Club Focus Carlton 2023

[Jeremias]

Data from footywire. To check the draft order see the thread here.

Footywire says: "While we make every effort to keep up to date with player contracts, it is likely that our data may at times be out of date, incomplete or inaccurate. If you find any player contracts that need updating, please let us know using our brand new contract submission form."

 

[Mostyn]

Ed Curnow is almost certainly playing his last season.
Fogarty will go for sure and likely Dow also.
Cuningham Marchbank and Philp are OOC and can’t get on the park = in serious danger of being delisted.
Plowman is break glass only if he’s lucky and could be gone.
McGovern is OOC, no disputing his ability but he’ll need to play consistently this season to continue and he’d be in line for a decent “haircut” in any case.
Martin likewise next year.
Plenty of money to be freed up at season’s end should it be needed …

Don't you have a few extensions contracted to begin next year?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Herald Sun's Sam Landsberger is speculating that Carlton could seek inspiration from the Bowes trade, and offer a smaller Victorian club Williams with their first rounder.

Source: https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...n/news-story/52be6aa15c062e7a182daef7e7b76603

Reckon most North fans would take that deal every day of the week.

Zach Williams is on HOW MUCH?

 

[longdonkey]

Carlton need to raid free agency and build up their bottom 20 players with a few guys that have experience but can't get regular games at their current clubs, but that are also not too expensive for the cap. It shouldn't be too hard to find better than what you have, because you've got 10 really good players then your list falls off a cliff.

Its a better option than getting rid of Williams and a high pick.

I won't suggest any individual players because I'm sure your heads would explode.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

We will be shifting some key players end of year

 

[Yoda_]

We will be shifting some key players end of year

Ill happily give you our first for Sam Walsh

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Ill happily give you our first for Sam Walsh

Think the point of it will be more to build the team around players like Walsh who are suited to the modern game.

 

[Tonythetiger]

I feel like they need a Collingwood style fire sale. Get rid of the players they feel are not going to take them forward and whose contracted status are a hindrance to getting better players in. If Voss is the man, back him in with better assistants and formulate a game plan around the strengths of the list and identify/draft players that suit this style.

If Voss isn't the man, you get him out and start the interview process with the need for someone to come in with a style of play that the whole club can get behind.

Comparisons to Richmond are the review in 2016 and they way we recruited players to suit our game plan. Would a guy like Castagna get a game anywhere else? Unlikely but he suited our gamestyle.

If you take a step forward, fantastic, if you take a step back for a couple of years you get a few chances at getting the very high end talent required.

As an outsider, it looks like the mercenaries like McGovern, Williams and Martin are a big part of the problem.

 

[Sphynx]

I feel like they need a Collingwood style fire sale. Get rid of the players they feel are not going to take them forward and whose contracted status are a hindrance to getting better players in. If Voss is the man, back him in with better assistants and formulate a game plan around the strengths of the list and identify/draft players that suit this style.

If Voss isn't the man, you get him out and start the interview process with the need for someone to come in with a style of play that the whole club can get behind.

Comparisons to Richmond are the review in 2016 and they way we recruited players to suit our game plan. Would a guy like Castagna get a game anywhere else? Unlikely but he suited our gamestyle.

If you take a step forward, fantastic, if you take a step back for a couple of years you get a few chances at getting the very high end talent required.

As an outsider, it looks like the mercenaries like McGovern, Williams and Martin are a big part of the problem.

They will have to part with their top pick to get rid of most of those bad contracts.

GC/Geelong proof of the market rate.

 

[CasuallyDressed]

I feel like they need a Collingwood style fire sale. Get rid of the players they feel are not going to take them forward and whose contracted status are a hindrance to getting better players in. If Voss is the man, back him in with better assistants and formulate a game plan around the strengths of the list and identify/draft players that suit this style.

If Voss isn't the man, you get him out and start the interview process with the need for someone to come in with a style of play that the whole club can get behind.

Comparisons to Richmond are the review in 2016 and they way we recruited players to suit our game plan. Would a guy like Castagna get a game anywhere else? Unlikely but he suited our gamestyle.

If you take a step forward, fantastic, if you take a step back for a couple of years you get a few chances at getting the very high end talent required.

As an outsider, it looks like the mercenaries like McGovern, Williams and Martin are a big part of the problem.

The difference is they have nothing of value other than the 5 players they wouldn't trade.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I don't think they need to trade anyone out. They just need to "dance with the shoes they've got". Don't sack Voss, maybe churn the assistants.

