List Mgmt. 2016 Trade and Free Agency Targets Part 1

[Luke_sainters]

I guess we could be more positive by saying what do the following players need to do to hold a spot on the list.

Delaney, I'd hope that we keep him even if he only puts a solid performance in at VFL level. We simply don't have enough depth without him. I'd hope he can play a bit better if he's injury free this season.
Lee. Needs to cement himself a spot on the list. With Fisher and Gilbert approaching retirement he may be valuable backup until some of the other players get there. Can't afford to let himself drop in performance, and if he gets an AFL opportunity he really needs to make a statement.
Holmes , I think he has shown something. As a backup ruck on the rookie list he's better than the likes of Daniel Currie at winning hitouts.
Pierce , He IS improving but i think he's coming from a very low base and needs to keep improving. He's won 30+ hitouts on a handful of occasions, but he also has no impact at all some games. Unlike Holmes he could not battle through an AFL game in the event of problems with Hickey/Longer.
Acres , yeah agree , i was thinking he was from an earlier draft for some reason.
Shenton. Has the difficult task of turning around his disposal. Good luck to him, but ultimately his fate may be determined by the ability of Rice and White.
Ross, He has improved in 2015 , especially in the tail end of the season, but can't afford to slide back to his 2014 level. Hopefully improved fitness will see him win a lot more of the ball.
Membrey. Tricky. He needs to either get more ball or more score. As a lead up forward he's shorter than Blake Acres. Same height as Shenton.
Can he become more of a midfielder? Is he a better option than Lee ( or as versatile )? Lee scored better as a forward in 2013. Can Payne or Coughlan offer enough to push him out, remembering that Goddard and Carlisle also have some forward line abilities.
I think Membrey pure and simply needs to be able to score more than he does now. He's an easy match up for a capable defender, so he needs to become especially good at contested marking to compensate. Probably needs to develop his ground level game and running a bit more. Coming into his 4th season i think he needs to continue to improve or others will get past him.
Curren. Its going to be hard for Tom. He's a player who CAN go out and get more than 10 contested possessions , but he might only get 2. Getting played as a forward probably doesn't help his cause. To keep his spot i think Tom has to make the best of any opportunity he gets to go out and prove that he can perform to his strengths, win contested ball and clearances. ( He's nearly as old as CJ was when we drafted him ).

Murdoch Undoubtedly has talent , but we don't see enough of it. His best VFL games are around 20 touches. AFL around 15. Trouble is he teases us by getting the ball 3 times and kicking a goal. He needs to start finding the ball a lot more and he's probably got to have a good season this year to do it.

Saunders if he could use the ball like Murdoch we'd be laughing. He has no problem getting his hands on it especially in the VFL. Needs to improve, he's not really doing anything better than he was three seasons ago. Either needs to get so much of the ball that we put him in the middle to win the clearances, or needs to find a way of doing something useful with it when he gets it.
Wright Still playing in the back line for Sandringham, ( so assumably not going to get into the midfield) its not a position where we can afford to have poor disposal. As for Shenton he may be at risk of others getting his spot. With Joey, Webster, Savage all able to do some nice stuff in the back , he really needs to tidy it up.

We could be more positive. But thats the nature of the business, its cut throat. But I think Members, Pierce and Ross will play in 2017 for sure.
As for the others well their are a few question marks.

 

[NeXus Nick]

I'll give it a crack...
At the end of 2016 I would do the following....

Hickey - Trade for pick 15 or better.
Riewoldt - Retire
Dempster - Retire
Fisher - Retire

This gives us 4 picks in the National Draft. If we finish 12th on the ladder we would have the following picks....
7, 15 (Hickey trade), 25, 43.

I'd be happy with that.

 

[Phoenix_9]

I'll give it a crack...
At the end of 2016 I would do the following....

Hickey - Trade for pick 15 or better.
Riewoldt - Retire
Dempster - Retire
Fisher - Retire

This gives us 4 picks in the National Draft. If we finish 12th on the ladder we would have the following picks....
7, 15 (Hickey trade), 25, 43.

I'd be happy with that.

25 would be the Pies pick (traded for Freeman).

I for one hope Roo and Dempster go on again, there's definitely going to be lesser players that I would prefer off the main list before those champions.
Also, give Hickey half a season before we start writing him off.
I do agree that this will be Fisher's last season.

 

[Barrels]

The reality of 2016 at this point in time is this;

1. Until at least the halfway point of the season we have no idea who's really in the gun or not. Players sometimes 'click'.

2. Roo will retire when HE says so. He's too competitive to go on too long.

3. Every non-or not absolutely-essential player is a trade prospect for the right price.

4. Fisher has been written off more times than a paddock bomb, but yes he's probably reached the crossroads age-wise.

5. Dempster is still in excellent form and superbly fit. I'd be surprised if he retires, but it's not outside of possible.

6. Writing off ANYBODY at this point is just silly.

7. I will fall in love with some U18 kid and become absolutely insufferable.

That's about it in a nutshell, so IMO let's leave the list management stuff for later and just muse about targets and where they'd fit for us.

