Club Focus Carlton 2023

[Jeremias]

Data from footywire. To check the draft order see the thread here.

Footywire says: "While we make every effort to keep up to date with player contracts, it is likely that our data may at times be out of date, incomplete or inaccurate. If you find any player contracts that need updating, please let us know using our brand new contract submission form."

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Makes sense. The list needs more solid B and B+ players and C graders who are committed to the role assigned them. Funding their acquisition through trades might require one big salary dump of an A grader.

I don’t like the term list clogger but I reckon there are around 10 players who might do a bit better elsewhere. Two or three might get a go at other Clubs. Late 4th rounders may do the trick or better of the receiving Club picks up the Contract.

Agreed, a lot of our players either aren't up to it or simply don't compliment the players around them. Kennedy as an example is a decent player but a mix of Kennedy, Cripps, Hewett and Cerra doesn't work. They can win contested ball each but get torched by opposition runners. Even TDK - Doesn't work well in our mix due to Harry and Charlie clogging his airways up forward and Pittonet being a ruck only.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Agreed, a lot of our players either aren't up to it or simply don't compliment the players around them. Kennedy as an example is a decent player but a mix of Kennedy, Cripps, Hewett and Cerra doesn't work. They can win contested ball each but get torched by opposition runners. Even TDK - Doesn't work well in our mix due to Harry and Charlie clogging his airways up forward and Pittonet being a ruck only.

Agree. Too many blokes with similar characteristics in your mids. Setterfield was another and he is proving a better fit at the Dons. Kennedy is one with trade value and may be attractive to a Club with a fleet of smaller mids.

 

[sydney_gws]

I feel like they need a Collingwood style fire sale. Get rid of the players they feel are not going to take them forward and whose contracted status are a hindrance to getting better players in. If Voss is the man, back him in with better assistants and formulate a game plan around the strengths of the list and identify/draft players that suit this style.

If Voss isn't the man, you get him out and start the interview process with the need for someone to come in with a style of play that the whole club can get behind.

Comparisons to Richmond are the review in 2016 and they way we recruited players to suit our game plan. Would a guy like Castagna get a game anywhere else? Unlikely but he suited our gamestyle.

If you take a step forward, fantastic, if you take a step back for a couple of years you get a few chances at getting the very high end talent required.

As an outsider, it looks like the mercenaries like McGovern, Williams and Martin are a big part of the problem.

Who was responsible for offering those big contracts? Was it SOS?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Who was responsible for offering those big contracts? Was it SOS?

Mcgovern and Martin were SOS

 

[briztoon]

Why on earth would we accept a future second round pick for TDK, a player that multiple clubs have reportedly thrown big money at? We'd be asking for a pick this year or telling them to bugger off and we'll deal with someone else that will given we're likely not even going to use the picks next season.

.

What he said.

TDK will tell you what club he's going to.

That club will give you what they have available in the 2nd round over the next two years. You'll try to get value for the departing player.

You don't get to turn that club down and go speak to another.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Well thats currently being debated on our board. TDK Mcgovern, Kennedy, Fisher and Silvagni would all get us alright picks. TDK somewhere between 15-30, Mcgovern and Kennedy somewhere between 25-40 each and Fisher and Silvagni probably 35-50ish. That's from a Carlton supporter trying to be as unbiased as possible, some might be higher or lower, but they're just rough estimates.

Those numbers are wildly optimistic.

TDK is probably worth pick 25 at the moment but it's been falling all year. He's also out of contract so you have limited bargaining.

Kennedy has value but you signed him up until the end of 2025 based on his early 2022 form so his contract is likely overvalued on current form. Any team interested will probably not want to pay much for the trade if they need to take on his contract.

Same with Fisher who is contracted for 2 more years.

McGovern is injury prone, late 20s and has a questionable work rate. Someone will take a risk on him but he's worth nothing on the trade table.

I'd keep Silvagni in a cheap wage. But if he's up for trade maybe he's worth a 3rd rounder like you say.

Forget about a top 10 pick from that lot. If somebody took them off your hands including their contracts for pick 20 Carlton would take that.