The main thing I think they need is an agreed weak point in the system. Strategy is driven by covering a deficiency with a strength. If you don't identify weaknesses then you don't have a strategy. If you don't have a strategy then there's no game plan to buy into. That's the problem.

They have good players on every line and no one can identify whose job it is to do what because they feel like everyone should be able to beat their opponents. No one can tell them what their losses are supposed to look like.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

There are rumours on our board that a few notable names will be departing/requesting trades come end of year and that we want to get more picks early in the first round. Two top 10 picks in this draft could go a long way to rebalancing our list.

 

[briztoon]

There are rumours on our board that a few notable names will be departing/requesting trades come end of year and that we want to get more picks early in the first round. Two top 10 picks in this draft could go a long way to rebalancing our list.

Who's genuinely worth a top 10 pick on your list, that you would be happy/willing to see move to another club?

I feel the only way you're getting a second top 10 pick is to trade for Gold Coast's first round pick, and the catch with obtaining that pick, is that it will be a live draft night trade, meaning that you have to take 2 or 3 second round picks to the draft, to then trade for GC's first round pick.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Who's genuinely worth a top 10 pick on your list, that you would be happy/willing to see move to another club?

I feel the only way you're getting a second top 10 pick is to trade for Gold Coast's first round pick, and the catch with obtaining that pick, is that it will be a live draft night trade, meaning that you have to take 2 or 3 second round picks to the draft, to then trade for GC's first round pick.

Well thats currently being debated on our board. TDK Mcgovern, Kennedy, Fisher and Silvagni would all get us alright picks. TDK somewhere between 15-30, Mcgovern and Kennedy somewhere between 25-40 each and Fisher and Silvagni probably 35-50ish. That's from a Carlton supporter trying to be as unbiased as possible, some might be higher or lower, but they're just rough estimates.

That still leaves us nowhere near the top 10 outside our 2023 first unless we packaged them all up for Gold Coasts pick to get them points for Walter, Read and Rogers though.

But...

We've also got 2 father sons expected to be within the first and 2nd round of the draft in 2024 so we'll likely be trading out of that draft and trying to get another pick inside 10-15 for this year.

If we could get 2 top 10 picks this year from our 2023 and 2024 picks with a few sprinkles on top, lets say pick 20 for TDK and a couple of picks around 30-40 for the rest of the guys I think that would go a long way to addressing things.

Then there's the unknowns of potentially someone like Saad requesting a trade to a contender, Cripps asking to go home... None of us know what's going to happen but I think we're in an alright spot flexibility wise with levers to pull. Just need other clubs to be open to coming to the table.

 

[briztoon]

Well thats currently being debated on our board. TDK Mcgovern, Kennedy, Fisher and Silvagni would all get us alright picks. TDK somewhere between 15-30, Mcgovern and Kennedy somewhere between 25-40 each and Fisher and Silvagni probably 35-50ish. That's from a Carlton supporter trying to be as unbiased as possible, some might be higher or lower, but they're just rough estimates.

That still leaves us nowhere near the top 10 outside our 2023 first unless we packaged them all up for Gold Coasts pick to get them points for Walter, Read and Rogers though.

But...

We've also got 2 father sons expected to be within the first and 2nd round of the draft in 2024 so we'll likely be trading out of that draft and trying to get another pick inside 10-15 for this year.

If we could get 2 top 10 picks this year from our 2023 and 2024 picks with a few sprinkles on top, lets say pick 20 for TDK and a couple of picks around 30-40 for the rest of the guys I think that would go a long way to addressing things.

Then there's the unknowns of potentially someone like Saad requesting a trade to a contender, Cripps asking to go home... None of us know what's going to happen but I think we're in an alright spot flexibility wise with levers to pull. Just need other clubs to be open to coming to the table.

TDK will get you Geelong’s future second round pick. They don’t have one this year.

McGovern is a prime delisting candidate, or a pick in the 50’s, or a future 3rd round pick.

Kennedy a pick in the 40’s. The same reason you’re wanting to get rid of him, is the same reason why other teams won’t pay much for him.

Fisher, pick in the 40’s or 50’s.

Silvagni I actually rate, and would keep a hold of.

If I was an opposition team, I wouldn’t be willing to trade pick 10 for your future first.

If you went really hard core and stripped your list, maybe I might trade picks 9 or 10 for your future first, if I believe you’re going to bottom 3.

