Will soccer ever be a serious threat to footy, long-term?

[Gigantor]

The WC is a huge ego trip. Apart from that, & the corrupt selection process, it costs host nations a bloody fortune they c asn never hope to recoup. Its a fraud. Run by criminals. 1/2 the 'tourists' who travel to watch it are antisocial thugs looking for trouble. We're lucky we only wasted $45mill on the fraudulent application. We're safer & financially better off without it.

Amen to that.

 

[madmug]

Getting back to Ange's original statement about benchmarking.

On the one hand, he's correct that the AFL cannot be benchmarked against any other professional league, because it is the only professional aussie rules league in the world.

We do know with absolute certainity, unequivocally, that the Bateman's Bay reserves cannot get anywhere near a senior AFL team.

We do know that lower tier soccer teams can be competitive against top tier soccer teams, and sometimes even beat them. There are countless examples of this happening.

We do know that the Wanderers was able to put together a premeirship winning team in its very first season, with only four months to get their act together, something that has never been replicated in the AFL, in fact, no one has even come remotely close to that achievement. It would appear, at least in the Australian example, that soccer players who are good enough to win a premiership can be picked up almost anywhere. In the Wanderers example, we are talking about establishing a successful team from scratch in an extremely short period of time.

Does this give us another perspective on the benchmarking question?

Benchmarking or comparisons. Lets compare AFL attendance averages against other professional competitions around the world.

 

[tandino]

We do know with absolute certainity, unequivocally, that the Bateman's Bay reserves cannot get anywhere near a senior AFL team.

We do know that lower tier soccer teams can be competitive against top tier soccer teams, and sometimes even beat them. There are countless examples of this happening.

If you want to talk about benchmarking, even the non-league, 5th tier football sides in England are still within the top 100 clubs in the country. There is no way that Bateman's Bay football team is in that same class. A more apt comparison is with an Australian Rules club in the top 100. It's a lot harder to pinpoint such a club, and at that level the talent is spread more thinly and not as concentrated as it is in English Football. It would probably be the likes of a top Eastern Football League or Northern Football League club.

Can such a club beat an AFL team? Not very likely at all, but those football clubs at that level take their football very seriously. The last time a 5th division club beat a first division club in the FA Cup was in 1989. If such matchups happened in Australian Rules Football over the past 27 years, midweek in between AFL Rounds, I guarantee you an EFL or NFL club would have fluked a win.

We do know that the Wanderers was able to put together a premeirship winning team in its very first season, with only four months to get their act together, something that has never been replicated in the AFL, in fact, no one has even come remotely close to that achievement. It would appear, at least in the Australian example, that soccer players who are good enough to win a premiership can be picked up almost anywhere. In the Wanderers example, we are talking about establishing a successful team from scratch in an extremely short period of time.

Melbourne Storm got within half a win of first place in their first season of NRL, in a 20 team competition. They won the premiership the next year. Arizona Diamondbacks in their second season of MLB won 100 games, which was the second best performance in the country, in a 30+ team competition. Adelaide got within 2 quarters of a Grand Final appearance in their third year of competition.

There's nothing unusual or special about what happened with Western Sydney. Sure, it's not the normal situation with expansion clubs but it does happen. All other examples of A-League expansion are ones of hardship anyway. It's not as easy as you think to build up a professional Football side.

 

[Gigantor]

Benchmarking or comparisons. Lets compare AFL attendance averages against other professional competitions around the world.

Another worthwhile benchmark, no doubt, especially on a per capita basis.

It's why Ange is talking up making comparisons with tin pot countries rather than right here in Australia.

 

[Gigantor]

If you want to talk about benchmarking, even the non-league, 5th tier football sides in England are still within the top 100 clubs in the country.

I'm sure someone as knowledgeable as your good self would understand that things start getting a bit complicated once you get down to the 5th tier of English football, so you may or may not be correct with your statement.

Nevertheless, pull out whatever club you reckon is the 80th best footy club in the land, and I can make you this promise, if it played a game against a senior AFL team, any senior AFL team, it would cop the mother of all thrashings.

