Worst list in the AFL at present?

[Rich01]

Exactly. Those who think our list is terrible must think Ratten was some kind of miracle-worker.

Ratten had one season where he got the most out of his group. The others were as expected for the talent on their list.

I’d expect Ross to impact similar in 2023 and 24 before the imbalance in their list brings them back to the 9-14 ladder position again.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Ratten had one season where he got the most out of his group. The others were as expected for the talent on their list.

In his 2nd season we were absolutely smashed with injuries (most number of games missed by best 22 of any team) AND on top of that we had the hardest draw, yet despite both those facts, we still finished just one win outside the 8.

Doesn’t say much about the other teams, if our list is so bad, we were smashed with injuries, and had the hardest draw, yet still finished above 8 of them!

Those other lists must have been diabolical. Or perhaps ours is better than it’s given credit for.

I’d expect Ross to impact similar in 2023 and 24 before the imbalance in their list brings them back to the 9-14 ladder position again.

Cool.

 

[Outtatym]

So Richmond and Geelong aren't good sides. Good story bro.

Even North beat Richmond

 

[MickG88]

Shows where they are at.
Middling.
Their list profile suggests they are like Geelong and Richmond in that they should be primed to win a flag in the next three years. But unfortunately they don’t have the quality.

They don’t have the worst list in the AFL, but aren’t going anywhere with it.

Like Richmond 6 years ago.

 

[Rich01]

Like Richmond 6 years ago.

I wouldn’t compare their 2023 list with our 2017 one. But tell me more about how you did.

 

[MickG88]

But tell me more about how you did.

?? The season hasn't started so how can I tell you how we did. Maybe think about what you want to say before typing.

 

[Giant Pete]

Lost 2 from ur top 10 b and f plus gunston.

So 3 good players gone.

Nah they’re sweet… they’ve got Newcombe.

 

[Rich01]

In his 2nd season we were absolutely smashed with injuries (most number of games missed by best 22 of any team) AND on top of that we had the hardest draw, yet despite both those facts, we still finished just one win outside the 8.

Doesn’t say much about the other teams, if our list is so bad, we were smashed with injuries, and had the hardest draw, yet still finished above 8 of them!

Those other lists must have been diabolical. Or perhaps ours is better than it’s given credit for.

Those 8 teams were in different stages though.
North, West Coast, Adelaide and Hawthorn are going through hard rebuilds. Expect them to suck while they build experience.

GWS has a ‘diabolical’ year. But they keep recruiting junior talent into the club. Solid list that is built for the future.

Essendon are thereabouts with the Saints, although have invested more in the draft in recent years. Sacked their coach last year so yeah I agree with diabolical. Port is around your level as well. Rate their younger group though. Not sure about the coach.

Gold Coast have reset with kids and are on the up. Time will tell whether they can keep their group.

Of this group id rate your competitive set to be Gold Coast, Essendon and Port.

Saints probably should be above this group.
Can’t see them improving faster than teams above them, and teams like Carlton and Freo have quickly passed them by. Might catch the Bullies if they have a bad year and all goes to plan for coach Lyon.

But the big problem isn’t competing, it’s having a list that could contend. And I don’t think they have that. They might shoot up a couple of spots in the short term and consider that a success.

 

[Rich01]

?? The season hasn't started so how can I tell you how we did. Maybe think about what you want to say before typing.

You’re the one calling out the similarities between the 2017 Richmond list and the saints 2023 one. Where are the similarities?

 

[MickG88]

You’re the one calling out the similarities between the 2017 Richmond list and the saints 2023 one. Where are the similarities?

Shows where they are at.
Middling.
Their list profile suggests they are like Geelong and Richmond in that they should be primed to win a flag in the next three years. But unfortunately they don’t have the quality.

They don’t have the worst list in the AFL, but aren’t going anywhere with it.