 

[briztoon]

Clubs have to pony up the market rate for players and provide clubs with a fair and valued pick or player in return. If Carlton have 0 need or interest in a future 2nd they'd be telling Tom either find somewhere else or you'll be going through the PSD, or re-sign at Carlton. How trading has always worked.

That’s ****ing rich coming from a supporter of a team that has priors of ****ing over other clubs, because it didn’t want to pay fair market value for players.

 

[briztoon]

Yes you do, thats been a factor for years. If Christian Petracca asked for a trade to Sydney but Sydney only had a late first rounder the clubs and managers would tell him a deal isn't going to be possible and if he's still adamant on leaving then to find somewhere else.

Shiel years back looked like Essendon wasn't going to pony up 2 firsts for him and thus a late play by Carlton was made which GWS publically acknowledged, Essendon in retaliation stumped up the price but if they weren't going to another deal was entirely possible. Cerra for us a few years back too - Seemed he was leaning towards Melbourne, but they didn't have the currency Freo was demanding so he nominated Carlton.

Clubs have to pony up the market rate for players and provide clubs with a fair and valued pick or player in return. If Carlton have 0 need or interest in a future 2nd they'd be telling Tom either find somewhere else or you'll be going through the PSD, or re-sign at Carlton. How trading has always worked.

You are a team that’s trying for a reset, no opposition team is going pony up for plays that you want to get rid of.

They’ll see the fire sale sign and try and get a player on the cheap, or leave them with you.

 

[briztoon]

We won't need the points next year, we've got a full stack of picks for the 2024 draft. If anything we'll be trying to trade out of it.

You and half the competition.

There’s anywhere between 10 to 15 kids tied to clubs as father sons or northern academies that could be first or second round prospects.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

That’s ****ing rich coming from a supporter of a team that has priors of ****ing over other clubs, because it didn’t want to pay fair market value for players.

Does a 2nd round pick and a 3rd rounder for Jack Martin sound like we tried ****ing other clubs over? They asked for 15 and Martin for 9 and a Future 2nd. That would have been highway robbery.

 

[bradfisher14]

That’s ****ing rich coming from a supporter of a team that has priors of ****ing over other clubs, because it didn’t want to pay fair market value for players.

Cool asterisks mate.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Those numbers are wildly optimistic.

TDK is probably worth pick 25 at the moment but it's been falling all year. He's also out of contract so you have limited bargaining.

Kennedy has value but you signed him up until the end of 2025 based on his early 2022 form so his contract is likely overvalued on current form. Any team interested will probably not want to pay much for the trade if they need to take on his contract.

Same with Fisher who is contracted for 2 more years.

McGovern is injury prone, late 20s and has a questionable work rate. Someone will take a risk on him but he's worth nothing on the trade table.

I'd keep Silvagni in a cheap wage. But if he's up for trade maybe he's worth a 3rd rounder like you say.

Forget about a top 10 pick from that lot. If somebody took them off your hands including their contracts for pick 20 Carlton would take that.

Doesn't sound too far off exactly what I said? Kennedy and TDK our most valuable of the non 'stars' of the team. Kennedy wouldn't be on much, he was delisted and fighting for his career before re signing with the club so likely be on minimal chips.

I have no care whether we even get a pick back for Fisher or Silvagni, I'd happily watch them walk but thats my view of their value in a trade, 35-50. Pretty standard for most players who are proven to be fine at the level but don't have a role in the team and looking for opportunities elsewhere. Acres and Lipinski both in similar positions and went for a pick around 45 each.

And I said, top 10 pick from any of that lot is not a realistic possibility, combining those trades or picks we'd get with our future 1st or a star player would be the only way we'd be getting a 2nd top 10 pick this year.

 

[FB19]

What’s happened with Zac Fisher

16

Zac Fisher

Age

25

Ht

175cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

8.3

3star

HB

7.9

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.0

5star

MG

384.0

5star

D

17.0

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

384.0

5star

D

12.2

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

1.2

2star

T

3.0

5star

this year I always rated him seems to be out of favour. If he were available for a pick in the 50s I think we would be keen and salary no issue of course.

