You can't prove it but you still kinda know its true NBA thread...

[kozi]

He becomes Rondo?

Please don't tell me you're comparing Rondo's handles and finishing to Steph's

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Please don't tell me you're comparing Rondo's handles and finishing to Steph's

Finishing, no; although he's been good this year.
Handles and passing if he had the leeway Steph does he probably could do it but alas he plays on a far more stifled and dysfunctional team.

 

[kozi]

Finishing, no; although he's been good this year.
Handles and passing if he had the leeway Steph does he probably could do it but alas he plays on a far more stifled and dysfunctional team.

From the most unbiased view I can reach Rondo's handles and finishing don't come close even if he was afforded the same leeway. Passing they're on the same level though, both excellent.

 

[stewie griffen]

That rubio fellow can pass the ball ok

 

[didaksrightfoot]

From the most unbiased view I can reach Rondo's handles and finishing don't come close even if he was afforded the same leeway. Passing they're on the same level though, both excellent.

Even ignoring the teams they are on, Rondo's jumpshot is completely ignored by defenders, which makes it much, much harder for him to drive/dish. Defenders have a much harder time stopping Steph's driving, because they know he can shoot it from anywhere, at anytime. A switched on/peak Rondo (which we haven't really seen for 5+ years), finishing ability up close was just as good as Stephs - in fact this season he's going at 74% at the basket.
Rondo is/was also an elite Defender - something Steph can't claim to be anywhere close to.

Unfortunately for Rondo, he never developed any type of jumpshot, and once his team stopped playing at an Elite level, he completely switched off mentally - and has never been able to get that back.
But make no mistake of how good Rondo was in the good years, or how good he could have been if he maintained that, or developed as a player instead of declining. A Rajon Rondo with Steph's jumpshot would be an MVP-level player IMO.

The thing is, we can't magically compare what they would be like with/wouthout that jumpshot, or in a different team environment. All we can say is that Rondo was very good at his peak, but has develved very much so since then, while Curry is playing at HoF levels for the last couple of years, with an Elite team, and doesn't look like stopping anytime soon.

 

[djrossie16]

That rubio fellow can pass the ball ok

 

[kozi]

Even ignoring the teams they are on, Rondo's jumpshot is completely ignored by defenders, which makes it much, much harder for him to drive/dish. Defenders have a much harder time stopping Steph's driving, because they know he can shoot it from anywhere, at anytime. A switched on/peak Rondo (which we haven't really seen for 5+ years), finishing ability up close was just as good as Stephs - in fact this season he's going at 74% at the basket.
Rondo is/was also an elite Defender - something Steph can't claim to be anywhere close to.

Unfortunately for Rondo, he never developed any type of jumpshot, and once his team stopped playing at an Elite level, he completely switched off mentally - and has never been able to get that back.
But make no mistake of how good Rondo was in the good years, or how good he could have been if he maintained that, or developed as a player instead of declining. A Rajon Rondo with Steph's jumpshot would be an MVP-level player IMO.

The thing is, we can't magically compare what they would be like with/wouthout that jumpshot, or in a different team environment. All we can say is that Rondo was very good at his peak, but has develved very much so since then, while Curry is playing at HoF levels for the last couple of years, with an Elite team, and doesn't look like stopping anytime soon.

Rondo's handles and finishing are very good, nobody is going to deny that.

Steph's handles are better.
Steph's finishing around the rim is better.
Jump shot isn't worth even discussing.

Passing they are on about the same level. /end

 

[fidstar]

Rondo's handles and finishing are very good, nobody is denying that.

Steph's handles are better.
Steph's finishing around the rim is better.
Jump shot isn't worth even discussing.

Passing they are on about the same level. /end

You missed Steph > Rondo mentally

 

[stewie griffen]

You missed Steph > Rondo mentally

But Rondo is blacker than Steph

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Bandwagons exist

 

[EddieWalker]

Bandwagons exist

Pretty sure this one can be proven! Look at the Bulls support in the 90's, Lakers support early 00's, the Heat and Cavs' fans jumping off and on, the Dubs now. Hell even the Nets became popular for a little while after Jay-Z bought them and they looked like they might be a good team!