Richmond were in the same position in 2014 - 2016 as the Saints and were mock with 9thmond, then they clicked and won two flags in a row and a third, two years later. Richmond were middling and their list suggested that there should been contending for a flag. Richmond tinkered with the coaching structure and suddenly your in the grand final a year later.
So, tell me how Saints aren't in a similar position to Richmond 2017?
Also I never mentioned any similarities between the two list, your the one that did.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Saints probably should be above this group.
Can’t see them improving faster than teams above them, and teams like Carlton and Freo have quickly passed them by.

Carlton have quickly passed us by?

They won 1 more game than us last season, off a much easier draw.

They didn’t play any of the top 3 twice, compared to us playing the two grand finalists twice, they played two of the top 6 twice, compared to 4 for us.

They got to play a whopping 16 of their 22 games on their home grounds! We played just 12 at our home ground.

They played just 6 games interstate/Geelong, while we played 8.

They played just two of the top 6 teams interstate, or in Geelong, whereas we played 4 of the top 6 there.

We didn’t play any of the bottom 5 twice, while they played two of them twice.

Yet they won just one more game than us.

 

[TheUnicorn]

St Kilda

 

[puppy_dog7]

Just realised the Saints only beat 2 top 8 sides last year. They had a soft draw in the first half of the season and couldn’t get it done against better sides toward the back end.

Can see them middling out for a couple of years before needing to rebuild.

I wonder what strategy Ross has in place.

3 actually. We beat your mob.

Also beat Geelong and Fremantle in Perth.

You might want to look at Richmond’s draw while you’re at it cos it was a hell of a lot softer than saints last year.

 

[Dazb86]

Richmond were in the same position in 2014 - 2016 as the Saints and were mock with 9thmond, then they clicked and won two flags in a row and a third, two years later. Richmond were middling and their list suggested that there should been contending for a flag. Richmond tinkered with the coaching structure and suddenly your in the grand final a year later.
So, tell me how Saints aren't in a similar position to Richmond 2017?
Also I never mentioned any similarities between the two list, your the one that did.

Out of curiosity who is your Dusty, Cotchin and Rance?

It's also a lot harder for the Saints to build via trade than a club like Richmond. I can't see them landing guys like Prestia and Tom Lynch just due to being a smaller club. Historically the smaller Vic clubs can't land the big fish and get overlooked for the larger clubs in Melbourne.

 

[Dazb86]

3 actually. We beat your mob.

Also beat Geelong and Fremantle in Perth.

You might want to look at Richmond’s draw while you’re at it cos it was a hell of a lot softer than saints last year.

Part of the reason the sides made top 8 is because they doubled up against your mob

 

[BrutThough]

Part of the reason the sides made top 8 is because they doubled up against your mob

Not really. If you reversed the results of those games, those 4 top 6 teams all still make finals.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Part of the reason the sides made top 8 is because they doubled up against your mob

This. My mob was a beneficiary of playing the Saints twice.

 

[disco_cowboy]

i think it has to be st kilda and/or wce

Those of us down the very bottom (north, hawks, dons, gws, crows) have a decent chunk of young early first round draft picks with high potential. They also have the ability to be ruthless with their respective lists, cutting out those they see as good but not good enough. These lists might be currently putting up results but have the flexibility to bring in quality draft kids to improve them.

West Coast, as has been said already, have a lot of ageing stars but not much coming through the ranks. They clearly have identified this with their picks this draft, taking 2 firsts. I expect them to be bottom 4 for at least 2-3 years while they completely reshape their list.

St Kilda is probably the hardest on here, I don't see where the list improves to push them into a top 4 team and compete with Cats, Lions, Dees - and i don't see the mechanisms they can use to do it either. Players like Zac Jones, Brad Crouch and Dan Butler are good bit players to put around a Dusty or Dangerfield but not a Steele. Maybe a new system, a new coach and a bit of luck proves me wrong and they get every drop of talent of each player on their list and this time next year im saying the billings is a top 10 midfielder in the comp and max king kicks 60.

 

[Psicosis]

Since when is just drafting sliders overlooked by other clubs, the makings of an elite draft haul?

Saints have the worst list in the comp by a fair way, due to poor drafting & sacrificing picks for b & c grade maturity.