 

[Joffaboy]

lol - Hickey not good enough to play in a near bottom team but will get #15

stick to lying about Freemans hamstring

 

[plugger66]

I'll give it a crack...
At the end of 2016 I would do the following....

Hickey - Trade for pick 15 or better.
Riewoldt - Retire
Dempster - Retire
Fisher - Retire

This gives us 4 picks in the National Draft. If we finish 12th on the ladder we would have the following picks....
7, 15 (Hickey trade), 25, 43.

I'd be happy with that.

No need for all 3 to retire and the only way Hickey is worth 15 is if he has a very good year so then why would you get rid of him. There is no way the club wont delist players as they should so we will have many more picks than 4 if those 3 retired. Wont happen. And why pick 7? Has out position already been decided?

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

Talk of Roo hanging them up after this season a little off the mark. Rightly or wrongly the big fella feels that he's got a bit of life left in him yet, he's thinking he's still got a shot at playing deep into finals with these youngsters.

 

[Mindtraveller]

I think we'll only have 1 retirement

 

[SaintsSeptember]

lol - Hickey not good enough to play in a near bottom team but will get #15

stick to lying about Freemans hamstring

You could see what the Tigers coughed up for Hampson.

 

[plugger66]

Talk of Roo hanging them up after this season a little off the mark. Rightly or wrongly the big fella feels that he's got a bit of life left in him yet, he's thinking he's still got a shot at playing deep into finals with these youngsters.

Does he believe in Santa as well? Ideally we would lose Fisher this season and then Dempster and Roo the following year and then Joey at the end of 2018. That would leave only Armo and Gilbert as 30 year olds and even Sam could be well and truly past it by then. It will also mean the likes of the 2nd to 4th year players now are 5th to 7th year players and at or close to their peak. We are still about 8 players short of being a top 4 side but that isn't a problem over the next 3 years. 2FA, a couple of trades and 4 or 4 good draft picks and we are ready to go.

 

[RoundCubic]

We could be more positive. But thats the nature of the business, its cut throat. But I think Members, Pierce and Ross will play in 2017 for sure.
As for the others well their are a few question marks.

Add Acres to that list he ain't going anywhere was given a long term contract for a reason his speed and athleticism just needed an AFL body and was hampered by injury last year, Acres will show signs this year and be very good from next.
Holmes is Longer back up so Hickey could stay as a Ruck/Forward or if both went down. Holmes would be rookied by another club if we let him go, if he started getting more possessions around the ground I wouldn't be surprised if he left us for more opportunity.
We have to keep 1 of Delaney or Lee for depth I think there is a chance Delaney falls off the cliff in terms of effort and performance through the season if left in the VFL but if we need him in the best 22 he will work his ass off to keep the spot and I would not be surprised if both survive.
It will take till the end of the year to see who may go out of Curren, Saunders, Wright, Shenton, Murdoch and maybe Minchington we also have to upgrade or delist Holmes this year and the player we upgrade will not want to go back to the rookie list in 2017 so their will be more then 4 changes at the end of the year to our whole list.

Hard as this year is the end of 2018 will be a nightmare, even if all of Fisher, Dempster, Roo, Joey, Gilbert and Geary retire by then (one of Joey, Gilbert or Geary may not) we would still need to delist or traded at least 6 but probably 8-10 players from our current main list between now and the start of 2019. That means that at the end of 2018 any survivors of the above group are competing with the likes of maybe Eli, Membrey, Ross, Mckenzie, Freeman, Acres, Sinclair, Webster, Savage or Newnes for a spot on our main 40 man list.

By 2019 over half of our best 22 will still be under 25 and our oldest player Armo would be 30 followed by Steven at 28 its why Savage, Weller, Roberton, Carlisle are so important for us as mature bodied players from 2018 also why it would be useful if Lee came good and why we are now starting to look at f/a's but may not be too worried to pick up an f/a til the end of 2017 or 2018 also why Whitfield or a recovered JOM would be perfect for us.

 

[Defacto]

I think we'll only have 1 retirement

I think that too. However judd probably had 1 more season in him. The end can come quick

 

[Mindtraveller]

I think that too. However judd probably had 1 more season in him. The end can come quick

Maybe premature due to the ACL. I just don't want our players going 1 too many like Brad Johnson

 

[Defacto]

Maybe premature due to the ACL. I just don't want our players going 1 too many like Brad Johnson

Yeh thats what i meant. If roo got an acl i think that would be it

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

We could be more positive. But thats the nature of the business, its cut throat. But I think Members, Pierce and Ross will play in 2017 for sure.
As for the others well their are a few question marks.

I agree with you but we will have to keep one of Lee or Delaney as back up. Once Fish and Dempster leave which will be this year and next. We don't have coverage if one or both of Goddard/Carlisle does a knee or loses form....

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

The reality of 2016 at this point in time is this;

1. Until at least the halfway point of the season we have no idea who's really in the gun or not. Players sometimes 'click'.