Problem is next year’s draft might be even more compromised than this year’s. Lots of teams have father sons and academy kids in next year’s draft.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

TDK will get you Geelong’s future second round pick. They don’t have one this year.

McGovern is a prime delisting candidate, or a pick in the 50’s, or a future 3rd round pick.

Kennedy a pick in the 40’s. The same reason you’re wanting to get rid of him, is the same reason why other teams won’t pay much for him.

Fisher, pick in the 40’s or 50’s.

Silvagni I actually rate, and would keep a hold of.

If I was an opposition team, I wouldn’t be willing to trade pick 10 for your future first.

If you went really hard core and stripped your list, maybe I might trade picks 9 or 10 for your future first, if I believe you’re going to bottom 3.

Problem is next year’s draft might be even more compromised than this year’s. Lots of teams have father sons and academy kids in next year’s draft.

Why on earth would we accept a future second round pick for TDK, a player that multiple clubs have reportedly thrown big money at? We'd be asking for a pick this year or telling them to bugger off and we'll deal with someone else that will given we're likely not even going to use the picks next season.

Mcgovern will be playing somewhere else next year imo. He's a handy player even if he's much maligned due to his contract at Carlton.

Think that's underrating Kennedy who is a good B grade player. Lipinski a couple of years ago got pick 43 and Kennedy has outperformed Lipinksi pre trade over the last couple of years. I think he'd get something around the early to mid 30s. The reason we'd be trying to get rid of him is because we have a lack of run and spread in our midfield due to Cripps. Someone like Sydney would be a great fit for a player like Kennedy who have plenty of runners but lack strength over the ball.

Fisher agreed, 40s-50s about right.

Sivagni couldn't disagree with you more but that's okay. I'd be disappointed if he was playing for Carlton next year. Would take a 3rd or 4th for him.

 

[Mostyn]

Why on earth would we accept a future second round pick for TDK, a player that multiple clubs have reportedly thrown big money at? We'd be asking for a pick this year or telling them to bugger off and we'll deal with someone else that will given we're likely not even going to use the picks next season.

TDK will tell you what club he's going to.

That club will give you what they have available in the 2nd round over the next two years. You'll try to get value for the departing player.

You don't get to turn that club down and go speak to another.

 

[Mostyn]

Mcgovern will be playing somewhere else next year imo. He's a handy player even if he's much maligned due to his contract at Carlton.

Think that's underrating Kennedy who is a good B grade player. Lipinski a couple of years ago got pick 43 and Kennedy has outperformed Lipinksi pre trade over the last couple of years. I think he'd get something around the early to mid 30s. The reason we'd be trying to get rid of him is because we have a lack of run and spread in our midfield due to Cripps. Someone like Sydney would be a great fit for a player like Kennedy who have plenty of runners but lack strength over the ball.

Fisher agreed, 40s-50s about right.

Sivagni couldn't disagree with you more but that's okay. I'd be disappointed if he was playing for Carlton next year. Would take a 3rd or 4th for him.

You have to remember - these are the unwanted players from a bad team. If anyone rated them, it would be because of what they're doing, and if they were doing well you'd be better.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

TDK will tell you what club he's going to.

That club will give you what they have available in the 2nd round over the next two years. You'll try to get value for the departing player.

You don't get to turn that club down and go speak to another.

Yes you do, thats been a factor for years. If Christian Petracca asked for a trade to Sydney but Sydney only had a late first rounder the clubs and managers would tell him a deal isn't going to be possible and if he's still adamant on leaving then to find somewhere else.

Shiel years back looked like Essendon wasn't going to pony up 2 firsts for him and thus a late play by Carlton was made which GWS publically acknowledged, Essendon in retaliation stumped up the price but if they weren't going to another deal was entirely possible. Cerra for us a few years back too - Seemed he was leaning towards Melbourne, but they didn't have the currency Freo was demanding so he nominated Carlton.

Clubs have to pony up the market rate for players and provide clubs with a fair and valued pick or player in return. If Carlton have 0 need or interest in a future 2nd they'd be telling Tom either find somewhere else or you'll be going through the PSD, or re-sign at Carlton. How trading has always worked.

 

[Punts]

There are rumours on our board that a few notable names will be departing/requesting trades come end of year and that we want to get more picks early in the first round. Two top 10 picks in this draft could go a long way to rebalancing our list.

Who are they?