 

[The acurate one]

I keep reading this. It’s almost like his last 3 years at Hawthorn didn’t happen and someone else was coaching, isn’t it.

So out of the 17 blardy years al clarko coached the Hawks you focus on only the last three years.
I've been around long enough to understand how this caper works. There are three types of coaches, good ones, bad ones and those they stay to long.

North my team has ticked everyone of those boxes. Brad was good, then overstayed became complacent. Shaw and Noble are both not AFL coaches. Our assistant coaches were bog average and I'm being kind.

I chat to a fella associated with North and the entire club hasn't been this positive and confident in a very long-time. al clarko like everyone else cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

What he can do and is achieving is ensuring the squad are best prepared for the coming season and have an understanding of what it takes to be successful and to be the very best footballer that you can. Oh and a game plan


I think the Roos are going to surprise or piss off a few around here, sooner than they expect.

 

[rye]

Since when is just drafting sliders overlooked by other clubs, the makings of an elite draft haul?

Saints have the worst list in the comp by a fair way, due to poor drafting & sacrificing picks for b & c grade maturity.

saints have proven A graders on their list. north have not one unless you still count goldstein

regardless of what north melbourne supporters believe, having a plethora of high draft picks on your list does not necessarily make it a good one. gold coast for most of its existence as a club is proof of that.

maybe wait and see how these kids go at afl level before going for the early crow.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

So out of the 17 blardy years al clarko coached the Hawks you focus on only the last three years.
I've been around long enough to understand how this caper works. There are three types of coaches, good ones, bad ones and those they stay to long.

North my team has ticked everyone of those boxes. Brad was good, then overstayed became complacent. Shaw and Noble are both not AFL coaches. Our assistant coaches were bog average and I'm being kind.

I chat to a fella associated with North and the entire club hasn't been this positive and confident in a very long-time. al clarko like everyone else cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

What he can do and is achieving is ensuring the squad are best prepared for the coming season and have an understanding of what it takes to be successful and to be the very best footballer than can. Oh and a game plan


I think the Roos are going to surprise or piss off a few around here, sooner than they expect.

Yes, of course I will focus on the last 3 years, because that’s when we were at our worst, with a side that should’ve been so much better, but Clarkson had us playing some really turgid and defensive footy where we’d hold better sides for 2 quarters to very little score, but couldn’t score ourselves. In some of these games our players simply gave in and got belted by 12+ goals and it took players like McEvoy to tell Clarkson that the gameplan wasn’t working before he changed at at the halfway mark of the year.

I have no issue with Clarkson topping up and trying to win more flags, because a lot went wrong in that time which didn’t help(rough’s cancer, Rioli retirement, Tom’s leg break, etc), but even Clarkson’s biggest supporters had to admit that the gameplan in the last 3 years for the most part was pretty ordinary. So much so that we handed winless clubs and eventual spoon winners their first victories of the year.

When opposition posters now just blindly claim that Clarkson will be the difference with his coaching without referencing that how poor it had gotten was in fact a big part of why he was moved on, there needs to be a reality check.

 

[Psicosis]

saints have proven A graders on their list. north have not one unless you still count goldstein

regardless of what north melbourne supporters believe, having a plethora of high draft picks on your list does not necessarily make it a good one. gold coast for most of its existence as a club is proof of that.

maybe wait and see how these kids go at afl level before going for the early crow.

imaginary A graders.

Oh I’m happy to give it time, however the amount of Saints supporters talking up their 22 draft haul requires checking. Sliders slide for a reason.

 

[rye]

imaginary A graders.

Oh I’m happy to give it time, however the amount of Saints supporters talking up their 22 draft haul requires checking. Sliders slide for a reason.

if you dont think steele and sinclair are A graders you have rocks in your head.

dont think it would be too much of a stretch to give King that label either

 

[ChristianBoy]

imaginary A graders.

Oh I’m happy to give it time, however the amount of Saints supporters talking up their 22 draft haul requires checking. Sliders slide for a reason.

Saints list is in a great space only lacking a forward structure and luck with injury.