Only problem with Bandwagons is that it gets used with very broad brush strokes and lots and lots of assumption.

 

[kozi]

CP3 will retire with 0 rings.

 

[kozi]

Pretty sure this one can be proven! Look at the Bulls support in the 90's, Lakers support early 00's, the Heat and Cavs' fans jumping off and on, the Dubs now. Hell even the Nets became popular for a little while after Jay-Z bought them and they looked like they might be a good team!

Only problem with Bandwagons is that it gets used with very broad brush strokes and lots and lots of assumption.

To the simple minded folk like LTM4G, anyone who supports a team at the top is a bandwagoner.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Rondo's handles and finishing are very good, nobody is going to deny that.

Steph's handles are better.
Steph's finishing around the rim is better.
Jump shot isn't worth even discussing.

Passing they are on about the same level. /end

I agree on handles.
I don't agree on finishing at the rim. (talking peak Rondo).
Agree Jumpshot isnt worth considering - but lets also not ignore the defensive side. (again, talking a peak/interested Rondo)

No one is saying Rondo is anywhere near Currys level.

The original comment was about what Curry would be like without a jumpshot. I dont agree with original poster who said "mediocre", but i do agree that the followup conparison to a switched on Rondo isnt that far off.

 

[kozi]

I agree on handles.
I don't agree on finishing at the rim. (talking peak Rondo).
Agree Jumpshot isnt worth considering - but lets also not ignore the defensive side. (again, talking a peak/interested Rondo)

No one is saying Rondo is anywhere near Currys level.

The original comment was about what Curry would be like without a jumpshot. I dont agree with original poster who said "mediocre", but i do agree that the followup conparison to a switched on Rondo isnt that far off.

Think we'll have to agree to disagree about the finishing side of things. For mine even Rondo at his peak wasn't as good. He was a great finisher but didn't get it done over 6''10 - 7 footers with the same level of consistency and his floater isn't on the same level. Everything else I'm happy with. No question Rondo is a better defender, but the mental side of the game cannot be ignored either as fidstar pointed out.

 

[Oliver King]

I agree on handles.
I don't agree on finishing at the rim. (talking peak Rondo).

He wasn't very good at the rim when he started in the NBA, but over the last couple years he's quietly developed that part of his game to an elite level.
(BTW, I'm not arguing one way or the other re: Curry/peak Rondo, just saying that Curry is a pretty good finisher at the rim these days.)

 

[kozi]

He wasn't very good at the rim when he started in the NBA, but over the last couple years he's quietly developed that part of his game to an elite level.
(BTW, I'm not arguing one way or the other re: Curry/peak Rondo, just saying that Curry is a pretty good finisher at the rim these days.)

Must also be taken into account that Steph takes a lot of shots at the rim whilst it's being heavily guarded. He's not afraid to go high off glass over a Center or take the contact and finish around them with a 1 hand scoop. Rondo's shots at the rim are mostly when he's got a lane to the basket (i.e defense not within arms length at his point of release) and usually dishes it off if confronted. If Rondo attempted the same amount of contested shots at the rim his % would be significantly lower.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

Must also be taken into account that Steph takes a lot of shots at the rim whilst it's being heavily guarded. He's not afraid to go high off glass over a Center or take the contact and finish around them with a 1 hand scoop. Rondo's shots at the rim are mostly when he's got a lane to the basket (i.e defense not within arms length at his point of release) and usually dishes it off if confronted. If Rondo attempted the same amount of contested shots at the rim his % would be significantly lower.

You should have seen the contested reverse lay-up Rondo hit today Hipster Doofus

 

[kozi]

You should have seen the contested reverse lay-up Rondo hit today Hipster Doofus

What's the point of chiming in with 1 example. Didn't say he isn't capable of doing it, just that he does it a lot less. Let's be honest, for every 1 shot Rondo makes like that Steph makes at least 5.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

What's the point of chiming in with 1 example.

Sigh.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

You should have seen the contested reverse lay-up Rondo hit today Hipster Doofus

What's the point of chiming in with 1 example. Didn't say he isn't capable of doing it, just that he does it a lot less. Let's be honest, for every 1 shot Rondo makes like that Steph makes at least 5.