 

[Rich01]

There are rumours on our board that a few notable names will be departing/requesting trades come end of year and that we want to get more picks early in the first round. Two top 10 picks in this draft could go a long way to rebalancing our list.

That’s not surprising.

Guys like Dow, JSOS, Fisher, Cuningham, Philp, McGovern, LOB, Ed Curnow, Durdin, Marchbank, Honey, Plowman could all depart without a whimper and would barely impact the output of your best 22.

Not would have much currency though.
JSOS, Fisher, Dow, McGovern may get bites with picks in the 50-60s.

Carlton would bite the hand off anyone offering a first rounder for TDK.

Kennedy will stay but if he left he’s a Setterfield type trade as well (pick 50ish). With Dow and Setterfield gone, he has to stay.

The big one will revolve around the murmurings of discontent in the playing group and the role Cripps has in the club being too player led. If they decide the best way forward is without Cripps, they will need to manage the messaging to ensure they receive maximum return for him.
He’s got a decent contract on him seeing him out for another four years after this year which may drop his return as well.

Can’t see anyone else of value being traded.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Who are they?

Only speculating amongst fans atm. Just been told by our 'ITK' posters and some members of the media on their podcasts etc to prepare for some possible shock and horror.

My guess would be out of our 'star' players the most likely would be - Saad, Docherty, Cripps, Harry. Can't see the club letting Charlie Walsh or Cerra go under any circumstance.

Apparently Lewis Young and Weitering don't have a good relationship atm too so he's every chance to be someone who could be involved. Might look at replacing him to pair Ben Mckay and Weitering or something like that.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

That’s not surprising.

Guys like Dow, JSOS, Fisher, Cuningham, Philp, McGovern, LOB, Ed Curnow, Durdin, Marchbank, Honey, Plowman could all depart without a whimper and would barely impact the output of your best 22.

Not would have much currency though.
JSOS, Fisher, Dow, McGovern may get bites with picks in the 50-60s.

Carlton would bite the hand off anyone offering a first rounder for TDK.

Kennedy will stay but if he left he’s a Setterfield type trade as well (pick 50ish). With Dow and Setterfield gone, he has to stay.

The big one will revolve around the murmurings of discontent in the playing group and the role Cripps has in the club being too player led. If they decide the best way forward is without Cripps, they will need to manage the messaging to ensure they receive maximum return for him.
He’s got a decent contract on him seeing him out for another four years after this year which may drop his return as well.

Can’t see anyone else of value being traded.

Agreed. Don't agree with the valuations of others but I really wouldn't bat an eyelid if most of them departed.

Someone who's had inside word previously said yesterday that he's been told as many as 15 players could be traded/requesting trades come end of year.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Why on earth would we accept a future second round pick for TDK, a player that multiple clubs have reportedly thrown big money at? We'd be asking for a pick this year or telling them to bugger off and we'll deal with someone else that will given we're likely not even going to use the picks next season.

Mcgovern will be playing somewhere else next year imo. He's a handy player even if he's much maligned due to his contract at Carlton.

Think that's underrating Kennedy who is a good B grade player. Lipinski a couple of years ago got pick 43 and Kennedy has outperformed Lipinksi pre trade over the last couple of years. I think he'd get something around the early to mid 30s. The reason we'd be trying to get rid of him is because we have a lack of run and spread in our midfield due to Cripps. Someone like Sydney would be a great fit for a player like Kennedy who have plenty of runners but lack strength over the ball.

Fisher agreed, 40s-50s about right.

Sivagni couldn't disagree with you more but that's okay. I'd be disappointed if he was playing for Carlton next year. Would take a 3rd or 4th for him.

The multiple reports are just Kane Cornes baiting media for clicks. As you said, you'll need the points next year

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The multiple reports are just Kane Cornes baiting media for clicks. As you said, you'll need the points next year

We won't need the points next year, we've got a full stack of picks for the 2024 draft. If anything we'll be trying to trade out of it.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

There are rumours on our board that a few notable names will be departing/requesting trades come end of year and that we want to get more picks early in the first round. Two top 10 picks in this draft could go a long way to rebalancing our list.

Makes sense. The list needs more solid B and B+ players and C graders who are committed to the role assigned them. Funding their acquisition through trades might require one big salary dump of an A grader.

I don’t like the term list clogger but I reckon there are around 10 players who might do a bit better elsewhere. Two or three might get a go at other Clubs. Late 4th rounders may do the trick or better of the receiving Club picks up the Contract.