Of course you won't ever see such a game because the result is pre-ordained.

The point remains, it's possible for a 5th tier English club to be competitive against a top Premier League club.

That's neither a good or bad thing, it's an interesting quirk about soccer, and certainly a major point of difference to footy.

 

[madmug]

Another worthwhile benchmark, no doubt, especially on a per capita basis.

It's why Ange is talking up making comparisons with tin pot countries rather than right here in Australia.

A quick look at Mr Google shows ALeague is on a par with Belgium & Portugal soccer. Way below the AFL, or the NRL for that matter. Let alone T20.

 

[jatz14]

I'm sure someone as knowledgeable as your good self would understand that things start getting a bit complicated once you get down to the 5th tier of English football, so you may or may not be correct with your statement.

Nevertheless, pull out whatever club you reckon is the 80th best footy club in the land, and I can make you this promise, if it played a game against a senior AFL team, any senior AFL team, it would cop the mother of all thrashings.

Of course you won't ever see such a game because the result is pre-ordained.

The point remains, it's possible for a 5th tier English club to be competitive against a top Premier League club.

That's neither a good or bad thing, it's an interesting quirk about soccer, and certainly a major point of difference to footy.

Just comparing a team at the top of the ladder in the WAFL with a WAFL bottom of the ladder reserves team, its hard to see them getting within 20 goals ever.

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[Garlic muncher]

Just comparing a team at the top of the ladder in the WAFL with a WAFL bottom of the ladder reserves team, its hard to see them getting within 20 goals ever.

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I get the point but arguably there could be 100 teams better than the reserves but not as good as the seniors.

A grade WAAFL Amateurs may be better than WAFL reserve grade teams

 

[kaypee]

I actually look at it the opposite way. My kids play both, and I sometimes worry about the players footy is losing to soccer, but when I look at the soccer games, I generally cannot see to many guys I would be keen to have at my footy club.

They generally lack something, which I think might be loosely called aggressiveness? appetite for the contest?

Its this keeping Australia's best players largely in lower level competitions, even if skill wise they are up there.

Can anyone think of a Socceroo who they think would have been a star had they played footy.

Cahill would have been a good small Forward, but better than Betts or Riolli?

Cannot think of many others footy would cry over missing out on.

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Viduka would have gone alright at footy

 

[Gigantor]

Viduka would have gone alright at footy

Yeh, I agree, he played a bit of footy at school. He had a decent build on him, and he was a very skillful player for someone so big (his ball control and passing was as good as anyone who has ever played for the socceroos).

When Farina was coach of the NT, they were training at the MCG and he grabbed a bunch of footies from the MFC and they did a bit of circle work for something different.

Dukes was a standout. At the opposite end, Harry Kewell wasn't too crash hot (but in fairness to him, probably the first time he ever touched a footy).

 

[CotchNCo]

Yeh, I agree, he played a bit of footy at school. He had a decent build on him, and he was a very skillful player for someone so big (his ball control and passing was as good as anyone who has ever played for the socceroos).

When Farina was coach of the NT, they were training at the MCG and he grabbed a bunch of footies from the MFC and they did a bit of circle work for something different.

Dukes was a standout. At the opposite end, Harry Kewell wasn't too crash hot (but in fairness to him, probably the first time he ever touched a footy).

Dukes' first touch hhhhhnnggggggg. Could take anything out of the air.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Viduka would have gone alright at footy

Croatian- they are big and strong, I read somewhere they along with a few of the other Yugoslav tribes, the biggest people in the world.

 

[madmug]

Croatian- they are big and strong, I read somewhere they along with a few of the other Yugoslav tribes, the biggest people in the world.

Zulus look pretty big to me

 

[Garlic muncher]

Zulus look pretty big to me

Skinny.

Slavs are just in general big and strong.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Croatian- they are big and strong, I read somewhere they along with a few of the other Yugoslav tribes, the biggest people in the world.

LOL Croation is a tribe now?

Its a nationality, not an ethnicity.

Biggest people in the world are the Dutch.

