance, that will speak for itself.

Like I said, Doull can arguably be compared to Hird - who is the best Essendon player I've seen since Simon Madden and Tim Watson; and I just can't agree with an assessment that puts Fletcher ahead of those three.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

I'd like to know who gets most of the credit for that among Dons fans, Hirdy or Bomber?

Thompson spent most of last year making sure the football club more closely resembled... a football club. He's reportedly more hands-on this year, which would be due in part to the departure of McCartney.

Hird gets the credit, since Hird also cops the flak when things don't go right. He's the senior coach and the buck stops with him.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Essendon should finish top 4 and win at least one final (possibly two).

Anything less and their season should be considered a disappointment.

Oh god... check the subtlety.

You Weagles are so bad at this it hurts.

No wonder you can’t get your heads around complex concepts like daylight saving.

I know, I know... one hour’s more sunshine per day will kill the crops.

 

[stugots]

I know, I know... one hour’s more sunshine per day will kill the crops.

& dont forget about the children..

 

[Monkey King]

Hard to split mate. So i'll go 50/50. But as for premiership favourites or a chance to win this year, i don't think so.

This year I can sort of see a bit of Bomber in the way your group goes about it, which is why I ask the question. But I'll defer to blokes like you and Lord Nicholson, who should know better than me. Still, I wish we had an ex-coach of that calibre in the background to support Ratts; Alan Richardson is our version I guess.

I don't think it's likely Essendon will win the flag this season, but you sure are putting your hand up to be in the right position when the time comes and that makes it's far from impossible; especially with guys like Watson, Ryder, Hurley and Crameri, who I reckon have finals match winner written all over them.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

This year I can sort of see a bit of Bomber in the way your group goes about it, which is why I ask the question. But I'll defer to blokes like you and Lord Nicholson, who should know better than me. Still, I wish we had an ex-coach of that calibre in the background to support Ratts; Alan Richardson is our version I guess.

I don't think it's likely Essendon will win the flag this season, but you sure are putting your hand up to be in the right position when the time comes and that makes it's far from impossible; especially with guys like Watson, Ryder, Hurley and Crameri, who I reckon have finals match winner written all over them.

Re having a very senior “assistant”, I heard from a reasonably reliable source that Ratten was “offered” one (in quite a forceful manner) by the Carlton board at the end of 2010. He steadfastly refused.

He basically put his knackers on the line last year with that move, but got the job done and got himself another contract.

I guess he didn’t see it as a completely straight move by the club with it being the last year of his own contract. Which is probably correct.