Worst list in the AFL at present?

[btdg]

St.Kilda is such an interesting team in this debate.

I actually understand why people perceive them to have the worst list due to what appears to be an abundance of B+ players.

However I really rate King, Steele, Marshall and Gresham and have high hopes for Wangerneen-Milera and Marcus Windhager, plus Phillipou and Hotton were players I would have loved Hawthorn to draft.
Also, if Jack Billings, Hunter Clark and Nick Coffield are playing their best footy whilst still being a rung below the players I've already mentioned, the Saints could have a surprisingly good 2023.

They still need it all to go right though. Playing Hawthorn twice will help since we're their new bunnies.

I think it all depends on what you mean by 'worst list'.

St Kilda have probably peaked in this current run as a mid table team. They have a HEAP of players aged 25-28 who are supposed to be peaking now, (that's guys like Ross, Webster, Hill, Crouch, Membrey, Sinclair, Jones, Billings, Marshall, Steele, Wilkie, Howard, Butler). And yet the team is in the boat of 'well, if everyone is healthy they could suprise everyone and maybe finish 5th-6th). Are any of those guys top 5 in the league at their position? Perhaps Marshall, but ruck is such a funny position to judge imo.

So you look instead at the next tier to take them forward: Gresham, Battle, Higgins, Coffield, Clark - all in that 22-24 range and about to peak, and it just looks like more of the same. Solid, good players, but none who look likely to jump to 'elite'.

Max King is the centrepiece, and yet over the past couple of years the KP stocks seem to be booming again. Forward lines seem to be either built around TWO star bigs (Hawkins/Cameron, Curnow/McKay, Lynch/Riewoldt, Naughton/Ugle-Hagan, etc) or around fast, mobile, smaller goalkickers, which St Kilda don't have. So are they putting together a forward line to scare oppositions? I dunno.

That said, their list is extremely solid. They should be able to roll out 22 competitive players as an absolute minimum for the next 5-6 years which is a good platform. There's reasonable balance, particularly if this year's draft crop comes along, and a bunch of guys who are B grade minimum, and who knows - with a new coach, new system, etc - could be better than that.

I'd just pencil them in for 7th-10th for the next 6 years (as a Carlton supporter that sort of mediumness would be a big upgrade so it isn't a criticism... you have to go through mediocre to get to good).

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Like the inclusion of Liam Stocker at the Saints.

The Hawks now officially have the worst list in the AFL.

 

[MisterMarcus]

St Kilda aren't anywhere near the worst list in the AFL. I think they could be the list furthest from the flag but that is simply because they have such a middle of the road list but a middle of the road list is not the worst list.

I actually disagree with this tbh.

One thing you can say about North or Hawthorn is that they know exactly where they are. They accepted their previous lists weren't going to cut it, and are going the rebuild with youth.

In a way, having a mediocre list where you can keep kidding yourself that "just one or two more top up players and we're a chance!" is worse than that. It keeps you trapped in that cycle of finishing 7th-10th: not good enough to challenge but not bad enough to force you to face up to your problems.

 

[St Plugger]

I actually disagree with this tbh.

One thing you can say about North or Hawthorn is that they know exactly where they are. They accepted their previous lists weren't going to cut it, and are going the rebuild with youth.

In a way, having a mediocre list where you can keep kidding yourself that "just one or two more top up players and we're a chance!" is worse than that. It keeps you trapped in that cycle of finishing 7th-10th: not good enough to challenge but not bad enough to force you to face up to your problems.

I do take the point you're trying to make! However, I can say as a long suffering Saints supporter that has endured decades of finishes somewhere in the bottom of the ladder, usually last or thereabouts, I can take a decade of being a Ninethmond clone and I'm probably not the only Saint supporter that feels that way. However it's on economic grounds that St Kilda needs to have a stretch of being at least thereabouts. That way they will be able to wipe off their accumulated debts and get to a sound financial position to withstand a drop, ladder wise like Nth, or make a leap into upper group of teams, as Richmond did!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Like the inclusion of Liam Stocker at the Saints.

The Hawks now officially have the worst list in the AFL.

SOS, is that you?

 

[JackFlash]

Saints, Roos and Hawks..

 

[citizen-erased]

Dons need to be a watchpoint

I think they have straightened out the forward line adding Weideman, Menzie & Davey in the last 12m, plus un-retiring Tippa.
Voss and Baldwin are building as good-ish depth options.

Backline spine and ruck depth still not great.
And lack of star power.

 

[flyinghi64]

Really don't think WCE list is as bad as most think.
History has proven we don't struggle for too long after a disastrous season.
Easy to look like a bad list when over half your starting 22 don't play.

FWIW I think North or Hawks but only because the gap between best/elite players and worst/youngest is quite big.
Generally speaking though the worst list is always going to be the list with most injuries to key players, Saints currently in the lead there I think.