 

[branedotorg]

What’s happened with Zac Fisher this year I always rated him seems to be out of favour. If he were available for a pick in the 50s I think we would be keen and salary no issue of course.

SOLD

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

What’s happened with Zac Fisher this year I always rated him seems to be out of favour. If he were available for a pick in the 50s I think we would be keen and salary no issue of course.

Doesn't chase or tackle, good user of the footy but as a small forward those two are sort of non negotiable.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

What’s happened with Zac Fisher this year I always rated him seems to be out of favour.

Not a true small forward, but not quite a midfielder. Definitely AFL quality but I'm not sure where he fits with us. I wonder if he could be reinvented in a Caleb Daniel role.

Oh and as mentioned elsewhere, absolutely refuses to tackle. He either corrals (poorly) or shifts his body out of the way at the last second and throws an arm out as a token gesture.

 

[Ants]

Williams accepted a six year deal on Band 1 compensation that was reputed to average $900k in 2020. Since then the midfield plan has failed, and he’s will have played 23 games of a possible ~67. Carlton is needing salary cap to retain players and look for more.

Williams has three years left with probably $2.1 - $2.7m of salary. I don’t think they could give him away for free like Scully without paying a big chunk of his salary. But what would Carlton give up to free up the list spot and all the cap space?

 

[Orange crush]

Williams accepted a six year deal on Band 1 compensation that was reputed to average $900k in 2020. Since then the midfield plan has failed, and he’s will have played 23 games of a possible ~67. Carlton is needing salary cap to retain players and look for more.

Williams has three years left with probably $2.1 - $2.7m of salary. I don’t think they could give him away for free like Scully without paying a big chunk of his salary. But what would Carlton give up to free up the list spot and all the cap space?

Would have to be an early 1st+ to cop all that cost

 

[hoffseason gains]

Carlton don’t have the draft picks available for it to make sense to salary dump. Reckon they just have to ride it for a year or two and hope he comes good.

 

[Ants]

Carlton don’t have the draft picks available for it to make sense to salary dump. Reckon they just have to ride it for a year or two and hope he comes good.

They’ve got pick #13.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

They’ve got pick #13.

And we need to fill list spots with the impending departures of half a dozen players. Losing Williams to get cap space and then be in no position to add any players doesn't seem overly logical.

If North wanted band 1 for Mckay I'd happily say u guys take on Williams contract for free and we'll give Mckay that money to get u band 1. We get a KPD which we need and North get an injury prone but talented senior player and a top 3 pick.

 

[Orange crush]

And we need to fill list spots with the impending departures of half a dozen players. Losing Williams to get cap space and then be in no position to add any players doesn't seem overly logical.

If North wanted band 1 for Mckay I'd happily say u guys take on Williams contract for free and we'll give Mckay that money to get u band 1. We get a KPD which we need and North get an injury prone but talented senior player and a top 3 pick.

North will get Band 1 regardless .... nailed on by AFL House

 

[Ants]

And we need to fill list spots with the impending departures of half a dozen players. Losing Williams to get cap space and then be in no position to add any players doesn't seem overly logical.

If North wanted band 1 for Mckay I'd happily say u guys take on Williams contract for free and we'll give Mckay that money to get u band 1. We get a KPD which we need and North get an injury prone but talented senior player and a top 3 pick.

But if you free up the salary you could keep players easier and potentially add a free agent such as Gresham.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

But if you free up the salary you could keep players easier and potentially add a free agent such as Gresham.

What players have we lost?

 

[HarryBeef]

Williams accepted a six year deal on Band 1 compensation that was reputed to average $900k in 2020. Since then the midfield plan has failed, and he’s will have played 23 games of a possible ~67. Carlton is needing salary cap to retain players and look for more.

Williams has three years left with probably $2.1 - $2.7m of salary. I don’t think they could give him away for free like Scully without paying a big chunk of his salary. But what would Carlton give up to free up the list spot and all the cap space?

Retain whom? We're fine thanks, and Williams will be a gun for us next year.