 

[Gigantor]

LOL Croation is a tribe now?

Its a nationality, not an ethnicity.

Biggest people in the world are the Dutch.

Pacific Islanders look pretty big (depending on what you mean by big)

 

[Garlic muncher]

LOL Croation is a tribe now?

Its a nationality, not an ethnicity.

Biggest people in the world are the Dutch.

Well i was exaggerating a bit with the tribe stuff - bit of poetic license- i have heard the Dutch are the tallest as well.

Depends what you read, http://www.naturalheightgrowth.com/...a-specifically-dalmatia-and-the-dinaric-alps/

Croations tend to be tall and big, not just tall and skinny like many Dutch i have noticed.

From memory Southern Italians are the smallest in Europe.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Pacific Islanders look pretty big (depending on what you mean by big)

Samoans and Fijians are pretty big in general.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Well i was exaggerating a bit with the tribe stuff - bit of poetic license- i have heard the Dutch are the tallest as well.

Depends what you read, http://www.naturalheightgrowth.com/...a-specifically-dalmatia-and-the-dinaric-alps/

Croations tend to be tall and big, not just tall and skinny like many Dutch i have noticed.

From memory Southern Italians are the smallest in Europe.

Thin comes down to diet.

Height comes down to diet as well actually. The Dutch where the shortest people in western europe just over a hundred years ago.

Now, in three generations, maybe four, the average height there is like 6'2. All because their quality of food drastically increased.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Thin comes down to diet.

Height comes down to diet as well actually. The Dutch where the shortest people in western europe just over a hundred years ago.

Now, in three generations, maybe four, the average height there is like 6'2. All because their quality of food drastically increased.

We'll sort of, you must have the genetics to be tall, diet alone may make you reach your optimal height.

I would have thought diet combined with genetics, I also reckon that height is also determined by the factors in the surrounding environment - by that I mean natural selection.

I did read a paper that showed that taller Dutch men had more children.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

We'll sort of, you must have the genetics to be tall, diet alone may make you reach your optimal height.

I would have thought diet combined with genetics, I also reckon that height is also determined by the factors in the surrounding environment - by that I mean natural selection.

I did read a paper that showed that taller Dutch men had more children.

It might be that the dutch were abnormally short for a time when they had a lot of wars and economic depression going on i.e. less food available, big people were more of an expense than small people, so shorter people were naturally selected at that time... environment and circumstance would definitely play a big part

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Islanders are naturally huge just not so tall. I read somewhere American Samoans are 50000 times more likely to make NFL then the rest of Amerians

 

[Damon_3388]

Islanders are naturally huge just not so tall. I read somewhere American Samoans are 50000 times more likely to make NFL then the rest of Amerians

Yeah, in terms of the population of those Pacific islands, their people and descendants are hugely represented in the NFL, and also the NRL here in Australia too.

 

[madmug]

Yeah, in terms of the population of those Pacific islands, their people and descendants are hugely represented in the NFL, and also the NRL here in Australia too.

Are we aware of any/many playing Aussie Rules footy anywhere.?

 

[Damon_3388]

Are we aware of any/many playing Aussie Rules footy anywhere.?

Aaron Hall was born in Australia, of Fijian parentage (mother).

Setanta Ó hAilpín was born in Australia, of Fijian parentage (mother).

Alipate Carlile was born in Fiji, of Fijian parentage (mother).

Aaron Edwards was born in Samoa, of Samoan parentage (mother).

Nic Naitanui was born in Australia, of Fijian parentage.

Esava Ratugolea (drafted yesterday by Geelong) was born in Australia, of Fijian parentage.

Israel Folau was born in Australia, of Tongan parentage.

David Rodan was born in Fiji, of Tongan parentage.

Wayne Schwass was born in New Zealand, of Māori heritage.

Donald Dickie was born in New Zealand, of Māori heritage.

Karmichael Hunt was born in New Zealand, of Samoan and Cook Islander parentage.

Not really a massive track record of success to be fair, but who knows how many Islander kids are playing Aussie Rules to begin with?