 

[citizen-erased]

Really don't think WCE list is as bad as most think.
History has proven we don't struggle for too long after a disastrous season.
Easy to look like a bad list when over half your starting 22 don't play.

FWIW I think North or Hawks but only because the gap between best/elite players and worst/youngest is quite big.
Generally speaking though the worst list is always going to be the list with most injuries to key players, Saints currently in the lead there I think.

Kelly, Shuey, Gaff Sheed and Yeo are good mids out of the engine room
Chesser, Hewett, Ginbey, Culley and Long were good adds as kids.

Back line is solid. Reckon it's just the forwards outside Darling and at the drop of the ball where it can go hot and cold.
Ruck development too - After NicNat, you've mainly got kids.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

Yep - Rattan is a crap coach but even he could have got that carlton side into the 8. Crazy Vossy on the other hand lol. He's going to waste the talent on your list which will continue to be fun to watch. RTB and his Saints crew of assistants will have us back in the 8 this year and setting up for a crack at the flag. Will be difficult for you guys to watch.

The St Kilda Football Club proud holders of a record breaking 27 wooden spoons and just the 1 flag.

 

[rainwizard39]

Outside of Max King

12

Max King

Age

23

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

, saints just seem to have no A grade talent. Their entire team is filled with grunt ball winners or flaky flankers like Higgins and Billings.

 

[Atomboy]

Outside of Max King, saints just seem to have no A grade talent. Their entire team is filled with grunt ball winners or flaky flankers like Higgins and Billings.

And a couple of All-Australians in Steele and Sinclair. Wilkie worthy of consideration as well.

After that it falls away pretty quickly.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Really don't think WCE list is as bad as most think.
History has proven we don't struggle for too long after a disastrous season.
Easy to look like a bad list when over half your starting 22 don't play.

FWIW I think North or Hawks but only because the gap between best/elite players and worst/youngest is quite big.
Generally speaking though the worst list is always going to be the list with most injuries to key players, Saints currently in the lead there I think.

Name me one elite young player/talent on the Eagles list (least on exposed form)

 

[WillHayward]

Name me one elite young player/talent on the Eagles list (least on exposed form)

Id probably say the only one is Oscar Allen but he is almost 24 so depends on the definition of "young".

 

[windyhill]

Just not feeling it with Essendon, going to be a long season.

 

[WillHayward]

Sounds like you have never watched both players play yet claim they are years away?

If Pedlar can get his body right he will be the most important player in the Adelaide midfield

Averages 14 and 1 in the SANFL.

Adelaide - SANFL

sanfl.com.au

 

[WillHayward]

And a couple of All-Australians in Steele and Sinclair. Wilkie worthy of consideration as well.

After that it falls away pretty quickly.

NWM

 

[krrzr]

Averages 14 and 1 in the SANFL.

Adelaide - SANFL

sanfl.com.au

You should probably watch the players you're criticizing play instead of relying on misleading stats

 

[WillHayward]

You should probably watch the players you're criticizing play instead of relying on misleading stats

Ok.

I'll start tuning into more SANFL games then.

Not criticising him. Just wondering if uve gone a tad early...

 

[Pendleton10]

hawks

 

[EconomicDecline]

Kelly, Shuey, Gaff Sheed and Yeo are good mids out of the engine room

This year they’ll be turning: 29, 33, 31, 28 & 30.

That’s far more dire than other teams mentioned.

 

[flyinghi64]

Name me one elite young player/talent on the Eagles list (least on exposed form)

Well to be fair it is pretty hard to draft young Elite players when you don't have early picks.
This last draft was the first time since the Gaff/Darling draft that we had a couple of early picks.
Chesser is yet to play and Culley only played a handful of games so with them two, Ginbey, Hewett and probably Long none have had "exposed form".
What's a young player? Under 22?
Maybe after this season when we actually get to see some young players run around for WC we can figure out if any are or will be elite.

 

[Purple Suit]

Well to be fair it is pretty hard to draft young Elite players when you don't have early picks.
This last draft was the first time since the Gaff/Darling draft that we had a couple of early picks.
Chesser is yet to play and Culley only played a handful of games so with them two, Ginbey, Hewett and probably Long none have had "exposed form".
What's a young player? Under 22?
Maybe after this season when we actually get to see some young players run around for WC we can figure out if any are or will be elite.

That’s why you have the worst list though. Every team gets a first rounder every year and you’ve blown or traded yours for 5-6 years before the last few where it is too early to tell.

Geelong have had less access to high picks than WC yet seem to have survived.

 

[ralphwiggum]

Geelong have had less access to high picks than WC yet seem to have survived.

Jack Bowes likes this

 

[WillHayward]

Jack Bowes likes this

So does Jhye Clark