The past two weeks Rondo has been excellent, and his finishing at the rim taking point guards off the dribble and swooping straight under defences for a reverse/under the rim layup has been a talking point amongst Kings fans, it's been seriously impressive and not just because he sometimes pulls off a clever layup but because he's doing it so consistently I'm no longer cringing when he iso's his man and completely controls the tempo of the game.
His passing has been well documented and some of his cuts and dishes are as good as the Rondo the causal fan would remember from the great Celtics team.
He went 0/1 today from deep, but yesterday I looked and he's shooting 36% from three. It's respectable and he's only taking those shots from kick outs when he's wide open so I have no issue with it. His midrange game is just okay but again he's always looking to pass and takes them if he's left wide open.
His free throws leaves a lot to be desired still but he's not getting fouled at all, hack-a-rondo has occurred once but he handled it better than I thought.
And his defence is improving but he along with the team just have a terrible defensive set-up without Cousins anchoring the middle.

Overall he's been the shining light so far, he's nowhere near done and the fact that the team is still gelling with him excites me.
Steph's GOAT shooting and his license to be flashy with shooters all around him to kick it to are what set them apart.

 

[kozi]

Sigh.

? It's like someone coming into a Paul George v Kawhi discussion about their careers and saying did you see that 1 shot George hit.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Must also be taken into account that Steph takes a lot of shots at the rim whilst it's being heavily guarded. He's not afraid to go high off glass over a Center or take the contact and finish around them with a 1 hand scoop. Rondo's shots at the rim are mostly when he's got a lane to the basket (i.e defense not within arms length at his point of release) and usually dishes it off if confronted. If Rondo attempted the same amount of contested shots at the rim his % would be significantly lower.

It's actually the opposite IMO.

Defenders stay back from Rondo - they have no reason to contest his jumpshot, and its much harder getting into the lane against an opponent who only has one job - stopping you from getting to the lane. Steph has defenders who's main focus is stopping that jumpshot, and they have to respect that anywhere in the front half. You get the first step on someone in that situation, and it is suddenly a lot easier getting to the lane uncontested (particularly when the team around is mostly jumpshooters that all have to be respected by the defenders). Clearly Curry is elite, there is no doubting that, I just think you are largely underestimating how good Rondo was at his peak. (And remember the comparison here isnt Rondo vs Curry. Its Rondo vs Curry without a jumpshot)

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Think we'll have to agree to disagree about the finishing side of things. For mine even Rondo at his peak wasn't as good. He was a great finisher but didn't get it done over 6''10 - 7 footers with the same level of consistency and his floater isn't on the same level. Everything else I'm happy with. No question Rondo is a better defender, but the mental side of the game cannot be ignored either as djrossie pointed out.

Also just re: the mental side.
It's easy to look at Rondo now and see him as the Lance Stephenson/Deron Williams mental clone who hasn't been switched on for years. But Rondo in the Finals years was a competitive beast - it just needed to be channelled right by KG/Pierce/Doc.
It's clearly all hypotheticals, but if those guys around him were 5 years younger, and he continued to develop on a team that remained competitive at that level, then Rondo's career could've looked very different.
Clearly though history has played out and theres no doubting that without those guys around him he just completely switched off mentally and will never be the same player again.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

It's actually the opposite IMO.

Defenders stay back from Rondo - they have no reason to contest his jumpshot, and its much harder getting into the lane against an opponent who only has one job - stopping you from getting to the lane. Steph has defenders who's main focus is stopping that jumpshot, and they have to respect that anywhere in the front half. You get the first step on someone in that situation, and it is suddenly a lot easier getting to the lane uncontested (particularly when the team around is mostly jumpshooters that all have to be respected by the defenders). Clearly Curry is elite, there is no doubting that, I just think you are largely underestimating how good Rondo was at his peak. (And remember the comparison here isnt Rondo vs Curry. Its Rondo vs Curry without a jumpshot)

Pros and cons for both clearly, but I think this is a fair point. Also throw in the significant regression of elite rim protectors from peak-Rondo to now. That's why such discussions are always hard to have as you're never comparing like with like as we know. Rondo was always a great rebounder as well. Even without a jump shot though, Curry would have the tools to be elite.