2. Roo will retire when HE says so. He's too competitive to go on too long.

3. Every non-or not absolutely-essential player is a trade prospect for the right price.

4. Fisher has been written off more times than a paddock bomb, but yes he's probably reached the crossroads age-wise.

5. Dempster is still in excellent form and superbly fit. I'd be surprised if he retires, but it's not outside of possible.

6. Writing off ANYBODY at this point is just silly.

7. I will fall in love with some U18 kid and become absolutely insufferable.

That's about it in a nutshell, so IMO let's leave the list management stuff for later and just muse about targets and where they'd fit for us.

Mate you're insufferable all the time.......whether you're in man-love with some draftee or not!!!!!

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

Talk of Roo hanging them up after this season a little off the mark. Rightly or wrongly the big fella feels that he's got a bit of life left in him yet, he's thinking he's still got a shot at playing deep into finals with these youngsters.

Roo is one of those players whom have earned the right to dictate when he retires.

He has shown enough to play another 2 years on top of this season IMO, (knee permitting of course)...but he would have to be managed and probably play a slightly different role.

I've been told and have read that for some players it's a mind thing - ie they can't handle another gruelling pre season. Others its the body that gives out. You look at those players that play for a long time and the one thing that jumps out to me is that they are meticulous with how they prepare themselves in mind and body. Boomer Harvey and Dustin Fletcher are the obvious two that jump out at me here. I think Roo can be another one. I'd love us to win a premiership in 2018 or 2019 and then see the great man retire a la Shane Crawford!

 

[Phoenix_9]

We 100% should go after Cale Hooker as a Key Position swingman, he's a little older, but should still be good for 3-4years+. He'll be a restricted free agent, but Essendon would probably let him go as their compensation would be pretty high

 

[dewah07]

We 100% should go after Cale Hooker as a Key Position swingman, he's a little older, but should still be good for 3-4years+. He'll be a restricted free agent, but Essendon would probably let him go as their compensation would be pretty high

DFA

 

[Barrels]

We 100% should go after Cale Hooker as a Key Position swingman, he's a little older, but should still be good for 3-4years+. He'll be a restricted free agent, but Essendon would probably let him go as their compensation would be pretty high

IMO, if we're going after anybody from the Asterisks - particularly a KPP - it's Hurley.

Younger, more skilful, more athletic.

 

[dewah07]

I'll give it a crack...
At the end of 2016 I would do the following....

Hickey - Trade for pick 15 or better.
Riewoldt - Retire
Dempster - Retire
Fisher - Retire

This gives us 4 picks in the National Draft. If we finish 12th on the ladder we would have the following picks....
7, 15 (Hickey trade), 25, 43.

I'd be happy with that.

Roos not allowed to retire, drafted to the club when I was 6 and now I'm 22. I don't even know what saints footy is without him and dont intend to find out

 

[RoundCubic]

Roo is one of those players whom have earned the right to dictate when he retires.

He has shown enough to play another 2 years on top of this season IMO, (knee permitting of course)...but he would have to be managed and probably play a slightly different role.

I've been told and have read that for some players it's a mind thing - ie they can't handle another gruelling pre season. Others its the body that gives out. You look at those players that play for a long time and the one thing that jumps out to me is that they are meticulous with how they prepare themselves in mind and body. Boomer Harvey and Dustin Fletcher are the obvious two that jump out at me here. I think Roo can be another one. I'd love us to win a premiership in 2018 or 2019 and then see the great man retire a la Shane Crawford!

Barring injury playing as a floating half forward flanker he will make it to 2018 maybe 2019 when talking about the rebuild he has always said he is here to support the development but wants to hang in as long as possible to get another chance.
Judd took a large part of Carltons salary cap space while Roo will have a 140-150k vet discount and probably be on 500k-600k (Roo would probably getting another couple hundred outside salary cap media payments til he retires) so for maybe 300k Salary Cap space you would be mad not to bring him along as long as possible.
I could foresee a situation where Roo would be managed through the regular season and only really come in the second half and peak in the finals like Brisbane did with Clark Keating in 2002-03

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

Roos not allowed to retire, drafted to the club when I was 6 and now I'm 22. I don't even know what saints footy is without him and dont intend to find out

I'm close to double your age and you do find new players who step up and take the club with them. I had the same thing with Robert Harvey, (we're similar ages), and my idol Trevor Barker and Plugger etc....

You'll be fine - you can always hope Harley requests a transfer from Freo to us?

 

[Phoenix_9]

IMO, if we're going after anybody from the Asterisks - particularly a KPP - it's Hurley.

Younger, more skilful, more athletic.

Yes, Hurley is the dream, but he's not a restricted free agent. They would need to void his contract, Hooker is a legitimate free agent (albeit, restricted). But yes, I would prefer Hurley and share your opinion on his pros.

 

[Barrels]

I'm close to double your age and you do find new players who step up and take the club with them. I had the same thing with Robert Harvey, (we're similar ages), and my idol Trevor Barker and Plugger etc....

You'll be fine - you can always hope Harley requests a transfer from Freo to us?

DFA.